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Tuesday, October 24, 2006; Even more info......
Topic Started: Oct 24 2006, 03:53 AM (2,595 Views)
Lana
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Roger may be gone :( but then again it's quite late here. I do hope he wasn't scared off! No reason to be, really. I for one have learned that there are many different philosophies out there about hunting. I used to think it was just the pro and the con. I haven't eaten a living creature since I was 18 and I never will again (that's why you'll never see me on Survivor!), but I have recently learned to calm my hatred of hunters just a tiny bit. I have to face the fact that there will always be meat eating humans. I have a little more respect for those who are willing to kill what they eat than those who still eat animals but don't want to know the sad story, and instead want their meat all pretty and faceless and wrapped up at the market. I figure, don't eat it unless you are willing to look it in the eye when you end its life. That said, the pigs and sheep did cause enormous devastation to the Channel Islands, thanks to the ignorant humans who introduced them. I saw many before and after photos this past weekend provided by the NPS and the Nature Conservancy, and it is obvious that their eradication was so vital to restoring the beauty we glimpsed on our trip. Do I wish the animals could be relocated somewhere on the mainland? Absolutely! I give money to organizations that rescue animals who are the innocent victims of human stupidity. But I am now trying to think of the endangered island fox, and also the other animals and plants that are now extinct forever because of these invasive foreign animals.
I could never fathom hurting another creature for sport, and I will always loathe trophy hunters. I am sickened by anyone who would mount a creature on a wall! I hope there are less hunters on this planet every year, since it's so obvious we don't need to eat meat to be healthy. But as long as there are hunters out there, and they are going to go shoot at something, I suppose I'd rather they shoot an animal that is harming other living creatures. Of course, the hunter should then take the meat and feed his (her?) family, and reduce some of the demand for factory farmed meat...which is a whole 'nother horrific story itself.
So there's my soapbox, as usual posted at the wee hours of the morn when no one is around....
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Hulabird
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I'm here Lana and I hear you girl. I don't mimic everything you said but not because I don't believe in what you're saying.
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Lana
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Thanks, Hulamama.
I do have to go to work in a few hours so I'm going to curl up in the nest now.
I sent you another email (you mentioned that your PM folder was full I think).
Sweet dreams!
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Hulabird
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Sweet dreams Lana. Wishing you a great day at work tomorrow (today). Hulabirdie is wrapping her wings tightly around all of you sweet peeps so you will be safe and sound til we meet again (ahui hou kakou)
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Hikers
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Rogrnnr2, I would love to hear more about the Santa Cruz Island in the 60's. I was living on Hollywood Beach in Port Hueneme in the late 60's. The beaches were covered with sand dollars, star fish and my brothers used to fish for perch and crab right off the jetty's. And remember grunnion hunts were so much fun. Then something happened!! The beaches got sterial in the 70's. I was in my teens then, so I wasn't reading the newspapers, but it must have been the DDT being dumped in the ocean. Good news, tho, last summer I found a sand dollar on Bates Beach here in Ventura County. I was happy to find one, for that might mean the eagles will have healthy fish to eat. I love the history of this area, Ventura beaches have changed so much since the 60's. No one ever came down the grade to this area. After 9 p.m. you would be the only driver on the 101. Hope to hear more from you Rogrnnr2.
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Troth
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Rogrnnr2,Oct 25 2006
12:47 AM
Hulabird,Oct 24 2006
11:25 PM
Hi again Roger. Thanks for responding. I want to tip-talon out here and not try to stir up controversy since our forum is nice. But I must go on record as anti-hunting and anti-hunter. Well, that's not to say we don't mantle you. Can you give us some more history of the whole situation? In the 60s-70s times were much different than they are now. I really want to hear all of your point of view even if it goes against mine, I'm not trying to pick a fight but I have to realize that there are people in life that don't share my point of view. I'm kind of nervous about this post but you seem like a gentleman and I will discuss it in a ladylike manner. And I promise that nobody else here will say anything bad to you.

Now I am sorry I have Replied

Roger, you posted that you were a hunting guide to rid the island of the pigs and sheep that were not wanted. That is a positive thing. We all want to see these islands brought back to their natural biodiversity and it seems that the owner was a person that was concerned with the same thing. These islands are unique and need protecting. I think we all share this in common. We are a large group with all personalities but we do share our love and concern for nature, animals, earth and conservation. Even in the closest of families there are differences. :D
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Hikers
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Hi again, We are diverse. I remember back when we were thinking of names for the eaglet. Prince, princess, I thought some Tahitian name would be pretty. Then some one came into the nest and said. The eagle is our American National bird, born and raised in America. I went GULP, he was so right!!
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peppermint
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Cumbrian: THANK YOUUUUUUUUU.....now I feel so included with the flock!!
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Bea
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Good morning all!
Roger, please come back!!!!! Let me tell everyone who your employer really was and how much he did for this beautiful island.

