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Topic Started: Oct 25 2011, 05:12 PM (68,304 Views)
HeenanandMonsoon
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I remember Raw in 2002 being really bad. Especially those few months into the brand split. Smackdown was clearly better in the roster department.
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Scrooge McSuck
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Not drafted, but randomly pushed as a top face for a few weeks: Bradshaw.


So we've got...

1. Unmotivated Undertaker
2. REALLY unmotivated Stone Cold
3. EVEN MORE UNMOTIVATED X-Pac
4. Kevin Nash for about a day and a half
5. Scott Hall
6. Big Show
7. Bradshaw

Kane, RVD, and Booker T are fine, but guess what... in the next 12-months, all were steam-rolled by the HHH machine. Raw got Eddie Guerrero for about a month before he jumped to Smackdown, which already was home for Angle, Jericho, Benoit (after a week or so on Raw after being drafted on SD to begin with), The Rock, a motivated Hulk Hogan, Edge, the soon-to-debut Rey Mysterio... yeah, night and day.
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Erick Von Erich
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Just wondering, did TNA ever happen to book a 3-way dance between Homicide, the masked Suicide/Manik and Sabu? Then you'd have the trifecta for "suicidal, homicidal, genocidal".


Yes...file this under Stupid Linguistic Wrestling ideas, with the team of Greg "The Hammer" Valentine and Kevin "Nailz" Kelly.
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HeenanandMonsoon
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I'm so disappointed the legendary team of ''Hammer and Nailz'' never made a comeback and returned for the Smackdown tag tournament.
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HeenanandMonsoon
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Looking back on the Hogan/Mcmahon feud from 2003, I'm surprised they didn't just wait till the next year and have the match at WM 20. It would of made more sense since it was at MSG and 20 years since Hogan won his first WWF Title.
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Scrooge McSuck
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I was just watching King of the Ring '02 (because... I don't know) and I forgot they had teased a Hogan/Vince program as early as the brand split (I blocked the main event of Judgment Day '02 out of my head).

That got me thinking... we all know the stories of Hogan's unwillingness to job unless it was under extraordinary circumstances or for his own personal gain as the 90's rolled along, and especially in WCW.

For whatever reason, when he came back in 2002, it seemed like he jobbed more often than he won, and even then he was usually winning without looking strong (beat HHH for the title with excessive interference, beat Flair on an episode of Raw thanks to Austin, beats Jericho thanks to HHH, you get the point). His last appearance before hiatus is the clean job to Brock on Smackdown, and then there's the rumors he wanted to come back for a rematch and win the belt at MSG, but that was shot down in favor of pushing Big Show after 18 months of job duty.

Outside of that run, it seems like every time he came back, it was on an incredibly short leash where he was expected to do one thing (I forgot the plans in '03, but in '05, the series of matches with HBK, putting over Orton in '06) and for some reason had plans re-worked or was just shown the door without a blowoff (the Mr. America crap in '03). I always questioned how the 2002 run happened. Was Vince trying to prove to everyone that Hogan was willing to play ball, and at the same time Hogan was willing to do whatever until he could pull a power play? Vince making empty promises (as if that's a surprise) in exchange for the "humbling"? Just an odd scenario, especially since as mentioned, we got "the old Hulk Hogan" in his following runs.
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HeenanandMonsoon
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With Hogan jobbing so much in 02, maybe it was his way of ''giving back'' to the business. But that's a big stretch imo. I really think he was lobbying to get the belt at MSG knowing him and his ego.

I'm watching both Raw and Smackdown from 03 and the ''Mr. America'' angle was dumb as hell. I forgot all about it till I watched the episode when he ''debuts''. awful awful stuff.
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Scrooge McSuck
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I never got the "guy comes back under a mask" gimmick. I know it was an old school tactic to skirt around "loser leaves town" stipulations when a face is so red hot they had to keep them around beyond that match, but logically it means the stipulation is flawed and it makes everyone either look incompetent for not realizing it or sleazy for blatantly allowing the violation of the stips. The only time I can think of where it was accepted was when Bill Watts had JYD do it in Mid-South. I guess the first time the Midnight Rider was used was good, too, but then you got the Midnight Rider over and over, you had the Giant Machine, the Yellow Dog in WCW, and of course, Mr. America. I'm sure I forgot some (Edit: JUAN Cena), but it just never tickled my fancy.
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Scrooge McSuck
I'll get you next time, toilet!
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I'm watching more random DVD compilations, and this time it's the Fall of 1994 (the weeks leading into Survivor Series, to be exact).

Featured:

The debut of the Action Zone, with a ***+ match between Bret and Owen for the WWF Title, and the next week is the famous Kliq Tag Match that easily hits ****.

Undertaker tormenting Yokozuna with a casket during an IC Title Match with Razor Ramon.

The Smoking Gunns having a decent match with Tatanka and Bam Bam Bigelow on Superstars.

Bob Backlund getting lots of feature time against the 1-2-3 Kid, Lex Luger, and Bob Holly.

The last WWF appearance for Randy Savage.

