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Topic Started: Jul 18 2014, 09:48 AM (2,821 Views)
Warlord_Murphy

House of Commons
Markoni, you are the one here who is resorting to foul language and calling another player "over the limit of retardness" (whatever that means), merely for issuing a public reminder of very clear rules, if anyone is making it personal, it's you. I don't know about whatever you claim happened in croatia, but since you didn't report it or screenshot it, no one has any way of knowing if a violation occurred. That's not my fault

I've never claimed I was better than anyone else at the game, I've performed to the best of my modest abilities as a player who is new to the multiplayer game. And no, I'm not going to fight wars as a ritualized honour duel, that's totally absurd, counter productive and against the spirit of both game mechanics and the intentions of the GM. If I'm in a war I'm going to push every legal advantage I can, that's the nature of the game, I don't hold back, and I don't expect my foes to either. If you choose to neglect diplomacy, you deal with the fallout.

It's absurd to claim I'm in with my buddies from another forum, because anyone I've met, I've met for the first time this game. You can go ahead and not like me, because I'm yet to meet a single player that has a positive opinion of you.
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Slayzer
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House of Commons
Quote:
 
though your kind has a habit of having those and then losing them I hear


What's this supposed to mean? You would be out of this community for good if I haven't lost parts of the data from my old HD. I firmly believe Linny deleted the treaty to protect you from getting into some kind of troubles due to EDITING it after both parties have signed. This was something I warned Linny about before my last session, and from my point of view it's pretty obvious that Linny wanted to protect you by removing any possible evidences thus the valid and ongoing treaty was deleted.

I've been taking screenshots of every treaty I signed since Crimdal scammed me in one of the previous games by doing exactly the same thing. Furthermore you will notice that every valid and ongoing treaty in World in Rev. game is locked the moment it has been signed by both parties for this exact reason.

Linny knows very well what was the content of the treaty and that it was perfectly valid for the session, for some reason he chose to pretend "not to remember well", even though I linked it 3 days before that very session and we had quite a chat about it. This is the reason I won't play his games anymore.

You are very lucky that I wasn't able to restore everything from my old hard drive, otherwise this would go straight to Kristjan. The only remaining proof of the treaty's existence is this, if someone can somehow use it to restore it I would be very grateful, no one likes cheaters.

[spoiler=Picture.]Posted Image[/spoiler]
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Slayzer
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House of Commons
As of Markoni, I doubt anyone on our community likes him, in fact he reached the last warning last Saturday.
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Warlord_Murphy

House of Commons
And now we have someone who previously left the game coming in to make allegations of cheating by the GM on behalf of someone he barely knows. You're essentially claiming that the GM decided to blatantly cheat on behalf of a new player in a manner that an admin can easily see (since on any board with good security all moderator action is logged centrally), to assist him in carrying out a war that ultimately had minor gains. And you're making these allegations based on Google, whose bot crawls don't happen in real time. Further more you're claiming collusion in this supposed conspiracy on my part, which I can tell you is bullshit. As a new player I have no prior knowledge of Linny's bad habit of deleting expired treaties. And it's something I'm strongly against for reasons of record keeping. Thus it's totally unfair of you to say I should be banned even if some impropriety or mistake happened on linny's part, since no reasonable assumption of collusion exists.
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Slayzer
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House of Commons
Things are very simple:

1. You edited the treaty after we both signed it. (For which you should be banned)
2. When I pointed out this to Linny, he said after checking the treaty that he couldn't prove it was edited.
3. The treaty got deleted shortly before the session.
4. Linny claimed he didn't remember what the treaty contained.

So that's the only logical assumption.
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Warlord_Murphy

House of Commons
1. I didn't edit that treaty. The only treaty I've ever edited was the Alliance between France and GB, that was because GB publically requested I add a NAP before he signed it, which I did through editing, and then he signed.

2. I distinctly remember that it wasn't resigned because your demands were unreasonable and Brazil advised me I gained nothing from continuing it.

3. Even if Linny did screw up and delete a valid treaty, it's illogical to assume malice over human error, particularly since Linny admits the possibility that a mistake could have been made.

4. Linny made a habit of deleting expired treaties, as you admit, it's logical to assume that such an ill advised habit would eventually lead to this sort of dispute.

