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Discussion of other Raptor species; their anatomy, biology, ecology, etc.
Topic Started: Sep 16 2007, 11:04 AM (18,103 Views)
Patti
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Bill, it's NOT a Cooper's then? Now have to do bird stuff..so will be gone a long while.

Uh, Bill--think we were posting at the same time and I was editing my last post, the one before this. The white tail tip stuff.
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ostrich2
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I have been rather busy the last couple of days and there is a lot happening at work this week, so I haven't had a chance to look at the id pictures too much - although they look like great shots. We closed the sale of my father's house on Tuesday so that has been a major thing out of the way - but there is still so much to do. If I can find the time I will try to think about what I think it is, but if you folks come to a consensus on it don't wait for me on this one. I know when I first saw it my first thought was Coopers, but that was just what struck me first - not necessarily based on anything specific.

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Bea
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Hi Ian, good to hear from you!

After reading the descriptions for all 3 juvies (Gos, Sharpie and Coopers) about a thousand times, I'm still no smarter than last night :lol: . So I will stay with my first instinct and say it's a juvenile Cooper's. I don't see the "noticable notch" where forehead meets the beak like the Sharpie would have. I do think the white tail end is a little broader also. And I think the picture where he's in the tree I can see that the tail feathers decrease in length, vs. Sharpie where they are almost the same length. And, it looks to me that he is at least as big if not bigger than my adult Sharpie. I've taken a hard look at the juvenile Gos also. They are all so darn close. But I'll stick with Juv. Cooper's :X: :X: :X:
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Bea
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Raptorman,Jan 16 2008
06:17 PM
Bea: After learning those photos were shot through several panes of glass that makes them even more amazing. The info on the lens size is helpful. That is a zoom lens but I'm not up to date on the model of camera but assume the "D" signifies it is digital. (Again congratulate your man and tell him when his boss upgrades again I'd be happy to get a chance to use your current camera after you upgrade again. :lol:).

rofl Will do Bill! It is my boss Bill, and I've been throwing hints that he needs a new camera again :lol:
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Bea
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Raptorman,Jan 16 2008
06:17 PM
.....

This bird is a little easier .........

:blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:
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Patti
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Bea, you've inspired me to wash my windows~~ :clk:
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Bea
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Patti,Jan 16 2008
11:10 PM
Bea, you've inspired me to wash my windows~~ :clk:

rofl rofl rofl rofl
Sorry about that!! :lol:
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Raptorman
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edit
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Raptorman
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ostrich2
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Raptorman,Jan 18 2008
01:49 AM

If folks want to also make a fun prediction send me a PM. I will offer a few fun prizes. Books about raptors or prints for the closest 3 dates. You can use as much science as possible or as little, your choice. :wacko: I am about to write some posts on the steps of the breeding season on the Raptorman's Classroom thread. This might help with your prediction or it could throw you off entirely :lol: . Enjoy. Bill
--------------------

Do we have a deadline for making a guess? If one waits long enough your chances get better :D

Did we ever come to a consensus on Bea's bird?
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Patti
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Ostrich, Bea and I think it's a juvie Cooper's and you were leaning the same. So...Bill? :D What will it be? Keep looking or no?

There is something slightly different about the egg-laying time at the PH nest. Not quite the same as the other nests here. Gotta do a little research in AEATT. There were two eggs laid last year, but one had a crack in it...we watched mom eat it live on cam last spring. Two eggs; one hatchling.

Bill, I DID watch The Hawk Is Dying all thet way through and agree with you about the rough handling. Actually, I enjoyed the storyline very much, but had trouble with the bird handling. The film airs again tomorrow on the Sundance Channel at 7 AM on the West coast, so awfully early for those east.

I did notice different facial markings--I missed much of the movie the first time. One of the birds seemed more relaxed than the others...the Red-tail that went for the car trip.

Bill, I thought maybe these stunning Red-tails might be Krider's, but they don't seem to fit there. After looking at Sibleys for some time--and decent internet resources, it does appear that Red-tails can really really vary in appearance, yet those THREE clear white breasts down to the legs threw me. I'm still thinking they might be mutations.

I can say this: The Red-tails flying around here sure don't look like these guys--except for the red tail, of course.
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Raptorman
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ostrich2
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My initial impression that I mentioned briefly a while back was Coopers, and I think I am going to stick with that - mainly because of the really good view of the tail. The tail seems to be quite long, and the Coopers is supposed to have a longer tail than the sharp-shinned. In addition, the tail has the evenly sized bands of dark and white on the tail, and the tail is also got a bit of a rounded shape at the end. My guide states the sharp-shinned has a more squared off tail.
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Raptorman
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Patti
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Raptorman,Jan 19 2008
11:13 AM

I'm uncomfortable with the likelihood of a mutation creating the 3 very similar plumage patterns of the birds used in "The Hawk is Dying" I lean far more toward the Krider subspecies. I have seen many photos and a few birds with all white chest and lower abdomen plumage BUT not in combination with an almost black flight and contour feathers. The red tail in the wild is not always present on all Redtails but in the movie business a "Redtail" can be created by imping. Remember movies are about creating illusions. :lol:  Bill

Bill: Yet another Senior Moment on my part.....it did enter my mind that the movie people tinted the tail--but uh, I forgot. That was a couple of days ago. :wacko:

Ok, so I'm with you on this one...a Krider's subspecies (and I had not considered a subspecies)--with a tint job. Natural vegetable coloring would do the trick, I would think.

But..I would be interested in seeing hawk mutations. A couple of legit websites spoke of them, yet did NOT post pictures...frustrating. From what I can gather from one of my parrot reference books, my now deceased Rosy Bourkes were mutations to start, then they kept breeding the line...and I read that they ARE smaller...and mine were smaller than my normals I still have. I didn't want to upset the breeder because she's a friend, but the Rosy Bourkes looked puny to me compared to the healthier looking normals.

Like I've always felt, you get the good with the bad with mutations. Oranda goldfish, which I've had, are a disaster in my little pond...hard for me to keep for more than 2-3 years and I gave up on them. My vet said their body type is just not really normal. Comets and fantails seem more resistant to issues, in my limited experience. (Think 9 years.)

Because of the mutation parakeets/parrots I've seen, which are expensive at first, I'm reluctant to 100% rule out RT mutations, but do agree with your decision...that these are a Krider's subspecies--with a tinted tail, or maybe their tails can be darker. They just don't look like any RT in these here parts! :lol: These film hawks are really very special looking for RT's.
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