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System just doesn't work!; here's why...
Topic Started: Sep 28 2006, 09:27 AM (676 Views)
heregoesnothing
Brackenwood Newbie
Okay, I'd be willing to bet that some people that claim to "know" sarus actually just look at the dictionary when writing it.

Now, I'm usually very good at learning languages, but when I tried to learn Sarus, I was stumped.

I discovered why.

(I will use German, which I can speak okay in, for examples.)

When you go into a German class, you don't learn all the one-syllable words first. The reason: IT'S USELESS. No, you learn phrases. They don't tell you:
Yeah, 'sie' means she and 'Sie' means you and 'er' means he and 'die, der, or das' means the and 'du' also means you and 'ich' means I and...

NO. you learn phrases. Usually the first thing they teach you is
"Guten Tag." -good day, hello.

the reason: you can now use this knowledge in normal speech:
"hey, know any German?" "yeah, Guten Tag." "what?"

Then, "Ich heisse." "Ich heisse Carson." "Are you on drugs buddy?"


-----------------

I've proved my point. I think that there should be a "common phrases" topic put up.
It makes it easier and more fruitful to learn a language.

Therefore:

hello/goodbye - mt/tm
are you well - m dm dfd
yes/no - t/d
when? - fr?
where? - rf?
do you have - rrm dm mrr
it is - df m

Wow. I look back and that's a stupidly short list. But you get my point.
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chluaid
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Bitey's Daddy
Admin
Heya, welcome to the forum. Thanks for the input and raising your concerns.. I think the Beginner's Conversation might be what you're looking for. It was to be a weekly thing, but that's proof of the little time I can allocate for Sarus these days. Sorry to disappoint ya.

I think you're right about people using the dictionary for their posts, but I don't see what's wrong with that method of learning. After you've looked up the same word two or three times for conversation, it's bound to sink in. You're right about the lack of conversational lessons though and if anyone else here has partly internalised Sarus like I have, I'd be very surprised and very impressed.

So far, in developing Sarus as a usable language all I've really had time to do is make the dictionary and write a few articles on pronunciation, rules, etc. One day (god knows when) I will find the time to actually continue the project, which will include proper vocab and conversational lessons. This will eventually appear on SarusNet, of which many people here are aware.. Judging by the tone of your post, I'm assuming you weren't aware of that, and perhaps you think that Sarus is finalised and ready for publishing in some ConLangs journal, but this isn't the case.

Anyway, thanks again for the post.. you've motivated me to put this stuff back on the 'to-do this year' list
:)
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wittyhobos
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Brackenwood Lightweight
I think German is just wierd bucky. In spanish class we learn words and how to conjugate. In begginners class we just learn like Hello and Put your gum in the trash. But overall learning a language probobly means learning words and grammer.

I have never tried to learn sarus, but usin a flippin dictionario is cool I guess. Thats what our teaches tell us what to do anyway. But what do I know. Phrases or no phrases!

Adam, do whatever man. Who knows, mabey sarus will be a universal language someday. :)
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Laroon
Brackenwood Lightweight
Wow...okay.

I have taken spanish for 4 years in a classroom, as well as german for the past 3 semesters. Now, I have also learned many langauges on my own- Hawaiian, Japanese, etc.

You guys are saying your view points, and those are great for you. But don't start applying them to everyone. People learn languages differently, and they are NOT an easy thing to acquire. Now, with Sarus, I understand that the people at Brackenwood don't have the "how to learn Sarus" bit quite nailed yet. But there is enough information that you can, (yes, yourself) make a phrase to learn words. Adam has done this with L sld dts m ft ltt. I have memorized that and that gave me 6 words right off. Easy. However, you can't learn vocab by just putting them in phrases. It gets too ambiguous when you're trying to learn huge phrases instead of just learning individual words.
Now, when I was learning hawaiian, i was told to learn the pattern. verb goes here, subject here, negation participle here, and then you stream it all together. So when you're learning a language, you must learn vocab AND grammar. So make some sentences and just plug in different words. Like... "L sld dts m ft ltt" is "the forest world is very beauitful". you can then take that and say "L dsl m ft dmm" for "the boy is very happy". Just know what you're saying, and recycle patterns like this. Then make your sentences to be "The boy is NOT happy" and stuff like that. and ALWAYS: practice, practice, practice.
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chluaid
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Bitey's Daddy
Admin
brilliant advice :)

I think Sarus 2 - despite having a vocab 300% bigger than Sarus 1 - will go a long way towards making the language easier to learn. Soon I hope to release some more of these 'all purpose' phrases that incorporate the new vocab.

Incidentally (or perhaps 'drastically'.. depending on how you see it), the new phrase is:
"L sld dts t ft ltt"

the difference being that "t" now means is, be, am, are.. it also means yes, as in Sarus 1
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zixinus
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Brackenwood Heavyweight
I think Adam might find an expert on languges most useful. Does anybody know one?
[and no, no sarcasm]
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otherGuy
Brackenwood Newbie
Erm, I think I probably fit the bill. I have been discussing srs with Adam, and am currently working on the first srs lesson.
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heregoesnothing
Brackenwood Newbie
Sorry, didn't know about that Beginner's guide thing...

Also, you guys made good points, I'll take them into consideration.

So where can I get info on Sarus 2, I don't want to learn stuff wrong.
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heregoesnothing
Brackenwood Newbie
hey wait! I was looking at the sarus v2 dictionary. It said m is "or" and t is "is, be!"

I thought it was supposed to be fixed to be the other way around!

like

Dr m means "I am" not Dr t!
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chluaid
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Bitey's Daddy
Admin
you read it correctly.. "mi" now means "or":
dor mi dom (me or you)

and "ti" means "be, is, am, are":
dom ti sodil (you are crazy)


This revision sees Sarus using "ti" used as a yes word the same way as in Chinese.. i.e. in response to a question, the answer is 'be', or 'not be'.
Likewise, in Chinese "do you have something?", they literally ask "you have/not have something?" effectively giving you two options to choose from. To this you'd respond either 'have' or 'not have'.. otherwise meaning 'yep' or 'nup'.

The other use of "ti" makes a verb into a present participle (formerly "LL"), in other words, adds "ing" to the verb.. therefore:

dor fdt = I eat
dor t fdt = I am eating

note: the above literally translates as "I am eat", but means "I'm eating (doing a verb in the present tense)"

It can also be used for other "ing" verbs apart from the present tense:

sos dof dotfyd ti mirut = he tried sleeping (lit. he tried be sleep)
dof ti dotfyd mirut = he's trying to sleep (lit. he be try sleep)

When used with an adjective or a noun, "ti" just means "is". In this case, using "ti" is optional.. For example:

dor domim = I happy
- means exactly the same as -
dor ti domim = I am happy
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