4. Even if malice could be proved on Linny's part, it's still unfair to assume I actively colluded in it.

Slayzer, I retract that remark in fact, it's totally unfair to me to assume malice on your part while asking you to assume my innocence. Recognise that that was said in the heat of an argument with a third party. If you wish to talk about this further could we please take it to steam?
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Linny

House of Lords
Robie attacking from Ottoman soil is valid because Ottoman is a human player. Players can attack through other players territories even if the defender doesn't have similar access.

I am frankly getting tired of all this yelling and butthurting about losing or having an alliance arrayed against you. I am also equally tired of similar actions for different reasons. I don't really have free time to dedicate to this game [especially since i found soccer group <3] but i am doing so for a good fun competitive friendly vicky2 game, not to hear people yell and scream for 4 hours.

Slayzer, I seriously don't know what you are talking. You did talk to me regarding Warlord possibly having changed the terms of the treaty and i said i have no proof of it. That was the extent of the convo, two lines [your allegation and my reply] possibly 3 lines at most. There was no "quite a chat" and you did not provide me with proof by screenshot [as you claim that you take] at that time.

How or why would i know that the treaty was valid or it's terms? Do you think i memorize every terms written on forum? All i did was read the treaty to see expiration, then delete them accordingly. There is a chance of mistake and i apologize if there was any.

Just exactly why would I care about Warlord so much that I would allow him to violate the rules and actually conceal it for him? Especially for something as insignificant as freeing Belgium and Egypt? Do you know how hard I negotiated with him regarding treaties? Do you even know how heated the convo between me and Robie got over whether he's allowed to do it right before the attack on you? You think that would've happened if i was colluded with them to take Belgium or Egypt from you? lol please.

I think you are a good member of the community and the fact that robie can do whatever he likes to you in this game, being the UK, has got the better of you.
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TheDerpyBeagle
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House of Commons
The rules should really be changed then. You shouldn't be able to attack through any neutral country, player or not. Also, if anyone could send me a copy of the save later on Steam, it would be appreciated.
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Robieman
Who Bitch Dis
House of Commons
Just got around to reading all of this, first of all Warlord show some respect to your fellow players, your not the GM and unless something is directly affecting you its normally best to let the GM handle it.
Also, although linny already said it, i most definitely did use ottoman soil to advance into Austrian soil because its perfectly legal and reasonably so (although i do think that if the ottomans end up giving me access they also have to give Austria access so i cant just safe harbor my troops their, nevertheless legal)

people in general, please don't make situations worse unless you have something important to add to the convo. its best in times like these to keep your head down and know the GM will handle any serious complaints
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StylishG33k
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House of Commons
To be clear, I am not quitting the game. I just had a really bad week and kind of blew up towards the end. I apologize for my behavior. While I royally hate Robie with the white passion of 1000 suns, I love the ruthless way he plays his country. I'm not a sore loser, I enjoy the games for what they are. It's just this session I really was looking forward to a nice peaceful session and it kind of all got fucked up.

Again, it doesn't excuse my reaction to it all, but I was just really fed up with that week. No, I'm not better. I'm still stressed, homeless, and angry. But I'll try and leave that out of the game.
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Linny

House of Lords
StylishG33k,Sep 15 2014
11:51 PM
To be clear, I am not quitting the game. I just had a really bad week and kind of blew up towards the end. I apologize for my behavior. While I royally hate Robie with the white passion of 1000 suns, I love the ruthless way he plays his country. I'm not a sore loser, I enjoy the games for what they are. It's just this session I really was looking forward to a nice peaceful session and it kind of all got fucked up.

Again, it doesn't excuse my reaction to it all, but I was just really fed up with that week. No, I'm not better. I'm still stressed, homeless, and angry. But I'll try and leave that out of the game.

