Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Da Wrestling Board. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
2017 HOF election; Takes place next thursday
Topic Started: Jan 10 2017, 10:34 PM (728 Views)
torturedsoulv1
true maharajah Jinder Mahal
[ *  *  * ]
I doubt Clemens or Bonds ever get voted in
Ivan Rodriguez - same reason

Raines will get in this year, his final year on the ballot

Bagwell will make it

schilling should, but he didn't get a lot of support last year
Edgar Martinez should be in, but like Schilling probably won't

Vladimir Guerrero tough call, I say he makes it

Trevor Hoffman in as well
Lee smith doesn't make it on his final year

No to Larry walker, Fred Mcgriff orJeff Kent

And while I'm a huge Yankees fan - no way to Jorge Posada. I'll be stunned if he even gets 10%

Messina is a tough call. I'll say no

So my who deserves it are Raines, bagwell, Hoffman, Guerrero, schilling and Martinez

Schilling and Martinez won't though
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Erick Von Erich
Member Avatar
I'm Big E and I tell it like it is
[ *  *  * ]
I'm not into Raines, as I never really got the sense that he was an "elite" class outfielder during his days. Pretty good-- yes. But not Hall of Fame good. I get the sense that he's become something of a modern stat-head oddity, due to the decline of the stolen base. "Hey, look at this guy's stolen base numbers! He's Hall of Fame!"

I think Ivan/Pudge Rodriguez goes in, though. I'm actually kinda' expecting it this year. Main reason is that writers LOVED him throughout his career. He was never really a "steroid creation". He had steady numbers, but never the stupid "OMG/video game" stats. All his Gold Gloves help, since those can't be traced to PEDs. He also carried the 2003 Marlins team through the playoffs and a World Series title. By all reports, he was also a good "clubhouse guy" and played his last two years as essentially a mentor to the Nationals pitching staff. Oh, and he's a catcher. Writers love catchers.

Mike Piazza was the higher suspect of PEDs...and he's in. So Pudge should be in, too.

Of the other ballot returnees, I'd go for:
-Trevor Hoffman
-Jeff Bagwell
-Edgar Martinez (a trip to Seattle changed my mind on him)

I'm a big Lee Smith fan, but I don't think his chances of getting in are realistic.

Of the first-timers, I think Vladimir Guerrero has a shot. Manny Ramirez will probably get some votes, too. I see both of them sticking on the ballot for the next few years; providing Guerrero doesn't get elected this year. The rest of the first-timers will probably be "one and done" in terms of being on the ballot. And I would love to see that dick Larry Walker fall off the ballot. I could see Gary Sheffield gaining some support, though.

Here's the list, BTW:http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2017.shtml
<!---Hit Paydirt with K-Dirt--->
DWS Apparel Store- Buy. Consume. Obey.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Scrooge McSuck
I'll get you next time, toilet!
[ *  *  * ]
I'm surprised to see the support of Tim Raines after so many years as one of those guys who just kind hangs in the middle with too few votes to be removed, but too many away from being a lock.

Pudge goes in either this or next year, depends on the "taint of steroids" reasoning bullshit used to punish people.

Bonds and Clemens will go in. Eventually.

Hoffman is in, just depends on how worthy the voters see him. If Bagwell gets voted in, I see them holding back Hoffman cause God forbid they put more than 3-4 people in the same year for once. Yeah, 5 people in one year means probably maybe 1 or 2 next year (or 0, depends on the "stubborn child" argument of all voters), but if this is truly about honoring the best and not being about business, then do it.

Have I mentioned how much I hate the bullshit voting policies and childish reasoning`? Not wanting too many in the same year, wasn't friendly to the press, was suspected but not confirmed for steroid use... If they're good enough to vote them in, vote them the fuck in.

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
HeenanandMonsoon
Member Avatar
dWb Superstar
[ *  *  * ]
Pete Rose is never getting in is he?
Founder of the Humanoid Nation Community on PSN

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Erick Von Erich
Member Avatar
I'm Big E and I tell it like it is
[ *  *  * ]
Pete could get in, posthumously. Three big reasons why he probably will not, in his lifetime:

1- He was busted for gambling, which is baseball's cardinal sin. Even worse than PEDs. The Black Sox Scandal did a lot of damage, especially to baseball's public relations. It took no less than Babe Ruth to bring it back into favor.

