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Help me with my 32 point build!
Topic Started: Dec 2 2007, 07:05 PM (2,642 Views)
Jerry
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So, I'm currently capped out on Mockduck my cleric on Sarlona and am thinking ahead to my 32 point build. I have like 1600 favor, so I'm getting there.

I recently pulled a +1 Silver Vorpal Bastard Sword, race restricted Halfling, along with a +3 (i think) Kukri of Greater Dragon Bane. I also have other twink equipment out there.

I'm mostly trying to decide whether to focus on a UMD build to take advantage of the vorpal or whether to just go with Halfling (not my favorite race to play) and make it easy. Or both?

I'm thinking about going with either Bard or Ranger. My understanding is that Bards are the only class with UMD as a class skill, but maybe I'm wrong on that?

I'd kind of prefer ranger, as it'd be cool to be UMD based and be able to cast wands and scrolls and deal with RR items. Is this a good idea?

I really don't know much about how UMD works other than the number needs to beat the UMD of the item planning to be used.

Is it hard to reach a UMD of 18? Would I be better with Bard? Maybe if I splash bard would that help? Just looking for some tips here.
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sigtrent
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Class and UMD: It is a class skill for Bards and Rogues. The base abbility is charisma so that makes bards (since they usualy emphasise charisma) the UMD uberdudes. Other classes will go for UMD but generaly they either have high charisma or have jiggered with their items and buffs. Many people multi-class to get UMD as a class skill.

UMD scores: You need a 20 to overcome alighnment restrictions. Race Restriction requirements depend on the level of the item. Usualy 14 is the lowest, and I think at the moment 22 is the highest for a level 14 RR item. Not totaly sure on that.

There are a few ways to raise UMD
Skill ranks, 17 for a 14th level character, 8 if it is cross class
Skill focus umd which is 3 points
Skill buffs like greater heroism (4 pts)
Charisma modifier (anywhere from -2 to +12)
Item skill buffs (These are rare and the highest in game is only +5. Items of comand are the most common and give +2)

Wands: Generaly these start at difficulty 20 and go up from there, but unlike equiping items you get to roll and add the roll to your score. So even with a UMD of 1 you can roll a 19 and use a cure light wounds wand. Scrolls are the same deal, but they are generaly harder to use (I forget the exact numbers). If you can get a UMD of 35+ you can use any scroll or wand in the game without fail.

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Ok, for a ranger to have decent UMD you will need to do one of the following...

1. Multiclass with bard or rogue, usualy just one level at 1st level

2. Have a pretty high starting charisma and take skill focus UMD and use lots of buffs (Ranger skill boost can help here.)

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Definately think about the ranger rogue.. its a fun build where you are a ranger but you have some extra skills avalable like UMD and Open Lock, and you get the 1d6 sneak attack.

Also keep in mind bastard sword doesn't work wtih weapon finesse, so your ranger will want a good strength 16 or better. 14-16 dex should be fine.
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Seneca Windforge
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DDO = Dwarves and Drow Online. :) Speaking purely from the standpoint of stats, one of those two will be the best race to play for most classes, except in certain specific situations...as the way things currently stand, anyway.

Anyway, I'm not sure I would plan a build around that bastard sword.

Unless you have a really low strength (according to a thread on the DDO forums a while ago), scimitars (or dwarven axes, or many other weapons) will do more damage over time than bastard swords, making bastard swords a particularly poor weapon choice because you have to spend a feat to use them well. Vorpal is nice and all, but often a nice high-DPS weapon is better than hoping for the natural 20 and a crit confirmation. It also sounds like you'd have to make several other sacrifices for it (in addition to the Exotic: Bastard Sword feat), primarily when trying to raise your UMD. Throwing valuable stat points at charisma (which will do very little for you as a ranger other than raise your UMD), maybe using a feat for Skill Focus (UMD), spending 2-for-1 ranger skill points to raise it as you gain levels, and even using a body slot for a UMD increasing item like the Golden Cartouche from Delera's all seems like a pretty high price to pay, even for a vorpal.

When you have an item that requires a certain amount of UMD, it will automatically unequip itself if your UMD falls below the required amount (unless something has changed that I don't know about), so buffs such as (Greater) Heroism are not the best ways to raise your UMD when trying to overcome item restrictions. Skill boosts in particular are almost worthless here, because they last only 20 seconds.

If you go with ranger, I would highly recommend going with a dwarven strength ranger (detailed info should be on the DDO ranger forums). Unless ranged combat gets a heck of a lot better, a dwarven strength ranger is pretty much the best ranger build around, IMO. Tons of hit points (with Toughness + Dwarven Toughness enhancements), great damage from the racial dwarven waraxe that you get for free (and can dual-wield with no feats), plus you get tons of great self-buffs (including the awesome Freedom of Movement at level 14). My friend has one and it works out beautifully. It doesn't really jive well with the UMD you might want, since dwarves have -2 charisma, but you do have plenty of strength, so a bastard sword will work better with it than on a dex-based ranger build if you want to use it...though getting your UMD high enough might be a problem.