Nah you are good in my books, Stylish lol. I understand the feeling as i am going through the personal issues. We just have to learn to not take it so serious and realize it is just a game.
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Markoni1100
Member Avatar

House of Commons
Warlord_Murphy,Sep 15 2014
02:27 PM
Markoni, you are the one here who is resorting to foul language and calling another player "over the limit of retardness" (whatever that means), merely for issuing a public reminder of very clear rules, if anyone is making it personal, it's you. I don't know about whatever you claim happened in croatia, but since you didn't report it or screenshot it, no one has any way of knowing if a violation occurred. That's not my fault

I've never claimed I was better than anyone else at the game, I've performed to the best of my modest abilities as a player who is new to the multiplayer game. And no, I'm not going to fight wars as a ritualized honour duel, that's totally absurd, counter productive and against the spirit of both game mechanics and the intentions of the GM. If I'm in a war I'm going to push every legal advantage I can, that's the nature of the game, I don't hold back, and I don't expect my foes to either. If you choose to neglect diplomacy, you deal with the fallout.

It's absurd to claim I'm in with my buddies from another forum, because anyone I've met, I've met for the first time this game. You can go ahead and not like me, because I'm yet to meet a single player that has a positive opinion of you.

Jesus, okay you dont know what that means, lets move on. I totally agree with Slayzer. I myself saw that treaty you made, cause i always check treaties when i get on the forum at least once a day. And another thing is if Linny did a *human* error as you call it, then it isnt fair for Slayzer who got influenced by that and basically made him rage quit. And please Warlord enlighten me when did i move throught neutral territory which wasnt a goddamn player? If it's valid for Robie to move through players, it's valid for us too. And the thing is if you are talking about Baden,Bavaria or Wurtemburg, they are all occupied by NGF which i can make through (even if i didnt) and NGF can move through there because they are at war with them. I dont get you Warlord, trying to mess up someones game by saying they did something when they didnt do it. Im fine with Robie moving through Ottomans if it's legal, well if i knew that then i would be allowed to move through Ottomans aswell, but Ottomans didnt give me acess,no? And im fine with Robie, i know he is the UK and he is just using their power to fuck over everyone which is fine. But Warlord you are really being annoying by saying i broke a rule when i didnt, if i broke that rule please tell me when?
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emirhasa

House of Commons
StylishG33k,Sep 15 2014
08:51 PM
To be clear, I am not quitting the game. I just had a really bad week and kind of blew up towards the end. I apologize for my behavior. While I royally hate Robie with the white passion of 1000 suns, I love the ruthless way he plays his country. I'm not a sore loser, I enjoy the games for what they are. It's just this session I really was looking forward to a nice peaceful session and it kind of all got fucked up.

Again, it doesn't excuse my reaction to it all, but I was just really fed up with that week. No, I'm not better. I'm still stressed, homeless, and angry. But I'll try and leave that out of the game.

Don't worry mate, it's all fine. Will be looking forward to see you back in action the next session. Don't worry, you'll probably get a hold of that CSA. I mean with these politics the UK isn't exactly making a lot of friends around :P
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Warlord_Murphy

House of Commons
Warlord_Murphy,Sep 14 2014
05:36 PM
I'd like to point out that the rules say it is illegal to use military access with a neutral country to attack a country you are at war with. NGF and Austria don't seem aware of this, they haven't violated it yet, but I feel it should be stated just in case.

As you can see, I didn't accuse you of breaking it, so if you're getting so hot at me because you think I accused you of cheating, I didn't. And I think GB being able to attack through Ottomans is bull too. A player should either join a war or not, this business of "shadow support" hurts the game, likewise if Austria wants to attack the Dutch, they shouldn't be allowed march their armies across the length of Germany to do it. I assumed that would be an illegal move, that's what I was talking about.

Slayzer has a right to be mad with the shoddy GM-ing surrounding the African treaty and the NAP between France and the Dutch that was deleted for no reason, expired or not, treaties should be left where they are so players can keep track of what they have agreed on. On all of that, I sympathise with Slayzer, and if I were in that situation I would probably leave and probably not join one of Linny's games again.

