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Topic Started: Jul 18 2014, 09:48 AM (2,822 Views)
Warlord_Murphy

House of Commons
Personally, I'm sticking around for now, because I don't want to be that guy who quits all the time, but one more session like that, with all the bullshit it had and I think a lot of people will leave, including myself.
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Guren275
Member Avatar

House of Commons
Main problem is that only 4 years went by.
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Warlord_Murphy

House of Commons
"An example of non-specific prohibition is what just happened today. What happened today is under the provision "does mean that should one sign they may never go to war over any African territory again with another signer." Looking at it, it has occurred to me that there is alternative reasonable meaning as to this phrase, from the point of view of NGF, for example. It is completely reasonable for NGF, for example, to think that the phrase means he is allowed to join the war because he is going to war against Belgian wargoal, not African wargoal. As such meaning is reasonable, it will be upheld over the asserted meaning [that NGF is not allowed to join in the war].

If the treaty drafter wanted to prevent NGF from joining, he could've and should've worded it as "signer cannot join in a war where there is an African wargoal involved". This is very specific and there is no alternative reasonable meaning as to what this could've or should've meant.

So, rule of thumb is: If you are a treaty drafter and you want what you write to mean what you mean, always ask yourself whether there is an alternative reasonable meaning as to what you wrote. If there is, what you wanted it to mean will not be used. If there is not, it will be used."

Which you're saying now that the war is over, and while that war was being planned, and ongoing, you said differently. Here's the thing about being a GM, you're supposed to make rulings quickly and in a timely fashion, i.e. less than ten minutes and while they're still relevant. Not several hours after they're relevant.

In my "reasonable meaning" the African treaty doesn't apply at all to wargoals outside of Africa. The war shouldn't have happened at all. And this whole interpretation thing is just going to lead to more all session arguments.

The way it should go is if there's ambiguity in a treaty, the players who signed should work out what was meant. If they can't, the GM makes a decision that stands from then on.
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Linny

House of Lords
Warlord_Murphy,Sep 7 2014
03:17 PM
Which you're saying now that the war is over, and while that war was being planned, and ongoing, you said differently. Here's the thing about being a GM, you're supposed to make rulings quickly and in a timely fashion, i.e. less than ten minutes and while they're still relevant. Not several hours after they're relevant.

In my "reasonable meaning" the African treaty doesn't apply at all to wargoals outside of Africa. The war shouldn't have happened at all. And this whole interpretation thing is just going to lead to more all session arguments.

The way it should go is if there's ambiguity in a treaty, the players who signed should work out what was meant. If they can't, the GM makes a decision that stands from then on.

You are correct. I did make a ruling in game which is an error in judgment. As a GM, as any GM, i am not perfect and do make errors. I am trying to remedy the situation to make sure we do not have such issue for future sessions by clearly stating the rule that i will adhere to [alternative reasonable meaning] when interpreting vague phrases in treaties.

What you have proposed is not as different from the rule that i have laid out.
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Markoni1100
Member Avatar

House of Commons
I mean, the game is kinda boring now, people are gonna make giant countries,the coalitions are unbalanced.
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Linny

House of Lords
Markoni1100,Sep 8 2014
11:56 AM
I mean, the game is kinda boring now, people are gonna make giant countries,the coalitions are unbalanced.

Players' interests change due to events and their alignments change as a result. I don't think it is correct to say there are permanent blocs atm. There are still plenty of time and opportunities for such changes, especially as colonization begins.
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Gaku
Member Avatar

House of Commons
Yeah, how about someone allying with Argentina to form a new bloc. B)
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Warlord_Murphy

House of Commons
Markoni1100,Sep 8 2014
08:56 AM
I mean, the game is kinda boring now, people are gonna make giant countries,the coalitions are unbalanced.

Diplomacy isn't a fixed thing, I think it's a little early to be saying that coalitions are fixed. For one USA, Mexico, Canada and Japan still haven't reached the point where they can affect Europe, but they will eventually. We've got tensions in Northern Italy, We've got tensions on the Rhine, We've got tensions in the Americas, We've got tensions in the East Indies , We've got tensions in Africa and colonization hasn't even started.

So right now, things are calm, but I think it's the calm before a storm.
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downwiththestars

House of Commons
Markoni1100,Sep 9 2014
03:56 AM
I mean, the game is kinda boring now, people are gonna make giant countries,the coalitions are unbalanced.

Maybe if you didn't want to unbalance the coalitions, you shouldn't have done everything you could to antagonize everyone.
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StylishG33k
Member Avatar

House of Commons
Please for the love of god Linny. Don't delete treaties anymore. I went to go renew a treaty between me and Mexico since Netherlands left and now I can't because it's gone.

