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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 25 2011, 05:12 PM (68,338 Views) | |
| Scrooge McSuck | Oct 6 2014, 06:06 PM Post #751 |
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I'll get you next time, toilet!
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From the October 19th, 1992 WON. Nothing about the list of options, but it does paint a picture at what a desperate time this was...
October 26th...
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| Infinite Devil Machine | Oct 6 2014, 09:05 PM Post #752 |
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A Very Cunning Linguist
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Dude, I completely agree. Crush could have been a great foil for a Yokozuna feud. Hell, I could see Face Crush/Heel Luger getting some traction in 1993. They had a match on RAW with that alignment and it was really pretty solid. Crush was a way better babyface than he was a heel. As a heel, his heat sequences and wear-down stuff was just kind of boring. As a face, his explosive offense, with his litany of power moves, big clotheslines, and "martial arts" kicks, just seemed to work better. Let's fantasy book Face Crush in 1993. Crush/Yokozuna - For the WWF Title Crush/Lex Luger Crush/Curtis Hughes - Hughes comes in, squashes job guys and a handful of lower card guys and calls out Crush, looking for a "real challenge". Crush/Ludvig Borga - Crush plays the Marty Jannetty role and gets taken out by Borga, helping to establish Borga as a big time player. Heck, go with Crush/Doink - That feud had its moments, but just don't drag it out for 75 months. Also, I could see Crush/Bam-Bam Bigelow as a feud with some traction. Speaking of guys the WWF dropped the ball on; Anybody else think Adam Bomb should have stayed babyface in 1993 and worked against Yokozuna for a bit. Adam Bomb had some talent and he had a great look for a big, badass face. And those goggles would have sold like gangbusters if he hadn't been a heel. |
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| Scrooge McSuck | Oct 6 2014, 09:10 PM Post #753 |
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I'll get you next time, toilet!
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Adam Bomb without the whack-you-over-the-head-incase-you-didn't-get-it gimmick definitely had potential, but pairing him with Harvey Wippleman was a death sentence. Even Sid seemed less cool when he turned heel in '92 and aligned himself with Wippleman. SID. LESS COOL. 1993 is one of those years where it seemed like it could've been so much more with just a little bit more creative effort. The talent was there, it just needed the puzzle pieces to be moved a little bit here, a little bit there. |
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| Infinite Devil Machine | Oct 6 2014, 09:14 PM Post #754 |
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A Very Cunning Linguist
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Having Harvey Wippleman as your manager in the WWF was the equivalent of hiring your brother-in-law to be your business partner in your new start-up business because he took half a year of business economics in Community College. He never really helped anyone, never made anybody any money, but he was a nice guy who did his job, didn't rub anybody the wrong way, and was a loyal, quiet company guy. That's Harvey for you. He wasn't "cool", but he was a certain kind of dependable for his position in the company. |
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| Scrooge McSuck | Oct 6 2014, 09:24 PM Post #755 |
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I'll get you next time, toilet!
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I'm sure he's a decent guy, but that doesn't translate into a viable heat generating manager. In his defense, it's not like he was given the cream of the crop like managers did in the Hulkamania/Rock n' Rasslin Boom. Heenan at one time managed Rick Rude, Andre The Giant, Arn Anderson, and Tully Blanchard. Harvey Wippleman had Well Dunn and Kwang. A HUGE swing in talent level and card position. |
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| lucaskieren | Oct 7 2014, 03:00 PM Post #756 |
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The night is dark and full of spoilers
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It baffles me how during the late 80's why they didnt't put the WWF Championship on Ted Dibiasie? They could have had him win the tournament at Wrestlemania IV lose the title at Summerslam 1998 and have Andre face Hogan at Summerslam as well. |
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| Scrooge McSuck | Oct 7 2014, 03:01 PM Post #757 |
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I'll get you next time, toilet!
