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Discussion of other Raptor species; their anatomy, biology, ecology, etc.
Topic Started: Sep 16 2007, 11:04 AM (18,119 Views)
Raptorman
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ostrich2
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I was searching around for information on the ferruginous last night and one reference I found mentioned that based on some studies of DNA it had been suggested that the ferruginous could be considered an eagle instead of a hawk, I can't recall now where I saw that.
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Raptorman
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ostrich2
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Here is a site which is about the Ferruginous - they are doing telemetry and banding on these birds:

Ferruginous Hawk
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Raptorman
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ostrich2
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Harpo posted this picture in chat - aside from the rather comical scene, it occurred to me that it's kind of interesting to speculate on what exactly this interaction is about. The eaglet clearly has quite a large crop, so it seems unlikely it would be food begging. There does not appear to be a sibling within view that it could be interacting with, and I can't think offhand of what other event might be prompting such an apparent degree of excitement or agitation in the eaglet.

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Raptorman
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ostrich2
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Bea, Patti, have you had any luck with the id quiz that Bill posted a while back? I find it still pretty challenging. I'll post a few of my guesses and perhaps we can fill in the blanks among us. I'm pretty sure of several and not so sure on others.

1. sharp-shinned hawk
2. ?
3. merlin?
4. immature red shouldered hawk?
5. gyrfalcon?
6. immature golden eagle
7. osprey
8. bald eagle (3rd-4th year juvenile)
9. turkey vulture?
10. ferruginous hawk
11. Harris hawk
12. ?
13. Gray hawk
14. ?
15. ?
16. swallow-tailed kite
17. ?
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ostrich2
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As I mentioned in chat, there was a show called "Balapan: The Wings Of The Altai", about a nomadic tribe in Mongolia who to this day continue to use golden eagles to help them against predatory wolves and foxes who prey on their herds.

I taped the show and it was very interesting - and I imagine it probably gives a decent idea of what the original falconry might have been like.

I'll try to recap some of the highlights:

- the Kazakh hunters always catch females apparently (how do they recognize females when they go to catch the eaglets?) due to their larger size and aggressiveness. A particular "white-shouldered" breed was shown at one point - I'm not positive if this a distinct breed or subspecies or not.

- they show an elder and a young boy going out into the mountains and capturing an eaglet from a nest. The eaglet was quite large and probably close to fledging age I would think, although not able to fly yet obviously. The bird was actually completely calm when approached, and could easily be wrapped in a cloth bag and transported away. They mentioned that the eaglet was initially panting, and that was stated as an indication that it was thirsty, and it would be given water when taken back to the encampment (actually drinking liquids isn't something I've heard of before with respect to eagles).

- eagles are often shown tethered on perches outside the buildings as well as hooded, just like you see in modern falconry. Interestingly, they also put leather "mitts" on the eagle's feet above the talons, apparently to protect it from potential bites from prey. I'm not sure if this is done in modern falconry or not - certainly wild
birds don't have this protection.

- they showed one interesting technique (although they didn't explain how/why it works) whereby the elder eagle trainer immobilizes the bird by lightly pinching it with two fingers on the front of the neck. Again I'm not sure if there is any modern analogue.

- a training technique is shown where the bird is put on a thick swaying rope hung in the air and allowed to try to balance on it - this is apparently needed to give the bird the balancing skill it needs when they are taken out on horseback and sit on the arm of the rider.

- when they feed the bird, although they feed it meat that they may have kept for some time, they soak it in warm water so that it tastes like fresh kill to the eagle.

- they also showed a technique where they tie the wing and tail feathers of the bird as a method of preventing escape - according to the show, by tying specific feathers in the tail, the eagle can't gain altitude.

- they show some flight training of the bird where it is flown and is given a rabbit's foot as a reward each time it returns. Just like falconers today they use thick leather gloves to hold the bird.

- after catching a fox, the hunter retrieves the fox and then gives the eagle a piece of meat as a reward - I think this is quite similar to the modern method for hunting raptors.

- finally they show a cooperative hunt between a couple of clans with multiple riders using their eagles. They have some drive the target wolf from the plain while others ride up on the hills to strike (kind of like half-human half-eagle Harris Hawks? :D) Apparently having your eagle make the actual kill is a big source of pride :D.

At the end they mention that after several years each eagle are eventually returned to the wild. For particularly strong or proficient birds they put a strip of fabric on the bird so they can watch for eaglets raised by these birds, as good candidates. So a "banding" of a sort.

