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Off topic discussion; All talk here
Topic Started: Feb 25 2014, 01:46 PM (3,607 Views)
GrenadierSchube

Viceroys
TornadoWatch,Apr 28 2014
09:36 AM
Mutually agreed upon treaty with Austria ----> Not enforceable

Mutually agreed upon treaty with Prussia and Ottos ----> Enforceable

k

nothing has been decided with austria yet. It was agreed between a sub and you…but marauder doesnt agree. dragon will still have to make a ruling on the matter.

as you can see we have a one time sub making game decisions for a player who actually did NOT want a sub, as he told me after.
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Comrade_L1berty

House of Commons
there is a SLIGHT difference between peace terms agreed up on under duress and a mutually agreed NAP. Any nation is essentially forced to give up anything to the victorious party in a war or face utter ruin and perma-occupation. That does not mean the the victors can impose any out-of-game restrictions on the defeated party.
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TornadoWatch
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House of Commons
this is painfully bullshitty. I guess I just have to trust that Dragon will make the right choice...
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GrenadierSchube

Viceroys
in any case tornado has a point and i will remove the enforced aspect in their agreement. Though they are not required to fight each other if they do not want to, in effect a "silent" nap. we will see if it lasts.
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TornadoWatch
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House of Commons
Thank you.

That is (legally) fair, at least.
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eric292

House of Commons
Yeah I am at lunch, I have a post typed at work.

This seems like extreme bullshit.

But i guess I don't know...

Oh never mind cool...

~~~~~~~

Why would treaties ever be GM enforcable?

I know the game is merely an abstraction of real life. But, there is no "GM" in real life enforcing political treaties and shit.

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shampoocat
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House of Commons
Allright gentleman.

I do not know what happened, but when i joined this group i found a fun bunch of people, now i find some bitter jerks trying to screw each other over, this is really disappointing.
The way i see it, the general attitude in this group has been thoroughly unpleasant recently, especially in the last game. While interesting from a ingame standpoint, was not a lot of fun for me due to the general mood.
At this point i do not believe that in and outgame fights can be considered separate things anymore, this is inacceptable! It cannot be that declaring war on some one will cause them to stop talking to me.

And while i will not comment on the recent issues about the GM enforced treaties i have to say i am very disappointed in the way the GM´s handle this situation.
I am furthermore very disappointed in how some of the GM´s have displayed a total lack of any ability to keep this group together and create a fun experience for every one involved, i had expected better.

Truth being told, i am growing tired of EU4 for a while now, i mostly kept playing it because of you guys.
I will however not stick around in a community that i do not feel welcome in and i will not continue playing a game i do not enjoy.

Therefore i resign from this game, whether i will join any future games or not i cannot tell at this time.

Shampoo over and out.
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TornadoWatch
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House of Commons
Shampoo kinda has a point.
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GrenadierSchube

Viceroys
shampoocat,Apr 28 2014
10:44 AM
Allright gentleman.

I do not know what happened, but when i joined this group i found a fun bunch of people, now i find some bitter jerks trying to screw each other over, this is really disappointing.
The way i see it, the general attitude in this group has been thoroughly unpleasant recently, especially in the last game. While interesting from a ingame standpoint, was not a lot of fun for me due to the general mood.
At this point i do not believe that in and outgame fights can be considered separate things anymore, this is inacceptable! It cannot be that declaring war on some one will cause them to stop talking to me.

And while i will not comment on the recent issues about the GM enforced treaties i have to say i am very disappointed in the way the GM´s handle this situation.
I am furthermore very disappointed in how some of the GM´s have displayed a total lack of any ability to keep this group together and create a fun experience for every one involved, i had expected better.

Truth being told, i am growing tired of EU4 for a while now, i mostly kept playing it because of you guys.
I will however not stick around in a community that i do not feel welcome in and i will not continue playing a game i do not enjoy.

Therefore i resign from this game, whether  i will join any future games or not i cannot tell at this time.

Shampoo over and out.

?

can you explain how I have failed as a gm? I rescended on the enforced peace deal as i pointed out tornado was right.

the deal with the sub taking someones country over and making deals is a complicated matter, and in all honesty I am leaning towards making marauder stay out as it would be a little messed up as it has been pointed out that you all could of done a great deal worse to him.


can i lie that i am a bit bitter? no. I was and still am. It is not fun getting 5v1ed but hey I still came back. You all bragged about bloodying me up and of course I want revenge.

all in all this will probably be the final EU4 game a lot of us are in, might as well finish, i came close to quiting to finish studying but others were right it would be bad form to leave
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eric292

House of Commons
Honestly I feel for Shampoo.

But Shampoo, we can only live and learn.

if you don't enjoy EU IV that's one thing.

But as a group, most of us, 90%+ of us; want the group to remain together and enjoy more fun.