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WWF was more oif a happy ending company. As much as the Dibiase rumor was circulated, it didn't make sense for WWF's formula. Until Ric Flair won the WWF Title at the '92 Rumble, the last image was always the babyface triumphant. Even at Survivor Series '87, Andre's win was spoiled by Hogan's return to the ring to chase him off and celebrating. IT also didn't feature a title on the line. |
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| lucaskieren | Oct 7 2014, 03:40 PM Post #758 |
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The night is dark and full of spoilers
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Ok thanks that makes complete sense to me now. That's why in between The Iron Sheik and Sarge's title reign in 1991 there was only face champions. Was the WWF targetting at the kids at the time? Sorry just i'm only 17 and just trying to understand the historical features of the business. Also, at the time was the NWA/WCW when Jim Crocket sold to Ted Turner was they aimed at kids so what i am trying to get at is, was the whole pro wrestling business aimed at kids or just the WWF? |
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| Erick Von Erich | Oct 7 2014, 03:53 PM Post #759 |
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I'm Big E and I tell it like it is
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I know the common, modern, rebuttal is "DiBiase HIMSELF said that he was to win the WWF title at WMIV in his shoot interview". Yet I have a hard time believing that. There's no way to prove he's incorrect, either, so the rumor will continue. I'm probably repeating myself, but the tournament was always going to have a babyface winning. The "happy ending" concept that Scrooge mentioned. At the time of the tournament announcement (Feb 88), it seemed Bam Bam Bigelow was the odds-on kayfabe favorite. The tournament bracket was modified a few weeks later (same guys, just two matches flip-flopped) and that's probably when the decision to give it to Savage was official. Besides, it'd be bad booking to have DiBiase be given the title by insidious means (The Main Event), get it stripped away, then they have a tournament and the Ultimate Evil Bad Guy who finally took the title from Hulk Hogan wins AGAIN?! I doubt that. Another key component that would've prevented DiBiase as champ was the WWF's unofficial late 80's rule of "no clean sweep of babyfaces or heels as champs". If you pick a period from 1985 to 1989, the titles were always split up 1-to-2 or 2-to-1. Having nothing but heels holding the titles was usually a JCP/NWA thing. Example: March 1986 (post WM 2) Tags: British Bulldogs IC: Savage WWF: Hogan March 1987 (post WM 3) Tags: Hart Foundation IC: Steamboat WWF: Hogan March 1988 (post WM4) Tags: Demolition IC: Honky Tonk Man WWF: Savage The only time I can think of when good guys held ALL the titles was around the time of Survivor Series '89, when Hogan, Warrior and Demolition all held the belts. Didn't last long, as the Demos were quickly dethroned by Andre/Haku. After Survivor Series 1988, the Demos were sort of tweeners, so I don't think you can count that as a three-title sweep for the babyfaces. The Demos didn't REALLY become babyfaces until WM5. That's when they started playing to the crowd and facing other heels (NOT named Powers of Pain). Clean sweep for the faces, again, right after SummerSlam '90, with Hogan, Harts and Kerry Von Erich. But then you get into "90's WWF booking", which is not our exact topic. |
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| Scrooge McSuck | Oct 7 2014, 04:04 PM Post #760 |
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I'll get you next time, toilet!
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WWF started targeting children with the Hulk Hogan cartoon show, but mostly stuck with traditional wrestling and characters. As the 80's progress, it became more and more a thing. By the turn of ther 90's, even more, and from 94-96, it was nothing but cartoony crap targeted to children. WCW/JCP mostly stuck with the "we're a real wrestling company" label, but snuck in bizarre gimmicks here and there, like the Ding Dongs or Arachnaman. It wasn't until Hogan's arrival where campy took over, and even that only lasted for a couple of years (at most). |
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| Mad Dog | Oct 7 2014, 04:09 PM Post #761 |
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ho ho who the hell are you?
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He was originally supposed to win the WWF Title at Wrestlemania IV. The plans were changed because the Honky Tonk Man refused to lose the IC Title to Randy Savage. So they changed gears and put the title on Savage instead. |
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| Mad Dog | Oct 7 2014, 04:14 PM Post #762 |
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ho ho who the hell are you?
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Checking my WONs from around that time, it looks like they panicked after his dry run with the belt did poorly on the house show circuit and eventually went with Savage instead. |
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| Scrooge McSuck | Oct 7 2014, 08:43 PM Post #763 |
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I'll get you next time, toilet!
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Going back to my random 1992 observations: Up to the Prime Time Wrestling that forced a major adjustment to the Survivor Series Main Event: Mr. Perfect's face turn and return from retirement. It's a well done turn, with Perfect laughing off Savage picking him as his partner, but constantly being talked down by Heenan and company kind of irked him enough to say what the fuck ever and team with Savage after all. Once the angle with Flair finished up, there was no need to keep Hennig face. This program alone was organic fuel for a face run, but sticking with it was in poor choice. Probably my favorite match of his from his year run as a face is the one where he acted very tweener, against Hart at King of the Ring. |
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| Scrooge McSuck | Oct 7 2014, 10:08 PM Post #764 |
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I'll get you next time, toilet!
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Did I mention they kept the Nailz and Big Boss Man program going for about 6 months? And the only match they had was the last night of their program? There's slow burning good feuds and then there's needlessly dragging stuff out. It wasn't a bad angle, but Nailz was such a one-dimensional heel, that keeping him around to do anything else would make little sense... so they originally had Nailz v. WARRIOR on the books (and promos were taped), before changing it to Nailz v. Undertaker. Then Nailz went and choked out Vince over a PPV payoff. |
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| Scrooge McSuck | Oct 8 2014, 08:41 AM Post #765 |
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I'll get you next time, toilet!
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The 1992 Survivor Series is such an oddly booked show. First, Bret vs. Shawn is the co-headliner, but I don't remember there being a reason for this taking place. It was just kind of announced. Giving Shawn the IC Title two weeks before and making it only for the WWF Title all but guarantees Bret retaining. Giving us a weak ending to Perfect/Savage vs. Flair/Razor was just that: weak. Flair could've eaten a pinfall to Perfect, even if it was a surprise roll up, since Razor needed protection for staying at the top of the card for the next couple of months. Speaking of surprise roll-ups, that 8-Man Tag was awful. Why put Money Inc. at the disadvantage, have them pin Typhoon, and then 10-seconds later eat a surprise roll up? The most heatless match on the card that actually had an angle behind it. Big Boss Man pins Nailz clean, despite Boss Man being sent down the card and Nailz being paired up with the Undertaker for co-headlining matches. I'm OK with Boss Man getting a cheap DQ win, except they booked themselves into a corner making the nightstick legal. Undertaker vs. Kamala had the first of many "freak out the opponent by custom making the casket" build up, and I guess it was OK, but the match was still negative star crap. |
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