The following is from the book: Santa Cruz Island - Anthology - published in 1989 and dedicated to Carey Stanton (1923-1987) who established the Santa Cruz Island Foundation to protect, preserve and carry on the work of the Caire and Stanton families.

In 1937 the westerly 55000 acres of the island were sold to Edwin L. Stanton, a business man from Los Angeles. The Stanton family occupied Santa Cruz Island for 50 years (1937-1987). With Edwin Stantons death in 1963, management of the Island passed to his son Carey Stanton (Rogers employer).

HERE COMES THE REALLY GOOD PART:

On Dec. 8, 1987, through the generous preservation foresight of Carey Stanton, upon his death the westerly 9/10th of Santa Cruz passed to THE NATURE CONSERVANCY.
Carey Stanton established the Santa Cruz Island Foundation to ensure that after his death, the work to which he had devoted much of his life, would be preserved for public benefit.

This guy was a good guy! ;)

Roger, we want to hear a lot more! Please don't leave us!! Pretty pleeease?
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Hulabird
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Sorry peeps and Roger. I should have kept my big beak to myself :(
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Troth
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Great work, Bea!! Yes Roger do come back!!! We all love these islands, come back and share!!
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Bea
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Don't feel bad Hula. I have a feeling Roger will join us again. There is soo much he can educate us about, and yes, the hunting part was a big part at the time he was there, so it was part of life at the islands at that time.

When I was growing up, my dad often brought home wild rabbits and pheasant and deer he got from his boss (a hunter) and I used to help him clean (is this what "culling" means?) and skin the animals, and it didn't really phase me. Probably because I didn't see these animals when they were alive.

My first boyfriends father was a hunter and I participated in a hunt once as a person driving the animals into a clearing to be shot by the hunters. This was a population controlling hunt and much like someone else said, like hunting in the Zoo. I remember being excited at seeing all the animals nevertheless. HOWEVER, when the hunt was over, and all the "kill" was laying there spread out one next to the other (mostly rabbits and deer, but also some foxes), I went into shock and disbelieve at myself. How could I have possibly helped kill all these beautiful animals? I cried for a whole day and couldn't forget the sight of the beautiful red foxed with their gorgeous tails just laying there. Needless to say, I never went on a hunt again.
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Eagle Duo
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I grew up in a hunting family and I hunted Deer & Elk as soon as I was old enough to get a license. We stored and ate all of it. It was the major portion of meat for our family. I stopped hunting when it became too expensive and cumbersome to get home for it. We have a very diversified group and we are not here to argue or fight about the hunting issue. We are just aware that we have hunters, non hunters, many people that want to rid the islands of the non native animals and some that have reservations about that.

Roger, don't let that issue keep you away. It is not a problem and we would like your participation. All of our members and especially Hulabird are harmless and we have had no confrontational members.

MIB
Retired Marine
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Teddy_Neal
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Rogrnnr2,Oct 25 2006
02:47 AM
Hulabird,Oct 24 2006
11:25 PM
Hi again Roger. Thanks for responding. I want to tip-talon out here and not try to stir up controversy since our forum is nice. But I must go on record as anti-hunting and anti-hunter. Well, that's not to say we don't mantle you. Can you give us some more history of the whole situation? In the 60s-70s times were much different than they are now. I really want to hear all of your point of view even if it goes against mine, I'm not trying to pick a fight but I have to realize that there are people in life that don't share my point of view. I'm kind of nervous about this post but you seem like a gentleman and I will discuss it in a ladylike manner. And I promise that nobody else here will say anything bad to you.

Now I am sorry I have Replied

I have read and re-read this.

I'm not real sure Roger is angry. I read what he typed, but unless he misinterpreted what Hulabird said, there is nothing to be angry about.

I ask each of us to be careful of the words we choose to use with people we are not that familiar with and I ask Roger to read again that Hulabird merely said she is anti-hunting and anti-hunter, but that she liked (mantled) him. (Not an exact translation, but she wouldn't mantle what she didn't like)

Roger, we respectfully ask for you to give us your historical knowledge of the island!

Peace!
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Teddy_Neal
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Oh! And for gosh sakes, will you people do some GoodSearching?
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