2- The late MLB comissiononer A. Bartlett Giamatti was the one who banned Pete for life. Giamatti is the guy that the quote about "it's a game designed to break your heart" is usually attributed to. Giamatti died shortly after Pete's suspension, and was only in office for about a year (if that). Some feel that it would hurt Giamatti's "legacy" to undo his only notable action. From a broad standpoint: banning Pete Rose was a commissioner's dying wish. This may seem crazy, but I have heard it, first-hand, from a writer with Hall of Fame (and voting) credentials.

3- I think this is the biggie. Pete still hangs out at casinos. Not just Vegas, but the backwoods casinos that cater to old farts. I went to Vegas in 2013 and to the surprise of absolutely NOBODY, there was Pete, "signing autographs" in one of those shitty mall stores connected to the Bellagio (no, I didn't pay for his autograph...then).

My other personal encounter with him was in May 1992. I was young and paid $20 bucks to get him to sign a ball at a card show. The little kid in front of me goes up to his table. Pete sees the kid's Oakland A's hat and says: "Hey, that Mark McGwire's doing pretty well this season. How many do you think he'll hit? I'll betcha' he won't hit 50, wanna' bet on it? I'll bet you an ice cream". The kid just stared, but all the adults looked around as if saying: "did he REALLY say that"? Then Pete spoke up: "oh...ohhh! Forget I said that!"

Even in his documentary "4192: the Crowning of the Hit King", Pete talks about how he had placed a bet with Tony Perez on who would use the new Riverfront stadium bathrooms, first. He doesn't get that gambling wasn't appropriate and has taken NO steps to rectify this or educate himself.

It's like if an athlete was busted for drunk driving...then appeared as the spokesman for SEVERAL beer companies. Heck, even Michael Vick showed more remorse than Pete Rose.


The whole thing is a shame, though. Pete was probably THE "Player of the 70's".
<!---Hit Paydirt with K-Dirt--->
DWS Apparel Store- Buy. Consume. Obey.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
torturedsoulv1
true maharajah Jinder Mahal
[ *  *  * ]
I'll say this from the point of view of someone who has a gambling addiction (I'm 18 + years clean in Gamblers Anonymous)

Erick's #3 point is the big one.

He hasn't really tried to get help

That being said I still think he deserves to be in the HOF as a player
He was caught when he was a manager

He should never be allowed a job in MLB again, even as a ballboy
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
torturedsoulv1
true maharajah Jinder Mahal
[ *  *  * ]
Pudge, bagwell and Raines are in

Hoffman and Guerrero barely miss

Posada is one and done
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Erick Von Erich
Member Avatar
I'm Big E and I tell it like it is
[ *  *  * ]
Tim Wakefield got one vote. Most likely from somebody in Boston.

The minor story coming out of this was to the tune of "Bonds and Clemens increase their chance for next year". Yet next year sees Chipper Jones and Jim Thome arrive on the ballot... plus Johnny Damon to grab that obligatory Worthless Boston Vote. Thome and Jones are highly probable for next year.

Still not excited about Raines. He's the latest Goose Gossage or Jim Rice. Guys whose careers were "Pretty Good" and their baseball cards were 2-5 cents above "common", but made it into the HOF on their final years thanks to writer sympathy. Would've rather had Lee Smith over Tim Raines.
<!---Hit Paydirt with K-Dirt--->
DWS Apparel Store- Buy. Consume. Obey.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Scrooge McSuck
I'll get you next time, toilet!
[ *  *  * ]
I don't think he was a sure-thing Hall of Famer, but Posada deserved more than the <5% he received. As a defensive catcher, he was average in his prime and a liability later, but offensively, he had strong numbers for his position and 5 All-Star appearances isn't a low enough total to shrug it off.

I agree with Pudge and Bagwell getting in, and I think Raines had a strong enough career. I'd guess playing second fiddle to Rickey Henderson hurt, and his cocaine problem in the 80's added to his wait. Hoffman falling shy by 5 votes is terrible, and I'm shocked Vlad did so good on year 1. I expected a strong showing, but not 71%.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Erick Von Erich
Member Avatar
I'm Big E and I tell it like it is
[ *  *  * ]
Scrooge McSuck,Jan 19 2017
10:31 AM
I'd guess playing second fiddle to Rickey Henderson hurt

"Nobody plays second fiddle to Rickey! Rickey's his own complete band!"



