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| Ummm....I guess it'd be called 'abortion'; Whats your opinion on it I guess. | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 17 2008, 09:22 PM (90 Views) | |
| Loren Dyavol | Dec 17 2008, 09:22 PM Post #1 |
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I'm not sure if I can post this on here but....I wanted to ask what people thought of abortion. I think its wrong personally. I mean, why is it two counts murder if a guy kills a pregnant woman, but its not even killing when a woman gets an abortation because "its not a living thing?" I mean, under certain circumstances, I can understand wanting an abortion, but honestly? Isn't it honestly just murder anyway? Just because the baby isn't out on its own, doesn't mean it isn't breathing, or that it has no beating heart, right? It's still alive, isn't it? I don't get it, abortion is ok, but if someone who is pregnant gets killed its two counts of murder, not just one, when if you get an abotion its not murder because "it isn't a living thing yet." I mean, yea if someone kills someone they need to be punished, and I think it IS two counts, but it just doesnt make any sense at all to me..... Anyway, what do you guys here on Broken Worlds think? |
| The World is a Vampire, it drains us slowly, as we struggle against time, and then, when we die, it lets us leave its grip. But, is there somewhere we go afterwards? Or are we just left, without being, and without anything to have lived for? | |
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| Distressed Princess | Dec 17 2008, 10:22 PM Post #2 |
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Abortion has always been a sticky subject. I personally, see both sides of the argument fully. I do, indeed, agree that abortion is okay in CERTAIN circumstances. As for you Loren: I think there is a big difference between killing a pregnant woman and having an abortion. When you kill the mother and the child she is carrying, you're stealing a life that should have been. When a mother has an abortion, she is making a choice. The world is already overrun by poverty and abused children. If the mother already wants the abortion, but doesn't get it, what sort of a mother do you think she is going to be for that child when she wanted to get rid of it in the first place? And just for common knowledge; you are NOT permitted to get an abortion if the baby is past two months of development [I believe that is the correct month, I could be off by a bit]. THEN it is considered murder. Up to the two month point however, the fetus isn't even a human life in the slightest way. It's rather just a clump of cells and blood with mixed DNA. There is no heartbeat, no mind, and barely a recognizable form. At that stage in the pregnancy, having an abortion is no different then having a bladder removed if it were causing you problems. It would be different if pregnancy had no effect on the woman carrying the child, but it does. It's harmful and in extreme rarity lethal, to have a child. [In earlier history death rates were higher.] When something like that is harming the body, AND you don't want it there, the sensible thing is to have it removed. Another widely discussed topic is if the father should have any say in the choice of abortion. I'm sort of partial on that matter. I think it's wrong to take away the man's would-be-child, but as a female I understand how hard it must be on the woman's body and since she is the one carrying the baby she has to deal with all the negative side effects. |
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-Aethe's Biography- -Aethe's Life- -The One Who Controls- | |
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| Loren Dyavol | Dec 17 2008, 11:04 PM Post #3 |
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Good points. But.....unless you get like umm....forced into having sex or something, I kinda think you should deal with it, cause your the one having sex. And, I can see both sides of it too, just not that well, I still think abortion is wrong though, but you are right. It's the mothers choice, and for some people choosing abortion bugs them forever, or they feel better, not having to worry about what could have happened, or being a bad mother. and I can understand your opnion too. I agree with you on just about all of that, and I didnt know when the legal and illegal times were so thanks! But anyway........What I'm trying to say is I know what you mean. |
| The World is a Vampire, it drains us slowly, as we struggle against time, and then, when we die, it lets us leave its grip. But, is there somewhere we go afterwards? Or are we just left, without being, and without anything to have lived for? | |
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| Rosaline | Dec 18 2008, 09:17 PM Post #4 |
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I see both sides of the argument as well. And I've teetered for years on the subject. Is it a life at conception or at 16 weeks when it feels pain? Etc... I do think that the laws, stating that if a pregnant woman is killed, it can be ruled a double homicide. I was actually in a debate class when a similar law was officially passed, and I remember my (strongly liberal) teacher stating that this was the left wing's way of working anti-abortion laws into the books. It had something to do with the scenario where if a man beats a pregnant woman, and she loses the pregnancy, then he can be charged with murder. Its been almost 3 years and we haven't seen that, but...I can still see it happening. I think that the difference there though, is similar to what Distressed Princess said, though. Its a life taken without choice. Like...even if the woman is killed on her way to the abortion clinic...There are certain situations where people who commit murder should be punished to the strongest degree possible. Now, I may have my biases here due to personal experience, but thats a different debate completely. Murder is based on intent. And if someone kills a pregnant woman (knowing she is pregnant, lets say...lets not count it if its not apparent, just for theoretical purposes), there's the whole idea of mercy....and if