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Topic Started: Oct 25 2011, 05:12 PM (68,370 Views)
Infinite Devil Machine
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A Very Cunning Linguist
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Scrooge McSuck,Jul 17 2012
09:43 PM
Mad Dog,Jul 17 2012
05:41 PM
I think Luger is probably a slightly better worker than Tatanka.

I would consider Lex Luger, pre-WWF, a good enough worker to work at the level of his opponent, but boy did he get lazy in the WWF, so mediocre-at-best Tatanka wins out for me. Then heel-Tatanka was even worse than unmotivated/lazy Luger, so it all balanced out by the end of '94. :P

Honestly, of the four, I'd say Yokozuna's the best worker of the bunch. No big dude should be able to move like that all the time. Sure, he got fat and lost his maneuverability later in his career, but in 1994 he was a Kamala-style decent big-man bumper. He knew his limits, knew when to look invincible. But, he also knew when to take the big bump, even if it was only one big bump.
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Scrooge McSuck
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Yoko was a decent big man, but after watching a lot of his stuff from 1995-96 where his weight crippled all of his potential to even work a 2-minute match without being blown up, I honestly admit my opinion on his earlier stuff to be a bit soured.


On the subject of them and In all fairness, Luger/Yoko from SummerSlam '93 was way better than it had any right to be.
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Erick Von Erich
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I'll probably always stand firm on "they should've pulled the trigger on a Luger title reign at SummerSlam '93".

I remember that Luger seemed to be pretty decent in 97-98, back in WCW. But I'm probably remembering that incorrectly. One thing I do remember is that his Torture Rack finisher looked incredibly lame and weak, around that time. It looked more like you were giving somebody a Bouncy Sideways Piggy Back Ride, instead of a painful submission hold.
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Infinite Devil Machine
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Luger in late 90's WCW was one of the biggest placeholder guys in wrestling. After a couple of years as a top guy he became midcard filler, and then a NWO Wolfpac goon.

And for the entire run of the Wolfpac he was a background player. During interviews and promos you could hang your hat and coat on him he was such a non-entity behind the great talkers that Konnan and Nash were.

And his "Total Package" run, post-Wolfpac, where he and a heel Elizabeth went around flexing and beating guys up with a metal "workout bar" was really rough. Remember, this run included a crappy semi-main even match with Hulk Hogan at SuperBrawl 2000 and jobbing to Meng of all people.

Not great stuff at all.

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Erick Von Erich
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Infinite Devil Machine,Jul 18 2012
11:56 AM
Luger in late 90's WCW was one of the biggest placeholder guys in wrestling. After a couple of years as a top guy he became midcard filler, and then a NWO Wolfpac goon.

And for the entire run of the Wolfpac he was a background player. During interviews and promos you could hang your hat and coat on him he was such a non-entity behind the great talkers that Konnan and Nash were.

My memory says: "August '98" is the cut-off for Luger being significant or even watchable. I remember enjoying his US title swaps with Bret Hart at this time. He was fairly relevant as "nWo Wolfpac Director of Recruiting" and was part of DDP's big push in the same time frame.

When the Wolfpac first started, Luger was a big part. Sure, that whole stable was basically "Nash's Cool Kids Club", but Konnan did very little on the mic aside from saying: "yo yo yo, lemme speak on this! Orale!" I don't think Konnan got his momentum until late in the fall.

Again: "August '98". After that, it was directly downhill for Luger. Joining the "real" nWo in 1999, being Sting's' flunky later in the year, then the "Total Package" in the fall. In early 2000, he had the completely forgettable: "Team Package" with Flair. Then his feud with "The Main Event" Chuck Palumbo in April 2000 as part of the whole "New Blood/Millionaires' Club" angle.

But from his return on the first Nitro until August '98, Luger was a key part of WCW.
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Mad Dog
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If you go back, the Total Package gimmick holds up better as a concept. I think the problem with that gimmick was he had been on tv for a solid 5 years straight at that point and people were burned out on him.

As far as a good 97-98. I think that's accurate. His feud with Hogan was a classic and had IMO the top moment of the entire Monday Night Wars. They turned Luger into this force that was just winning and winning and they made you want to see him get the win over Hollywood. The Nitro win was such a great moment that I don't think the fact that he lost the belt 5 days later even mattered.

If you go into 1998. The U.S. Title switches with Bret Hart were pretty good matches. He also got a huge reaction for joining the Wolfpac despite being in limbo for like 7-8 months before that.
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torturedsoulv1
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To me the problem with Luger is that he didn't improve much as a wrestler over the years.

He looked good in the ring with great wrestlers like Steamboat, Flair and Windham
in the late 80s

And yes him winning the belt from Hogan in 97, the fans were really into it.

