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2011-12 MLB Off-Season Thread
Topic Started: Nov 7 2011, 01:48 PM (3,864 Views)
Mad Dog
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They gave Pujols a no trade clause so they'll be stuck with him for the entire contract.
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torturedsoulv1
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Scrooge McSuck,Dec 8 2011
11:28 PM
I didn't realize Pujols is already 32, but then again, he has been in the Majors since 2001. 10 years, even in the AL, is a huge risk, no matter how awesome you are. Look at A-Rod. He's already in a serious decline from his prime, and he's got like 6-7 years left on his contract.

A-Rod was the first one I thought of when I heard the Angels signed Pujols for 10 years. I know he is a great player, but signing any player who is 30 or older for 7 years or more is insane. Actually signing any player of any position of any age for more than 5 years is insane, because of the major injury factor at any age and skills rapidly declining for those 35 or more.

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torturedsoulv1
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Erick Von Erich,Dec 8 2011
03:40 PM
Probably the Angels' biggest signing since then snuck in and grabbed Vladimir Guerrero, circa 2004. I think the Cubs and the Yankees were also in the running, back then.

Really sucks for the Cardinals and their fans, as their lineup loses a lot without Pujols in it. Immediate question: who plays first? Lance Berkman?

It may suck for the Cards fans, but the Cards were wise not to sign him for that long at that price.

He led the team to 2 WS titles so unlike the Lebron leaves the Cavs fiasco of last year, at least Pujols was a winner with his team before leaving. Granted Pujols is not from St Louis or Missouri (meaning Lebron was from Ohio), but people are saying Pujols betrayed the Cards like Lebron betrayed the Cavs
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Scrooge McSuck
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I would disagree 100% with that with Pujols, and even now, I've warmed up to Lebron again. It all falls under "nothing personal, just business." I still think Pujols leaving hurts, but he wasn't "The Chosen One" and savior of the franchise, and never misled people into a hour long primetime special to announce his new home. Maybe Pujols didn't want to play for Mike Matheny or whoever the fuck the Cards signed on as manager, maybe it was all about money. Only Pujols knows. He lead his team to the WS twice, so he's leaving a champion, not walking away a quitter hooking up with a couple of All-Stars hoping to find an easy championship.

Okay, so maybe I still dislike Lebron a little, but I'm mostly over him now.
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Mad Dog
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I think deep down, Cards fans are happy the team didn't hamstring themselves with that kind of contract.
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Scrooge McSuck
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Early reports are claiming Ryan Braun tested positive for PED's... lame. What is his excuse? He ate a nutritional bar and didn't read the ingredients? He took magic over-the-counter-pills without consulting his doctors?
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The Swigg Lebowski
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What's worse is that he supposedly tested positive BEFORE winning the MVP. So now they gave the award to someone they already knew was gonna be suspended
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Erick Von Erich
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Mad Dog,Dec 10 2011
02:51 AM
I think deep down, Cards fans are happy the team didn't hamstring themselves with that kind of contract.

Not to turn it to the point of absurdity, but that implies the following scenario amongst Cardinal fans in 2012:

-Guy A: "Dammit! Pujols woulda' knocked that winning run in! Can't believe we just lost 2 of 3 to the Cubs!"
-Guy B: "Yes, but think of the money the team is saving. They have payroll flexibility!"
-Guy A: "......."

I get what you're saying, though-- they can take that Pujols money and spend it on two or more younger guys. Or productive "veterans" under age 32.

You hope the Cardinals get that. The whole plan is destroyed if they go and do something stupid, like lock-up Matt Holliday for 10 years. 2 years and $14 million to Rafael Furcal is borderline stupid, but it's only 2 years.

And not to be a contrarian for the sake of being one, but a "no-trade" clause does not necessarily mean the Angels are stuck with Pujols for that time. We've seen it before where a guy waives his "no-trade" clause and he's shipped out. Larry Walker had a "no-trade" clause in the silly contract he signed with the Rockies about 10-12 years ago. Lasted until 2004 when he went to the Cardinals. Same with Mike Hampton in 2001, who signed an insane contract, but was sent out via a 3-team trade circa 2003. Or A-Rod's Texas deal in 2001.