BTW, whatever started our recurring joke about RICKEY HENDERSON, from about 10 years ago? Still makes me laugh, but I can't remember why I'm laughing. I remember Scrooge mailed me something and the back flap had Rickey's career stats on it. Awesome.
<!---Hit Paydirt with K-Dirt--->
DWS Apparel Store- Buy. Consume. Obey.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Scrooge McSuck
I'll get you next time, toilet!
[ *  *  * ]
I'm having trouble remembering what I had for breakfast today. I think we know where this joke is going. Rickey seemed to sneak his way into any conversation, even non-baseball ones.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
torturedsoulv1
true maharajah Jinder Mahal
[ *  *  * ]
Erick Von Erich,Jan 19 2017
10:57 AM
Tim Wakefield got one vote. Most likely from somebody in Boston.

The minor story coming out of this was to the tune of "Bonds and Clemens increase their chance for next year". Yet next year sees Chipper Jones and Jim Thome arrive on the ballot... plus Johnny Damon to grab that obligatory Worthless Boston Vote. Thome and Jones are highly probable for next year.

Still not excited about Raines. He's the latest Goose Gossage or Jim Rice. Guys whose careers were "Pretty Good" and their baseball cards were 2-5 cents above "common", but made it into the HOF on their final years thanks to writer sympathy. Would've rather had Lee Smith over Tim Raines.

Rice was a HOFer for sure IMO
Was one of the best when I started watching in '76 and '77

Goose was great as well, he would have gotten in sooner if not for the stigma against relievers
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Erick Von Erich
Member Avatar
I'm Big E and I tell it like it is
[ *  *  * ]
I kinda' feel Rice's career was comparable to Dave Parker. Nobody really complained when Parker disappeared from the ballot.

Gossage I equate to Bruce Sutter, who I also feel isn't exactly HOF worthy. Both of them are comparable to Jeff Reardon. While Reardon was getting some HOF consideration for awhile, it's good that he didn't make the cut. Once again, I'd rather have Lee Smith. Or even John Franco.

The stigma against relievers was sorta' eradicated when Rollie Fingers went in (when was that--1990 or 1991). Guys really didn't start racking up the big save numbers until the 90's. Mostly due to the fact that it wasn't an official statistic until the 70's. Had it gained more prominence before the 70's, it's entirely possible that someone like Roy Face would've been a Hall of Famer.

I still think it's an important stat. 300 saves used to be the unofficial benchmark for HOF consideration, but it should probably be 400 or more, nowadays. Guys like Robb Nen, Rod Beck and Brad Lidge looked dominant for a few seasons. But guys like Trevor Hoffman and Mariano Rivera were dominant for almost their entire careers.
<!---Hit Paydirt with K-Dirt--->
DWS Apparel Store- Buy. Consume. Obey.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
torturedsoulv1
true maharajah Jinder Mahal
[ *  *  * ]
Erick Von Erich,Jan 20 2017
11:36 AM
I kinda' feel Rice's career was comparable to Dave Parker. Nobody really complained when Parker disappeared from the ballot.

Gossage I equate to Bruce Sutter, who I also feel isn't exactly HOF worthy. Both of them are comparable to Jeff Reardon. While Reardon was getting some HOF consideration for awhile, it's good that he didn't make the cut. Once again, I'd rather have Lee Smith. Or even John Franco.

The stigma against relievers was sorta' eradicated when Rollie Fingers went in (when was that--1990 or 1991). Guys really didn't start racking up the big save numbers until the 90's. Mostly due to the fact that it wasn't an official statistic until the 70's. Had it gained more prominence before the 70's, it's entirely possible that someone like Roy Face would've been a Hall of Famer.

I still think it's an important stat. 300 saves used to be the unofficial benchmark for HOF consideration, but it should probably be 400 or more, nowadays. Guys like Robb Nen, Rod Beck and Brad Lidge looked dominant for a few seasons. But guys like Trevor Hoffman and Mariano Rivera were dominant for almost their entire careers.

I felt Rice was better than Parker

Sutter and Lee Smith are HOf worthy

Franco was close
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
« Previous Topic · Sports · Next Topic »
Add Reply