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Scrooge McSuck
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While somewhat on the subject of Tatanka, I never understood why they pushed the guy having an undefeated streak for nearly two years, but never put him into a more significant feud over the title, other than a filler role for WrestleMania IX (honestly, if Jannetty wasn't fired the day after the Rumble, Shawn/Marty II had to happen at WM IX). He wasn't "oh my god, I love him" over, but he had a decent enough following and... yes, an UNDEFEATED STREAK. Give him a title and push "his title isn't the only thing on the line, but his undefeated streak as well."
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Scrooge McSuck
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...And while we're on the subject of 1993, damn did Survivor Series '93 have a lot of odd replacements/substitutions/whatevers:


Opener: Mr. Perfect disappears from T.V., and is still advertised through the day of the show, only to be replaced by Randy Savage.


Harts/Knights - Lawler is released/sent home a week before the show because of legal problems, forcing Shawn Michaels into the match, which made zero sense from a booking POV, or for the blowoff for the end of the match.


Doinks - The real Doink doesn't even wrestle (whoever it was at the time...), instead giving us MOM and the BUSHWHACKERS.

Main Event - Tatanka is removed from the show three weeks before it takes place in favor of Undertaker (who was being shoe-horned into a program with Yokozuna), and Pierre was taken out for Crush, probably to push Crush's top of the card(ish) push and... that's all I got. It was a huge mess.
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Mad Dog
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Going back to Kane/Vader. The mask vs. mask match isn't nearly as good as their first match. It felt more like an extended squash match. There was a hint of desperation to the first match and you could feel it in the crowd. It felt like Vader had to stop Kane or no one could.
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Infinite Devil Machine
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Mad Dog,Jul 20 2012
04:06 PM
Going back to Kane/Vader. The mask vs. mask match isn't nearly as good as their first match. It felt more like an extended squash match. There was a hint of desperation to the first match and you could feel it in the crowd. It felt like Vader had to stop Kane or no one could.

Kane and Vader's Pay-Per-View match was also a bit sloppy. I've never seen so many aborted/botched/"oh shit, I'm going the wrong way" Irish whips in one match. The whole time they didn't seem to know how to transition from move to move.

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Mad Dog
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The Mask vs. Mask was kind of disjointed I agree.
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Scrooge McSuck
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Thinking about WWF PPV's from 1994, take a look at some matches that closed the show...


Royal Rumble - The Rumble Match with the dumbest finish at the time, when everyone and their mother knows Luger touched first. More rapid intervals really came as a shock too, thanks to the show running long. Sorry, they promised every 2-minutes, then changed it moments before the match. I'm still irked by it. :P


WrestleMania - Bret vs. Yokozuna. It was OK.


KOTR - Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler - This show began the "New Generation" slogan, and we pick two part-time guys with a combined age of 85 and four decades+ of experience between them as the go home match. I made sure to add the last part, thanks to several "new gernation" guys being up there in age (Hall and Nash).


SummerSlam - Undertaker vs. "Undertaker". Ew.


Survivor Series - The Casket Match rematch no one ever wanted, with no one giving Yokozuna a hope in hell of winning a match this high profile ever again. It sucked, and was responsible for Undertaker's PPV matches with I.R.S., King Kong Bundy, and Kama in 1995, so that's a double whammy.
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Erick Von Erich
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Finished converting my January/February '89 tape, including the Royal Rumble. As a young mark, I thought it was kinda' cool that Big John Studd won as he was sort of a 'tweener in the match until the very end. He kept shoving away Red Rooster, Hercules and Bruti so he could work on Akeem.

Now, looking at it, it's a pretty terrible finish. Not just because Studd was gone a few months later. It's a very mediocre ending to what had been a stacked match. Going into the event, I don't think I knew about the February "Main Event" coming up, so I kinda' expected the big Mega Powers split to happen at the end of the Rumble. That would've been an improvement: have it come down to Twin Towers vs. Mega Powers and pull the trigger on the Savage heel turn, there. Or even Mega Powers vs. Bad News Brown. The good guys miscommunicate, one goes out, pulls the other out and the bad guy wins.

I see why they did it for "The Main Event"; promote WMV on national free TV, instead of PPV. But I don't think even the dimmest mark turned on "The Main Event" thinking the Mega Powers would still be buddies at the close of the show. Especially when we got the opening montage of all their storyline moments, set to the tune of "You're a Friend of Mine".

At least "The Main Event" got to show us Hogan tossing around the Rockers and Bret Hart, backstage.
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Scrooge McSuck
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I forgot how much of that March '87 episode of SNME really pushed everything towards WrestleMania. The Battle Royal was well done, taking Hogan and Andre out of the match, but also giving them minimal contact with each other without completely ripping fans off.

My favorite bit is the Roddy Piper video. I don't think a song other than Sinatra's "My Way" could sum up Roddy Piper's WWF Run from that period, and using that to clips of him being a complete ASS to anyone and everyone is a timeless clip that is lost to the WWF's (sorry, WWE's) "can't use real music" rule.
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