I'd really appreciate it if this practice was eliminated.
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Warlord_Murphy

House of Commons
StylishG33k,Sep 8 2014
04:06 PM
Please for the love of god Linny. Don't delete treaties anymore. I went to go renew a treaty between me and Mexico since Netherlands left and now I can't because it's gone.

I'd really appreciate it if this practice was eliminated.

Here Here, I think deleting treaties is a bad idea, because it's the sort of thing one might want to refer back to. We've already seen the trouble the lack of such a record can cause.
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Linny

House of Lords
Lol ok.
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HeavyWeather918

House of Commons
I will not be present for Saturday's game. I have been playing as Baroda and do not expect protection.
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Kristian

House of Commons
I need an African port to be able to colonize :BIGER1:
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TheDerpyBeagle
Member Avatar

House of Commons
Kristian,Sep 12 2014
10:02 AM
I need an African port to be able to colonize :BIGER1:

I'd think that would be your responsibility to get for yourself... :P
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Warlord_Murphy

House of Commons
The Yanks grabbed a bunch of tiny offshore Islands from the Portugese, you could buy one of those. Anyway, you still have those bits of Sokoto since old NL didn't sign.
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Guren275
Member Avatar

House of Commons
I won't be playing this game any more, due to how little time passed less session.
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Robieman
Who Bitch Dis
House of Commons
gurrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeen, i just lost a lot of respect for you man :/
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Otto of England
The Free State of Kiev
Viceroys
Guren275,Sep 13 2014
04:00 PM
I won't be playing this game any more, due to how little time passed less session.

Dude, why you leave so late :(.
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Warlord_Murphy

House of Commons
Guren275,Sep 13 2014
01:00 PM
I won't be playing this game any more, due to how little time passed less session.

And you wait till the last second to do this?
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TheDerpyBeagle
Member Avatar

House of Commons
Wait, how many years did you guys get through?

EDIT: Neeeevermind, I get it now.
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Warlord_Murphy

House of Commons
I'd like to point out that the rules say it is illegal to use military access with a neutral country to attack a country you are at war with. NGF and Austria don't seem aware of this, they haven't violated it yet, but I feel it should be stated just in case.
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Markoni1100
Member Avatar

House of Commons
Warlord_Murphy,Sep 14 2014
05:36 PM
I'd like to point out that the rules say it is illegal to use military access with a neutral country to attack a country you are at war with. NGF and Austria don't seem aware of this, they haven't violated it yet, but I feel it should be stated just in case.

Fuck off, UK attacked me throught Ottomans which are neutral. So piss off shithead.
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Markoni1100
Member Avatar

House of Commons
Warlord_Murphy,Sep 14 2014
05:36 PM
I'd like to point out that the rules say it is illegal to use military access with a neutral country to attack a country you are at war with. NGF and Austria don't seem aware of this, they haven't violated it yet, but I feel it should be stated just in case.

And stop trying to use rules to make us lose stuff, you did the exact same thing so stop being a victim here.
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Warlord_Murphy

House of Commons
Why don't you stop being a whiny petulant little git? I was pointing out a rule you're seemed to be ignorant of when you were cackling about "punishing" Netherlands after you lost a crisis war. A war that you lost because you were way too busy whining about how unfair a crisis war is to actually fight the damn thing.

I've never attacked anyone through neutral territory, so that's a lie, and I can't recall an occasion when UK did, and if he did, then you should've reported it and made a screenshot, though your kind has a habit of having those and then losing them I hear. The accusation that I "use rules to make us lose stuff" is patently absurd, if you break a rule, guess what, you don't get what you gained from cheating. Unlike you I've never tried to make rules up.

You're openly antagonistic to other players except your buddies from another forum, you refuse to make any meaningful participation in forum diplomacy or even stay in character for what you do post, you try to pull out of a treaty because hours later you change your mind about it, you tried to force a new player into a bullshit treaty, then got pissy when he pulled out of it (Your fault for not adding penalties), you posted in my embassy as an excuse to start a row over OOC events, you drove another player to hysteric screaming, postgame you kept jumping into another alliances discussion channel for the express purpose of trolling and Otto had to remove you 5 times, in defeat you're an insufferable whiner, in victory a strutting Cockerel. And then you wonder why you end up with a 3 continent spanning coalition against your side?
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Fussiler1

House of Commons
Oof, such drama. I'd like to interject though; Dislike probably helped form a coalition but let's be honest here, it's pretty unlikely you guys would've joined a war against Robie, even if you loved Markoni.