What's most interesting to me watching a show like this is trying to imagine how some of these techniques were figured out or thought up for the very first time? How was the idea of using golden eagles to hunt thought up at all? How it was discovered that hooding the bird was an effective way of calming it for example?
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Naturegal
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Ian - Regarding the hawk I saw on the golf course today, first I heard this high pitched loud call and it was repeated over and over. I looked around and on the top of a nearby tree was this hawk. What I noticed first was the rusty tan front (belly), reddish shoulders and off it flew. Apparently this hawk is common in Florida so when I got home I checked my bird book and I am 99% sure this is a Red Shouldered Hawk. Wish I could have had my camera handy, but I had a golf club in my hand, can't multi-task. :lol:
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ostrich2
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Naturegal,Dec 4 2007
06:16 PM
Ian - Regarding the hawk I saw on the golf course today, first I heard this high pitched loud call and it was repeated over and over.  I looked around and on the top of a nearby tree was this hawk.  What I noticed first was the rusty tan front (belly), reddish shoulders and off it flew.  Apparently this hawk is common in Florida so when I got home I checked my bird book and I am 99% sure this is a Red Shouldered Hawk.  Wish I could have had my camera handy, but I had a golf club in my hand, can't multi-task.  :lol:

Hi Carole - you can also look back on page 14 of the thread where we had a picture of a red-shouldered, which you can compare to the bird you saw. Red-shouldered definitely sounds like a possibility. Where geographically was this located?

Whoops - I missed it the first time that this was in Florida. I believe the RS is a common hawk in FL.
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Naturegal
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ostrich2,Dec 4 2007
09:50 PM
Naturegal,Dec 4 2007
06:16 PM
Ian - Regarding the hawk I saw on the golf course today, first I heard this high pitched loud call and it was repeated over and over.  I looked around and on the top of a nearby tree was this hawk.  What I noticed first was the rusty tan front (belly), reddish shoulders and off it flew.  Apparently this hawk is common in Florida so when I got home I checked my bird book and I am 99% sure this is a Red Shouldered Hawk.  Wish I could have had my camera handy, but I had a golf club in my hand, can't multi-task.  :lol:

Hi Carole - you can also look back on page 14 of the thread where we had a picture of a red-shouldered, which you can compare to the bird you saw. Red-shouldered definitely sounds like a possibility. Where geographically was this located?

Whoops - I missed it the first time that this was in Florida. I believe the RS is a common hawk in FL.

Hi Ian - According to people I spoke to here (Sarasota, Fl) the RS is quite common. Next time I am golfing I will be more vigilant and try to get a picture. I was just so taken in by all that I saw that day, 2 deer running across the fairway, herons, egrets and lots of turtles. Apparently there is an EAGLE at our golf club, the club's logo has an eagle on it, but I have yet to see it. I'm here for 4 months so he/she better come out of hiding and let me get a photo. So far last year the only things that came out of hiding were the alligators and I can do without them. :lol:
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Patti
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Carole, the Red-shouldered hawks are so beautiful...the tail and folded wings (backside) help me I.D. it the easiest. Our RS's have very dark grey or brown (almost looks black to me?) and white barred wings, and it looks almost like a herringbone pattern to me when they are folded and sitting on a pole. I'm really lousy with ID's, but especially so from the front underside if they're sitting on a pole.

Ian, the program you described on the golden eagle sounded fabulous. I'm making an assumption based on how I clip my cockatoos wings as to how they might tie them off. I clip off quite a bit of the first 4-5 outer feathers so that they can flutter down, rather than crash land, if they are frightened. I am assuming they must tie these long outer flight feathers together to prohibit take off. Actually, how they could accomplish this is beyond me! Bird wings seem so strong to me. It really hurts if you get slapped in the face by them--very powerful. How they could keep them tied for any length of time really baffles me. Bill ?????

Today Jeff Corwin's The Eagle's View (2005) repeated on The Animal Planet. It featured a great segment of him in Scotland with Tilly, the famous golden eagle. She's been all over Nest Watch and probably Chat. Anyway, if anybody can catch it again, it's very nice. Tilly beats Jeff by a longshot in locating him as opposed to his locating a "lost" hiker in the hillsides of Scotland.

Possibly 3 weeks ago, I watched another Jeff Corwin Animal Planet show featuring TEAMWORK and it had a wonderful segment on trained Harris hawks in the south--in the USA---and he had a remote control rabbit as the bait. It was really interesting and goes along with all that Bill had posted on the Harris hawk. They're really beautiful! At that time I wasn't aware that Bill was posting so much info on the Harris hawk. I'm sure this program has been repeated numerous times and will air many more times. Corwin's Quest and topic is teamwork...Harris hawks, some kind of ant and maybe hyenas. Sorry for any spelling errors here. :rolleyes:
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ostrich2
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This seems to be a good week for documentaries - the Marc Girard documentary A Falconer's Chronicle that I had been waiting for some weeks now for them to show again was on the Documentary Channel (again a Canadian only channel) this evening. It's going to be shown again tomorrow afternoon, so I am going to tape it.

There used to be a web page about this documentary but it doesn't seem to exist anymore.
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harpo516
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ostrich2,Nov 28 2007
11:04 PM
Harpo posted this picture in chat - aside from the rather comical scene, it occurred to me that it's kind of interesting to speculate on what exactly this interaction is about.  The eaglet clearly has quite a large crop,  so it seems unlikely it would be food begging.  There does not appear to be a sibling within view that it could be interacting with, and I can't think offhand of what other event might be prompting such an apparent degree of excitement or agitation in the eaglet. 

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It was a random photo posted on a hosting site:

http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1004980...43314mfsyZGnqmy
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