The "no-trade" thing is kind of a gray area, as it basically means the team has to talk to the guy before moving him. It's there to avoid 11th hour GM deals where a guy walks into the clubhouse the next day and finds he's been traded.
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torturedsoulv1
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Scrooge McSuck,Dec 9 2011
10:10 PM
I would disagree 100% with that with Pujols, and even now, I've warmed up to Lebron again. It all falls under "nothing personal, just business." I still think Pujols leaving hurts, but he wasn't "The Chosen One" and savior of the franchise, and never misled people into a hour long primetime special to announce his new home. Maybe Pujols didn't want to play for Mike Matheny or whoever the fuck the Cards signed on as manager, maybe it was all about money. Only Pujols knows. He lead his team to the WS twice, so he's leaving a champion, not walking away a quitter hooking up with a couple of All-Stars hoping to find an easy championship.

Okay, so maybe I still dislike Lebron a little, but I'm mostly over him now.

I agree with you on Pujols. When I put some people are saying he betrayed the Cards, I wasn't saying I was one of them

LeBron is an asshole for doing the primetime special. That made it much worse. And Cleveland fans feel betrayed as he is from Ohio. i was very happy when LeBron choked in the Finals and I still am
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torturedsoulv1
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Erick Von Erich,Dec 15 2011
10:19 AM
Mad Dog,Dec 10 2011
02:51 AM

And not to be a contrarian for the sake of being one, but a "no-trade" clause does not necessarily mean the Angels are stuck with Pujols for that time. We've seen it before where a guy waives his "no-trade" clause and he's shipped out. Larry Walker had a "no-trade" clause in the silly contract he signed with the Rockies about 10-12 years ago. Lasted until 2004 when he went to the Cardinals. Same with Mike Hampton in 2001, who signed an insane contract, but was sent out via a 3-team trade circa 2003. Or A-Rod's Texas deal in 2001.

The "no-trade" thing is kind of a gray area, as it basically means the team has to talk to the guy before moving him. It's there to avoid 11th hour GM deals where a guy walks into the clubhouse the next day and finds he's been traded.

Very good point and one that I think I brought up on Bleacherreport

There are plenty of times players waive no trades. Usually when they are toward the end of their careers and want to go to a team that has a chance of winning the WS

Pujols has won 2 already, so maybe that would not motivate him to waive it

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Erick Von Erich
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Oh golly....

Pittsbrugh Pirates Holiday Card

They spent way too much time on this thing; filming videos, creating a cheesy Flash interface... sheesh. I'm sure other teams have them, as well. Just type in their official site and add "/holidaycard" at the end.
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Mad Dog
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Cards signed Carlos Beltran to a 2 year 26 million deal. As a Reds fan I would like to thank the Cards for making this move.
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Scrooge McSuck
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Anyone other than Barry Larkin have a hope in hell of getting enough votes for the Hall of Fame, this year? I don't think any of the first-timers will get in, and I would put money on most, if not all, not getting enough votes to be back next year. I love Bernie Williams, but he's a Monument Park guy for the Yankees, Javy Lopez had a few outstanding seasons melded in with a lot of mediocre/bad ones, Vinny Castilla was good in Colorado, and Brad Radke was really good for about 4-5 years.


Maybe, MAYBE, Lee Smith or Jack Morris will get votes, but I doubt it. Morris' career ERA is ugly as sin and he never won a Cy Young, and Smith is kind of just dead in the water in terms of votes, at this point. Jeff Bagwell is still on the ballot, and deserves serious consideration, at least. He's never been linked to PED's, so that should help his case.


Edit: Morris' post-season performances, especially Game 7 of the 1991 World Series, are part of his strongest arguments for induction, but it's not enough, I don't think to sway people with a career ERA of nearly 4, and "only" 250 wins in an 18 season career.
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Erick Von Erich
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I've heard some cases for Alan Trammell, this year. Supposedly some voters are comparing Trammell's to Larkin's and are re-considering.

I'm sick of always hearing about Jack Morris's '91 World Series game as HOF ammunition (he also had a decent WS outing in 1984...going 2-0 and pitching two complete games, but you rarely hear about those). Then people forget that he went 0-2 and got bombed in the 1992 World Series.

His overall career wasn't that amazing. From 1988 to 1994 he had two good seasons ('91 and '92), boosted by World Series-winning teams.

I'd pick Bagwell over Morris and Trammell, but with the Jim Rice Factor, I wouldn't be surprised if they get in.

Of the new arrivals on the ballot, I'd say Bernie has the best chance of making it to next year. Everybody else will be off the ballot in 2013. 20 years ago, it seemed like Ruben Sierra would have a chance, but his career kinda' plummeted straight into Mediocre Village after he left Texas.

Of the other returning guys on the ballot; I'd kick Larry Walker's ass off just on general principle. I think Dale Murphy's percentage might go up, but not enough for people to get excited about next year.
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Scrooge McSuck
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Apologizes if it's been told before, but what about kicking Walker's ass off on general principle? :)
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