Lastly, I don't think he accused you specifically of breaking the rules, I think he meant your side in general, with Robie attacking Serbia from Ottoman territory or something.
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Otto of England
The Free State of Kiev
Viceroys
Look, this whining and bitching is really irritating me, we are here to play Victoria, for the most part a friendly game. So, while we may fight each other, we all know this isn't because people are being malicious but, that it's the best action for the country. The attitude and general mood here though is not what I want in a game I'm participating in and is shared by many other players, for us it is significantly affecting the game because we are not here to be 'trolled' or insulted, or have our time filled with people screaming and whining. So, from now on each person will get one warning from me before I will prosecute you to the full extent of my TS privileges until you stop being a child. I want to play Victoria not yell at random people I barely know.

This warning extents only to TS sever, not to Linny's game and if Linny feels you should leave or stay is not in anyway effected by myself.
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Markoni1100
Member Avatar

House of Commons
Warlord_Murphy,Sep 15 2014
05:55 AM
Why don't you stop being a whiny petulant little git? I was pointing out a rule you're seemed to be ignorant of when you were cackling about "punishing" Netherlands after you lost a crisis war. A war that you lost because you were way too busy whining about how unfair a crisis war is to actually fight the damn thing.

I've never attacked anyone through neutral territory, so that's a lie, and I can't recall an occasion when UK did, and if he did, then you should've reported it and made a screenshot, though your kind has a habit of having those and then losing them I hear. The accusation that I "use rules to make us lose stuff" is patently absurd, if you break a rule, guess what, you don't get what you gained from cheating. Unlike you I've never tried to make rules up.

You're openly antagonistic to other players except your buddies from another forum, you refuse to make any meaningful participation in forum diplomacy or even stay in character for what you do post, you try to pull out of a treaty because hours later you change your mind about it, you tried to force a new player into a bullshit treaty, then got pissy when he pulled out of it (Your fault for not adding penalties), you posted in my embassy as an excuse to start a row over OOC events, you drove another player to hysteric screaming, postgame you kept jumping into another alliances discussion channel for the express purpose of trolling and Otto had to remove you 5 times, in defeat you're an insufferable whiner, in victory a strutting Cockerel. And then you wonder why you end up with a 3 continent spanning coalition against your side?

Oh boy,we got a problem here boys. This guy is over the limit of retardness. First of all ask Robie or Ottomans. He invaded Croatia throught Ottomans in the crisis war. Another thing is i couldnt have won that war when you outnumbered me and attacked me from 2 sides. And if you think you're that good at Viki2. Show it by winning a war that's actually balanced,not UK,France,Italy and Netherlands attacking Austria. So please be realistic here idiot and stop thinking you're good at the game. My buddies from another forum lel, okay but you were the one who started arguements with me and i openly dont like you because you are arrogant as hell. The point here is you are unrealistic and an arrogant douche. And if you think im good with my buddies from another forum, same goes for you. So please if you can kindly piss off. And about UK not breaking that rule, if Robie says he didnt do it, he is obviously lying.
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Markoni1100
Member Avatar

House of Commons
Otto of England,Sep 15 2014
01:27 PM
Look, this whining and bitching is really irritating me, we are here to play Victoria, for the most part a friendly game. So, while we may fight each other, we all know this isn't because people are being malicious but, that it's the best action for the country. The attitude and general mood here though is not what I want in a game I'm participating in and is shared by many other players, for us it is significantly affecting the game because we are not here to be 'trolled' or insulted, or have our time filled with people screaming and whining. So, from now on each person will get one warning from me before I will prosecute you to the full extent of my TS privileges until you stop being a child. I want to play Victoria not yell at random people I barely know.

This warning extents only to TS sever, not to Linny's game and if Linny feels you should leave or stay is not in anyway effected by myself.

You cant have a damn friendly game when people are making it personal.
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Otto of England
The Free State of Kiev
Viceroys
Markoni1100,Sep 15 2014
04:59 PM
Otto of England,Sep 15 2014
01:27 PM
Look, this whining and bitching is really irritating me, we are here to play Victoria, for the most part a friendly game. So, while we may fight each other, we all know this isn't because people are being malicious but, that it's the best action for the country. The attitude and general mood here though is not what I want in a game I'm participating in and is shared by many other players, for us it is significantly affecting the game because we are not here to be 'trolled' or insulted, or have our time filled with people screaming and whining. So, from now on each person will get one warning from me before I will prosecute you to the full extent of my TS privileges until you stop being a child. I want to play Victoria not yell at random people I barely know.

This warning extents only to TS sever, not to Linny's game and if Linny feels you should leave or stay is not in anyway effected by myself.

You cant have a damn friendly game when people are making it personal.

I'm telling people to stop making it personal. I don't want to listen to it,
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