someone kills a pregnant woman...then they knowingly killed 2 (or more) entities and therefore should be charged as such.. I mean...even during the Salem witch trials...women got pardoned from hanging if pregnant....at least....until the child was born, but...then they were hung, but not too many because it had all blown over by then (Elizabeth Proctor is my hero!). Its an awareness thing....but like I said...I'm much more harder on murders since my experiences. Anyways. Abortion. I was once talking to this kid, and I told him my religious affiliation (Catholic). He asked me "do you believe in abortion?" and I said yes. And he told me then I wasn't truly Catholic. But...on a philosophical view, here's how I see it...and even if you're not religious, just go with it because I have a point...I promise. If God is all powerful, all loving, and all forgiving, then even the lowest of the low can be forgiven....then even "abortion comitters" can be forgiven. I'm sick of the church saying that so many women are going to hell for 'destroying a life.' because the church doesn't even know. Seriously, if you're on birth control for MEDICAL PURPOSES...the church can excommunicate you....which means GO AWAY AND NEVER COME BACK! for those, who aren't affiliated with Christianity. But this is how I see abortion...I myself, would never have an abortion. Psychologically, I couldn't handle it. (Not to mention all of the catholic guilt built up over the years). I wouldn't be able to live with the "what ifs" at all, and thats the saddest part about abortion in my mind. Everyone worries about the unborn life...but who stops to think about the psychological toil that the mother will face for the rest of her life? "Well, she did it to herself..." Some might say...and to them, I would say "You don't know." Because no one, other than that woman and her creator know the difference. To the radical catholics out there, that rally in front of Washington DC every year...to them I say...I would never HAVE an abortion, but that doesn't mean I can't comfort the woman who has...instead of condemn her, when she's probably already condemned herself for what she's done. What about the woman who has 2 children already, but physically can not endure a 3rd child birth for whatever medical reason? Is she to sacrifice herself for the one unborn life? Or does she have the abortion so that she can take care of the 2 that are already on this earth? Its not always as black and white as "keep it" or "don't keep it" Abortion really is too general to be legal or illegal. I certainly don't want to see us go backwards, into a world where a woman lifts a dryer jor throws herslef down the stairs ust so that her body will terminate her pregnancy, or where a girl goes into an alley to meet a man who will hack her up with a knife he's used on dozens of others before her, and who doesn't have the training to know what to do if theres a complication...although, then they'd be charged for a double homicide anyway wouldn't they? Edited by Rosaline, Dec 18 2008, 09:20 PM.
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| Onyxian | Mar 26 2009, 03:36 AM Post #5 |
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Personally, I feel I don't have the right to choose either side. But, that's because I'm male! >_> Not saying I don't have an opinion, just stating that, because I'm male, and I will never know the true experience of childbearing, I don't feel that I have any right to judge a woman for how she feels on giving birth or having an abortion. Once again, not saying I don't care, I just feel that I don't have a right to say either way, because I'm male, not female. If I had any disposition, it would be that it's the woman's right to choose, not mine, so I'm probably pro-choice. This also solves my 'if you knocked a woman up' issue for me, for I would never ask any woman to get an abortion. If they sought me for help or opinions, I would tell them that I couldn't actually say which one to do. But; I would do my best to help them decide which one they wanted to do, objectively, without leaning them in either direction, at least not actively doing so. So yeah, I'm male, it's not my choice, therefore I can't say either way. |
| Well, forgive me if I never come up with something for my signature other than, "HOLY CROW! I've never given my signature THIS much thought before!" | |
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| Loren Dyavol | Apr 23 2009, 10:06 PM Post #6 |
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Man, every time I go through and read the newest post (posts depending on how long its been since I was on. Not that theres lots of posts but hey, still counts. What im bout to say I mean,) I feel kinda dumb about the way I put the orignal post, not only that, but over the last few months, my perspective has changed totally and completely. I know someone who had something horrible happen to them in January of Feburary, I cant member exactly when, but, she was attacked, and got pregnant. Now, I care for her a lot, in all sorts of ways. Shes meh best friend, and she'd told me bout it, an meh first reaction was, excuse my profanities, "Im gunna kill those mother fuckin bastards!", but she told me, "Im going to get an abortion." I was kinda devastated, not only cause of what happened to her, but because this was her first time, being, not only pregnant, but her virginity was stolen as well, and your first pregnancy should be a happy time with somone you love. ANyway, getting to the point, (Prolly shouldnt have put all that, but I want y'all to understand what im tryin to get at ya know?) I have a whole different perspective, im not pro or con abortion really, all your points really sink in better now. I agree entirely that, yes, its the mothers choicee. I also get it now, that I cant condone somoen for thier choice, which I kinda in a way usd to. Also, I DO think, that the father (Under non rape and such circumstances, if the dad actually cares about the mom and such,) I do think he should get a say, at least his opinion, untimately though, its the mothers choice. Anyway, I also think (Onyxian), thats guys dont have the RIGHT to choose either decision, but they DO have a RIGHT to pick a side. You guys have your opinions too, and you should voice them, even if its something that is entirely one sided topic, that only has to do with females. That doesnt mean guys have a right to judge, or they'll ever understand that kinda choice(not trying to be mean), but I think its not a matter or having a right or not if you voice your actual opinion. No, you cant neccessarily chose for someone, but you can tell them your opinion. Anyway, didnt mean to ramble aimlessly with all that, just wanted to tell y'all that, yea Im keppin tabs on meh thread! ANyway lata y'all! OH! P.S. Now I feel dumber from all that...hehehe |