The Debut of ALDO MONTOYA and his refusing the offer to join Dibiase's Corporation.


Ummm... yeah, the roster depth is considerably weak after a certain point when Dibiase is approaching a guy wearing a jock strap on his face.
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HeenanandMonsoon
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How big is your wrestling dvd archives Scrooge?
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Scrooge McSuck
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Rough estimation, probably near 200 unique DVD's produced by WWE (a good majority of their non-PPV releases since 2002), and at least 500 discs of footage mostly comprised of WWF footage ranging from 1985 through 2002. Back in the day, I actually kept detailed records and lists of every single tape and DVD I had, but then I purged all but the official WWE DVD's in 2008. Now I just have a mental note of what I likely have, but probably have burned some stuff over and over without noticing.
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HeenanandMonsoon
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Very nice. I never kept lists of my whole collection but I can tell you I have a ton of stuff. Every PPV ever along with full seasons of shows. I even got some of the countdown shows they had back in the day.

I also still have my old Coliseum Videos as well. I converted them all to discs awhile back though cause I know those vhs tapes won't last forever.
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Scrooge McSuck
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More random comments: the one thing that I really disliked about the Attitude Era (or stuff from 98-99) is that the crowds couldn't give two shits about the wrestling, and thus the match quality suffers because there's more emphasis on gimmicks and bullshit.

Anyway, this happens to be around the same time WWF decided to do tapings along with Raw, Heat, and Shotgun for a Spanish-market weekly series featuring foreign talent (I think it was a deal with CMLL). Of all the eras to do this, you pick the one where nobody was going to give a shit? I guess we found a show lower than "C" level when the only WWF names regularly featured are guys like Papi Chulo (a.k.a Essa Rios), Giant Silva, and Funaki. The biggest name I've seen used from their roster was Val Venis, and it was cool to see him cut his promos in Spanish (he had decent levels of success in Mexico before his WWF run).
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HeenanandMonsoon
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Scrooge McSuck,Sep 4 2016
08:14 PM
More random comments: the one thing that I really disliked about the Attitude Era (or stuff from 98-99) is that the crowds couldn't give two shits about the wrestling, and thus the match quality suffers because there's more emphasis on gimmicks and bullshit.

I am a fan of the Attitude Era but your right on the money with the actual wrestling during those years. It was all about the gimmicks, foul language, and T&A.

I dare say the Rumble in 95 is better than the Rumble in 99. Man was that one terrible.
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Infinite Devil Machine
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HeenanandMonsoon,Sep 4 2016
10:25 PM
Scrooge McSuck,Sep 4 2016
08:14 PM
More random comments: the one thing that I really disliked about the Attitude Era (or stuff from 98-99) is that the crowds couldn't give two shits about the wrestling, and thus the match quality suffers because there's more emphasis on gimmicks and bullshit.

I am a fan of the Attitude Era but your right on the money with the actual wrestling during those years. It was all about the gimmicks, foul language, and T&A.

I dare say the Rumble in 95 is better than the Rumble in 99. Man was that one terrible.

Remember that the "Love Her Or Leave Her" street fight between Shane McMahon and Test at SummerSlam 1999 was a lot of people's match of the year that year and that just goes to show you how kinda.. eh? ... a lot of the in-ring stuff was during the Attitude Era. Things started picking up in-ring when Malenko, Saturn, Eddie and that Canadian Dude (Briss Kenwoit or something?) came in and then after the WWF bought out ECW and WCW and you had guys like Rob Van Dam, Booker T, and the like mixing it up and creating fun, fresh matches.

I'm an apologist for the 1999 Rumble match, because I think it was as well put together as it could've been given the field of participants. Imagine Austin beating on McMahon and wading through Steve Blackman, Dan Severn, Tiger Ali Singh, The Blue Meanie, Droz, and Edge. Nobody wanted to see that. WWF's roster wasn't the deepest at the time and they needed those lower card guys and jobbers to fill things out. They could have front loaded the thing, with Austin hammering McMahon and then Bossman is out third, Shamrock fourth, Test fifth, Mabel sixth and so on. But then what? They drag Austin out, beat him up, Mabel - I dunno- splashes him through the announce table to injure him. Medics come down and take Austin out. Then what? You have the entire Corporation in there, along with Vince's hired gun, Mabel. So you do the DX vs. The Corporation and go from there? That's 10 guys. 10 guys on a roster that's as deep as a kiddie pool on the top of the card. No Rock, no Foley, for whatever reason, no Undertaker.

How do you book that with a bunch of lower card scrubs, jobbers, Kane, Kurrgan, Jarrett, Owen, Venis, D'Lo, Mark Henry, and Chyna left to come out?

The match was overbooked, because it had to be. Because they needed to drum up as much excitement during the down time as they could. Once you get through the jobber parade and Austin comes back, it becomes a really fun match. DX vs. The Corporation, Jarrett and Owen and Venis and D'Lo getting to look good, Chyna's historic first, and Triple H calling his spot ("If I throw you, can you hang on?") through a megaphone at Val Venis. Its messy, but its fun.
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