~~~~~~

That being said, we use what happened in this game to help fortify ground rules for the future.

And make sure to look at the END RESULT of these discussions, I don't believe at this point there are any GM enforced things, everything is player based.

I know a lot of us get really upset when bad things happen to us in game, but I'd ask an example of where the bad blood lasted longer than a session or two; as well as, an example of it happening to or by more than one to three people.

~~~~~~

Lastly, I'm all super addicted right now and I've honestly read a lot of the Paradox MP threads.

This place is tame compared to some of the garbage that's out there.
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TornadoWatch
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House of Commons
I don't agree with the idea that the GMing has been bad.

Things do get heated, sometimes a bit too heated...

Me, I explain it as follows; I have two personas. TornadoWatch, and the King of Sweden.

TornadoWatch is generally an OK guy.

The King of Sweden is evil, vindictive, aggressive, and highly jingoistic.

Basically - We gotta make sure we separate "IC and OOC" (in character and out of character) hate

I would like to apologize for any time I have gone too far in this regard. I like you guys OOCly.
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GrenadierSchube

Viceroys
I agree with you there tornado, there is the King of England and Gren

Over the past two weeks i was a little annoyed and practically non existent on the forums/steam since i HAVE been doing projects and hw in all my spare time. I talked to mark barely and comrade on and off at the wee hours in the morning but for the most part just tooooo busy.

So the line may have been crossed where i took it too far when I shouldnt of had, but in the end you all are pretty enjoyable fun people.

King of England just hates every1 except a few.

and as I said before and have talked with luke, it does make sense to keep marauder from rejoining as he was fully occupied basically and you all could of forced peace him instead of giving him a really good deal without him gaining the -3 stability and taking of more land.

I was a bit biased which is why I had to hear from both co-gms before any decision was fully made. But at the moment I am for keeping marauder out of the current war as it would not be fair in the slightest.

Edit: Mostly bitter due to the fact I was lulled into a false sense of friendship and mutual respect between nations, only to have all of the parties showing kindness betray and backstab me. excuse me for being bitter but any1 in my position would be, probably would of handled it differently than I did, but i do take betrayal harshly.
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goro

House of Commons
What bad blood are they talking about??
I got raped by my neighbours 3 or 4 times :P.I still talk to them and i'm even friends with some of them.

GM ing has been alright.There was a rash decision previously but that was fixed fast.I think the problem lies with the big rivalry between some of the eastern nations basically sweden and prussia that always brings more people in.They have been enemies almost from start.Heated discussions should be expected in such late years and when so much is at stake.I don't see how the game is not fun anymore.It's just that the stakes are much higher now.

And i agree with eric.I've seen and played in other paradox forum mp games and this forum is like a kindergarten compared to that.
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eric292

House of Commons
Yeah exactly,

I'm tempted to just start randomly making rash crazy statements just so this drama keeps up!

THis is when shit gets good! Love the activity!
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Marquis_de_Sade
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House of Commons
Hmm I think this past session may be the last for me.

Due to a flight change, I won't be landing in NY until noon on Saturday, which is after our game starts, and I'll take me at least an hour to get to the hotel from there.

The next two weekends after that, I'll be in Brazil and Peru on vacation with friends, so I won't be able to play.

:(

It was quite fun playing, and I was hoping to get at least one more session squeezed in before my vacation, but I didn't expect this game to last so long, haha.

So, if someone wants to permanently take over France for me, feel free to! BTW, technically my country is still owed a colony in Canada (to be named Quebec).

While this might be my last commitment to play a 4 hour game on a weekly basis, I'll still be online a lot to play on an ad hoc basis.

As for the treaty with Austria, we were lenient on him (just two provinces) as it was conditional on him not rejoining the war. In lieu of that, we would've just kept his country under occupation while the war continued with Prussia, or, in a much harsher peace deal, we could've created buffer states along the Rhine and the Alps, which would've been 8-10 provinces.
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eric292

House of Commons
I guarantee you're doing this, but wanted to make sure.

When you say you're going to land in NY at noon, you would still have five hours to make it.

Game starts at 5pm EST (well, for me) and NY is EST.

Even if you mean noon PST, that still gives you three hours?

~~~~

In the event that he cannot simply make it, what is protocol in this situation?
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GrenadierSchube

Viceroys
Well contingency plan would call to see if any of the subs we have had are interested in taking over, if not then we can also maybe ask some of the small nations to switch to the larger more important ones *eyes eric and shampoo*
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Marquis_de_Sade
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House of Commons
Ah yeah, that's right, somehow I totally screwed up that timing, added three extra hours.

