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Discussion of other Raptor species; their anatomy, biology, ecology, etc.
Topic Started: Sep 16 2007, 11:04 AM (18,117 Views)
Patti
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Thanks for posting the link, Bill!
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ostrich2
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Raptorman,Dec 9 2007
08:00 PM

Most raptors will drink if thirsty and provided with water.



It looks like perhaps drinking as opposed to getting water from food is more common than I supposed - KetaVancouver posted a video of a bald drinking:

Bald Eagle Drinking
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Patti
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Ostrich, great video! Here's the full description directly off the Bald Eagle Drinking video:

"The eagle sits on the baseball field where there must be a big puddle. Uses claw to remove clumps of mud and grass to get a few good drinks of clear water."
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harpo516
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Raptorman,Dec 12 2007
08:24 PM
I keep trying to tell you folks that many sources are inaccurate or at best conflicting in information. As an example the Eaglepedia, as a close source, is full of both......... Bill :D

Eaglepedia is a random collection of information that is available in published books and online web sites. Over the many years that people have studied eagles (and any other subject for that matter) information changes as more conclusive evidence becomes available. Eaglepedia is not a professional presentation but a way to share information as discovered by a common, day-to-day person. It is not nor has it ever been presented as the "final" word on eagles or anything else that might be mentioned there.

It's also meant to hopefully encourage people to take a moment and do a little reserach and looking - to encourage their curiosity as mine was. I am not a biologist - not a trained person in any way as to the particulars of eagles - I'm just someone that wanted to learn a few things about the activities that I've been lucky enough to watch thru the internet!
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Raptorman
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ostrich2
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Harpo,

I think what can happen often (and we've seen this in various discussions in the past) is that when a particular piece of information is posted on a site, it is often drawn from other sites, not necessarily from primary sources. That can lead to things becoming inaccurate, either because it was so in the first place, but even more so what can happen is a lot of the details or the specifics behind the information is lost. Then a characteristic of a species ends up being reported as a blanket statement, when it is correct but only in specific contexts (under certain conditions, only for certain subspecies/races, or particular individuals, etc). The other thing that can happen is information that is meant for one context gets subtly changed into another context in which it no longer applies.

Now that certainly is no reason to abandon such sources - certainly those of us who aren't lucky enough to work with and have direct experience with these birds wouldn't be able to learn anything if we did. It's so tough to know what may be accurate and what isn't - I know personally I tend to get an intuitive feeling looking at a site how much to trust its content at face value - but it's really hard to put into words exactly what that is. For me one of the best things about having a thread like this or like the ones that Peter answers isn't finding out I'm right, but learning that something that the "textbook" says is true has much more to it. I just learned this week that my new favorite song ("Birds of Prey Are Cool") says something misleading about the ferruginous hawk :D
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harpo516
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I do post the link of where the particular information comes from so that folks can visit and read the entire presentation. There is ample opportunity to comment as the information is posted in Chat and in Nest Watch. It is only moved to "eaglepedia" by a moderator at a later time. It is "locked" there so that only the "tidbits" are presented. That particular thread is not for open conversation or the intent would become overwhelming.

I'm glad the raptor thread is available but most times the discussion is way over the head of a regular person looking to just enjoy and learn some general facts - tidbits. Peter has also made himself very available to respond to questions about the eagles and I and others don't hesitate to tap into that resource.

I also try to select tidbits from "reliable" sources but with today's technology and the ability of anyone who would like - to post and maintain sites, well..... you get my drift. I don't dispute what you are saying but just wanted to remind folks that tidbits is not a scientific presentation made by a biologist but just some general information from a regular, day-to-day person.
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ostrich2
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Patti,Dec 12 2007
06:58 PM
I'm still very interested in the Ferruginous hawk and reading more on it. Bill, would it be possible to sight them south of the Central California Valley in the winter? They're quite beautiful! I don't quite understand thier migration. They get to Mexico--it mentions Baja California at times, but it's still a puzzle to me. It appears they're more common in Arizona than Southern California and would enter Mexico from there? But Baja?

I agree it's interesting to find out more about these less "popular" species (if that's the right word), or perhaps lesser known (at least that's my perception, as they don't seem to be mentioned as often, unless it's in a comprehensive reference like a field guide).

The Swainson's hawk and the prairie falcon are two other such species I can think of.
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Raptorman
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Raptorman
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ostrich2
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Actually Bill I think the example you just cited is actually a very good example of the type of situation in which it's probably safe to be somewhat suspicious of the accuracy of the information (or at least it's applicability), even for those of us who have no professional expertise.

What I'm referring to is the common thread that many of these particular items have, which is namely that they make a very general statement about raptors as a group. Although of course many raptor species have similar physiologies and natural histories, and for that reason will be similar in a lot of respects, you're talking about a lot of different individual species, and they will probably differ enough to make almost any blanket statement across the whole group wrong to some extent.

This isn't specific to the topic of raptors either - I've come across the same thing in another area that I have a some knowledge/background in - paleontology. You very often see "dinosaurs" referred to in popular accounts and in the media (the latter unfortunately not being terribly good as far as scientific accuracy goes) as if "the dinosaurs did X", or "dinosaurs lived like Y". But of course "dinosaurs" covers dozens upon dozens of genera. I think because there are no dinosaurs in everyday life this doesn't strike people as strange to say. But it would be like saying "mammals have fur" or "mammals live in forests". or "mammals usually have 3 or 4 young" - of course these sound odd - mammals are far too large and diverse a group to talk about them so generally. Are you talking about mice or rabbits, wolves or human beings?
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Raptorman
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ostrich2
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Raptorman,Dec 14 2007
12:04 AM
It is usually range and population that affect the interest in a species. If the animal is not found near the student or have a population large enough to be "common" it is often "studied" less (it is also more difficult to study). However, modern times and conservation attitudes are making information and interest of uncommon species a priority. Bill :D

In the case of raptors specifically, I gather the popularity/applicability of a species in falconry can also be a significant factor in how much is known about it. The prairie falcon is mentioned a couple of times in the Nick Fox book as a species which has been to some extent imported to the UK for falconry, so I imagine that probably means it is used in NA as well. (Unfortunately as you've mentioned previously although an excellent book because the author resides in the UK it often has relatively little information about the NA-specific species). I'm not sure about the Swainson's hawk.
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