What I don't sympathize with is these allegations of conspiracy between players and the GM to cheat in game. They're totally baseless. Linny is willing to accept that he may have deleted something in error. What's contentious here is Slayzer's claims that I edited the treaty, I assume the accusation is that I edited the duration, which I did not. He has now changed his claim from "linny deleted the treaty because it's existence was inconvenient to his plans" which was already absurd, but could be a simple case of assuming bad faith in what was human error. to "Linny deleted the treaty to cover up War_lord cheating" which is the point where he went beyond unfairly assuming bad faith and into conspiracy theories.
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emirhasa

House of Commons
I have to say that I'm against a change of rules regarding all that. A player should be able to attack from a neutral player country as long as that country has the consent of the neutral player country. If Russia hates Germany but doesn't want to go to war with it, why couldn't it give UK troops access so they can attack from there if they want.
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Warlord_Murphy

House of Commons
emirhasa,Sep 16 2014
04:22 AM
I have to say that I'm against a change of rules regarding all that. A player should be able to attack from a neutral player country as long as that country has the consent of the neutral player country. If Russia hates Germany but doesn't want to go to war with it, why couldn't it give UK troops access so they can attack from there if they want.

Because realistically if that happened Germany could make the argument that under international law Russia giving UK such direct support makes them a party in the war, thus they're a combatant. Sadly Victoria 2 lacks the mechanics to represent that.

For a historical equivalent look up US operations in Laos and Cambodia during the Vietnam war.
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Markoni1100
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House of Commons
And if you think that NGF and I broke a rule when we moved through a neutral country during a AI vs Player war, the rules don't apply for that.
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Slayzer
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House of Commons
Quote:
 
linny deleted the treaty because it's existence was inconvenient to his plans


When did I ever say this?
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emirhasa

House of Commons
Warlord_Murphy,Sep 16 2014
04:28 AM
emirhasa,Sep 16 2014
04:22 AM
I have to say that I'm against a change of rules regarding all that. A player should be able to attack from a neutral player country as long as that country has the consent of the neutral player country. If Russia hates Germany but doesn't want to go to war with it, why couldn't it give UK troops access so they can attack from there if they want.

Because realistically if that happened Germany could make the argument that under international law Russia giving UK such direct support makes them a party in the war, thus they're a combatant. Sadly Victoria 2 lacks the mechanics to represent that.

For a historical equivalent look up US operations in Laos and Cambodia during the Vietnam war.

So you argue that the nation getting attacked from the "neutral" nation that gives access to an aggressor, should be able to go into war with the nation giving access(still, as you said, vic2 mechanics don't allow that).

Well then we could find some middle ground proposing the following:
If Nation A gives access to Nation B so it can attack Nation C, Nation A is forced to give access to Nation C so it can battle Nation B's troops on Nation A's soil.

If we don't fix the rule that way, I agree that Nation B shouldn't be allowed to give Nation A access.

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Warlord_Murphy

House of Commons
Yes, but the thing is that wouldn't happen because two armies fighting causes quite a bit of destruction and disruption, which again can't be represented in Victoria 2.

I don't see a single reason why military access should be viable way to fight a war. All it will do is disproportionately favour countries with large armies, including the UK who would no longer have to risk an amphibious invasion if they can just land their army in a neutral country before war even breaks out.
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Kristjan2
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Head Administrator
Head Administrator
If anyone is able to take over as Spain or sub as Mexico in the Age of Empire IV game tomorrow, it would be much appreciated.
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Linny

House of Lords
good wars guys, nice to see we have mature players who don't ragequit over game. Sorry for sh1tty connection
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TheDerpyBeagle
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House of Commons
After thinking about this for a few days, I will be leaving this game, due to both needing time for school work and other real life activities, and after 2 slow sessions, the game has lost some of it's enjoyment for me.
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Robieman
Who Bitch Dis
House of Commons
TheDerpyBeagle,Sep 25 2014
07:22 PM
After thinking about this for a few days, I will be leaving this game, due to both needing time for school work and other real life activities, and after 2 slow sessions, the game has lost some of it's enjoyment for me.

derpy noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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emirhasa

House of Commons
There may be a chance I will not be able to attend the next session due to university.
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Linny

House of Lords
I will postpone tomorrow's game. I cannot make it, and it sppears neither can France, Italy, US.
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downwiththestars

House of Commons
Cool, I was about to pull out too. Family plans came up.
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Warlord_Murphy

House of Commons
Could the treaty situation be clarified then? By which I mean do treaties need to be resigned or is a session not considered passed?
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Linny

House of Lords
Hello all. I tried to stall it as long as I could but I can no longer play due to lack of time. I am very sorry and thank those who have stuck out this far.
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Kristian

House of Commons
Are you taking the piss? Is he taking the piss?
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