Yeah, I think I land noon EST. I'll text Gren with updates on Saturday, in case I run into delays, but I should be able to make it then, if there's no trouble with wifi or anything.
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GrenadierSchube

Viceroys
Also with regards to Austria rejoining, I talked to marauder and he will abide by the terms, and stay neutral for the duration of the conflict.

This war is definitely farm from over it seems now with the ottoman withdrawal.
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Lukesea

Viceroys
Marquis_de_Sade,Apr 28 2014
01:39 PM
Ah yeah, that's right, somehow I totally screwed up that timing, added three extra hours.

Yeah, I think I land noon EST. I'll text Gren with updates on Saturday, in case I run into delays, but I should be able to make it then, if there's no trouble with wifi or anything.

If there is any convenient wifi problems.. i will not be impressed sir, it almost sounded like you were setting yourself up
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Marquis_de_Sade
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Given the trouble of people connecting to Paradox games, and the shitty wifi associated with hotels, just wanted to make sure there is a possible sub if necessary, given the importance of France.

Plus, since I have a MBP Retina, there's no Ethernet port, so you have to use wifi. I may try to set-up at my work's NY office and play using a computer there though, since now that I think about it, I really don't want to bring my laptop on a 2 week trip through South America and risk having it stolen.
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Dragonknight2

Viceroys
After talking with King, and considering both sides, I am going to come down on preventing Marauder from joining this war (and only this war). Whilst I wouldn't hold perms to medium-longer term deals negotiated, in this case a light peace deal was clearly exchanged for a separate peace for this war. It would be inequitable for the imposing side to have given up those gains and not receive a peaceful lull in the fighting, and IMO this outweighs the restrictions on Marauder.

This has a caveat though, as soon as peace is declared between Prussia and Friends (OE apparently already peaces), Austria is free to do as he pleases.



The forum wars have really gotten out of hand, try to get in a friendly sort of competition "imma roll that noob Mughuls guy" rather than super/angry competitive "*insert long rant on GM/how this player is personally a dick etc".
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Naveed

House of Lords
Dragonknight2,Apr 29 2014
02:46 AM
The forum wars have really gotten out of hand, try to get in a friendly sort of competition "imma roll that noob Mughuls guy" rather than super/angry competitive "*insert long rant on GM/how this player is personally a dick etc".


:o
Is it still okay to talk about ethnically cleansing all the Manchu people?
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Dragonknight2

Viceroys
Naveed,Apr 29 2014
05:39 AM
Dragonknight2,Apr 29 2014
02:46 AM
The forum wars have really gotten out of hand, try to get in a friendly sort of competition "imma roll that noob Mughuls guy" rather than super/angry competitive "*insert long rant on GM/how this player is personally a dick etc".


:o
Is it still okay to talk about ethnically cleansing all the Manchu people?

Well since the the whole idea of that being possible is laughable, yes :lol:
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eric292

House of Commons
Dragon, while I was not at all bias on any decision being made.

I want to applaud your GMing ability here. You've restored almost all of my faith in you being a neutral arbitrator.

(Got shattered a little bit when I heard you gave the UK more MP than USSR ;-P)

Tee hee ;-P

~~~~~~~~~

ON TO THE NEXT SESSION!!!!!!!!!!!
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GrenadierSchube

Viceroys
3 gm's are better than one ;)
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ileonu
Member Avatar

House of Commons
I'm gonna be there to play as Andorr... i mean Spain... so in case of EXTREME URGENCY i can mess Fran... i mean play as France....

Most of the fun i get from EU4 is seeing others have fun while i have my fair share to... seeing people unhappy or being personal about ingame shit takes a big chunk of that fun....=(
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eric292

House of Commons
Hey ileonu,

Cool man, glad to hear it.

I didn't do what we discussed, so Spain is for sure still around.

But yeah I think you'd be much better versed at being France than I.

Let me know if you want to discuss anything. Looks like this means I have to double time it on finding a laptop to bring with me on vacation or finding a sub for me :(

Regards,

Portugal

EDIT:

W00t! I got a (borrowed) laptop, so I'll be able to play while completely wasted in Meh-eii-coo!

Montezuma's Revenge HERE I COME
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GrenadierSchube

Viceroys
It appears shampoo will not be coming back, he is in a need for a break from eu4.

if anyone knows of a player interested in joining as the dutch get them the mod and let me know!
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eric292

House of Commons
Ugh....

Is this my fault?

I don't get what's or who's been so bitter and such.

I am sorry if I've offended anyone else aside from being vulgar towards ileonu & marquis... (which I apologized a bunch for, and it wasn't personal to them)

Let me know if that's the case...

I hope you come back Shampoo, I always enjoyed your comments, they were few and far in between, but I always knew you were around!

I think we need a big old group hug!!!!
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