| The World is a Vampire, it drains us slowly, as we struggle against time, and then, when we die, it lets us leave its grip. But, is there somewhere we go afterwards? Or are we just left, without being, and without anything to have lived for? | |
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| Onyxian | May 14 2009, 07:03 PM Post #7 |
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Don't feel dumb, just think of it as new life experiences changing your past belief. But yeah, in a nutshell, what I was saying is that Men don't have a right to judge, or the right to choose for someone else. It's not our place, it's not our right, and it's not our choice. I do agree, however, that men are allowed to voice their opinions on it; the only problem I have with that is that sometimes opinions made by men (and even women) in this case are either narrow minded, one-sided, or even built up over a lack of knowledge and understanding. That being said, we are entitled to our opinions, especially if we are the father of said child in the possible light of an abortion clinic. But still, not our choice. My personal opinion on it is that there's way too many variables in any situation of pregnancy to ban it all together, or make it completely legal. In other words, any law made on it would end up harming someone in some way later down the road. It's just one of those things that can't be made into a law. The only thing I could accept is if we created an ENTIRE article in the living constitution of the United States, which could be changed and manipulated easily enough so as to add in all of the given variables. Mind you, that amendment to the constitution would probably take up the whole constitution itself...in 9 point font. Fine print style. Then maybe we might be able to account for every variable and situation. That being said, you now know how implausible it is. |
| Well, forgive me if I never come up with something for my signature other than, "HOLY CROW! I've never given my signature THIS much thought before!" | |
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| Rosaline | May 18 2009, 11:11 AM Post #8 |
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I don't think you should feel dumb either. I think that theres just different opinions out there, and thats what makes topics like this so great. If we all agreed, there would be nothing to discuss. They're saying now that America's point of view on abortion is shifting. Apparently we're becoming more pro life than pro choice. This is great, we're forming values! Someone's waking up and saying "abortion as birth control is a bad idea." and thats the good thing, but this is still dangerous ground. You can't tell the pro life radicals this information. Thats like telling the nazis they've got MORE supporters...they take it and run with it. This is going to just make them more radical towards those who aren't seeing eye to eye with them. And this pro life/pro choice thing as I've said before...is stupid. People need to open up their minds just enough to see that other opinions do exist, bad things happen to good people...and everyone makes mistakes. No matter what you support, it still SHOULD be a bit of a shock when someone you know tells you "i'm having an abortion" just because, as human beings we reach out to eachother for those things. A human in so much turmoil that they're going to end a pregnancy...IS indeed, a sad event. And part of you being there for them, is feeling that twinge of pain and devastation...because you're holding their pain for just a moment. I sat in church not too long ago, and was preached at during the homily that we are a nation of baby killers. A NATION of BABY KILLERS. If you believe in abortion you are a murderer, and you shouldn't be sitting in the church. I almost got up and left. I was burning with anger, it bothered me so much that they were so closed minded. A woman who's in the church...you go to the church for forgiveness, sanctuary, consoling, and you're going to stand up there and tell her and anyone who has supported her through this difficult part of her life...that shes a murderer? She already knows it for one...and those who use abortion as a birth control form, or those who do it without guilt, are such a minority compared to those who have abortions for legit reasons. But no. It needs to be legalized, or outlawed. There needs to be a definite black and white answer to make everyone happy...our nation needs to be 100% yay or nay. And no one will be happy until we make it so. Its why I say I'm pro choice 100% and firmly believe in those rights. I think guys should have a say too, but as its been previously stated, its just a say, its not the end all be all decision. A man has no right to tell a woman what to do with her body, just like no other woman should tell another woman the same. There are SO many reports where women have said "if he had told me he'd support me...this would have been different." And I think that guys need to take responsibility and have those discussions if a girl gets pregnant, not just cower away. Then again, just because there's no man in the life doesn't mean that there is legit reasons to abort. |
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| Circe | Jul 19 2009, 07:13 PM Post #9 |
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I'm going to make this simple: Abortion is the woman's choice, and only do I consider it remotely wrong if the baby has a heart. Otherwise, it's isn't alive. It is an embreo, not a baby. |
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