A Bard-barian might work out well. You'll have several levels of bard, a good reason to increase your charisma besides UMD alone, and warchanter + barbarian stuff to make you good in combat. People on the forums say they work well, but no one I know has ever played one.
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AnneTrent
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personally i'd apply what sig said to a human. here's why:

- extra feat to go into getting exotic weapon proficiency bastard sword
- skill enhancements to boost UMD and other skills
- enhancements to boost Str >> Accuracy & Damage
- more points for skills
Thelanis: Anne | Theris | Annala | Anastazie | Torzion | Sofondof

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Jerry
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Interesting food for thought.

I'm not really very good at multi-classing, although I could probably splash a level of something and be okay.

I'd prefer a ranger to a bard and a bard to a rogue, just personal preference there.

Sounds like you're right Seneca - I'm probably better off trading that vorpal for something I could use - like a non RR vorpal! But i'll keep it for a while.

On Beefheart, my fighter, I've been using bastard swords since pretty much the start. They may not be the most uber, but since many people don't use them there's plenty of good stuff to be had cheaper than the "other" main weapons. It's worked out pretty well for me.

FYI - I'm pretty excited about the ranged changes coming to the game. From what I've read about it on the ddo forums, sounds like ranged will be getting a big boost in Mod 6, which is another reason I'd like to go with ranger.

However, all said and done it sounds like maybe Bard is the class for me on my 32 pointer. If I did go with bard, how beneficial would it be to max out UMD? Is it REALLY that good of a skill to have?

Although a Dwarven ranger might be the best for DDO, I just don't like the idea of playing a dwarf ranger. Maybe, though.

Ranger-rogue might be a good idea too. I like playing humans, so maybe that's a good choice for me?

Anyway, thanks for the tips! Anyone want a RR halfling silver vorpal bastard sword on Sarlona? Any interest in trading it for a non RR-vorpal?


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Blackskull
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hey

First of all I whould not sugest playing a drow sense they can not use the 32 pt. build and that is the whole point of this charicture. I have a halfing Bard 3/ Rogue 3 with the Dragon Mark of Healing and she is pretty affective. She can buff, hit fairly hard (last night she was killing trogs solo in Clearing the Air on hard) and heal all most as good as a cleric. If you want to do the ranged ranger I can give you the blue print for Hawkeyed Peirce my Elf Bow-fighter. He will end up Fighter 8/ Rouge 4/ Ranger 2. I sugest you use DDO charicter creator by rjcyberware.com to plan your charicture out. Alternatively you can give me a race and two or three classes and the genaral theme of the charicture and I can whip some thing up. Right now I am working on a Dwarf Barbarian/Fighter DPS build.
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sigtrent
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It really all depends on what your vision for the character is. You can make just about anything work somehow.

I think anne picked the right race for the kind of ranger I was talking about. Human brings a lot for 32 point builds. Dwarf is an amazingly good for pure combat prowess but they do have limitations and UMD builds are one of them.

UMD is the most powerful skill in the game, hands down. It is rediculously usefull and I think everyone should make themselves at least one UMD character to give all thier RR stuff to. My bard has some of the best gear of any of my characters and he was built to be a mule. I just end up with stuff that other characters can't use. He has a fighter level so he can use any armor, any weapon, any scroll, any wand, any anything pretty much. It's great fun.

Bastard sword is technicaly just as good as a dwarven axe. Dwarves do have the advantage of the racial axe enhancements so technicaly they have better damage with them. But in the hands of an average character the bastard sword is the same. Kopesh, Rapier and Scemitar are all technicaly superior. But it honestly isn't a huge difference. Power players like to quibble over the margins because that's where the "game" is.

Vorpals are not considered all that great by the DPS power gamers in the game. Generaly they can kill monsters faster with damage than waiting for a 20. However, that doesn't mean its not a good weapon. Some critters go down pretty easy with a vorpal and they are great for characters not totaly geared for nothing but damage. I think it's worth building a character that can use it effectively.

I'd do something like this....

Human

Stats like this...
Str 16 / Dex 14 / Con 14 / Wis 12 / Int 10 / Cha 12

Roge at level 1 to get UMD as a class skill
Ranger levels 2-12 (this gets you all the good bow and TWF feats)
Paladin at levels 13-14 (this gives you great saving throws via your charisma but it's totaly optional, you could stick with ranger or take some more rogue levels and still get good stuff)

Feats like this
1st: Skill Focus UMD, Power Attack
3rd: Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword
6th: Cleave
9th: Improved Critical Slashing
12th: Improved Critical Ranged

You wouldn't be using poweer attack until higher levels but it lets you take cleave at 6 which is a nice feat for vorpals and the like. Put your level up points into Strength as well as your first human adaptability point. Buy a little dex with ranger level enhancements to round out your AC. You have plenty of skill points so you can keep UMD maxed as well as a few other skills of your choice. I wouldn't recomend trying to keep up search/disable but Open lock should be doable and you could have the stealth skills or search if you like.

The only real weakness is a low will save and midling Hit Points. On the up side you can probably cast raise dead scrolls fairly well at high level and can equip just about any item in the game. If you go for the lat paladin levels it will fix your saving throw issue and give you a few extra "goodies"
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AnneTrent
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a minor note on cleave + weapon effects: cleave and greater cleave are really tasty with vorpals, paralyzers, banishers, etc because it applies to all targets in your attack arch. Its fun to vorpal or paralyze more then one monster at once!
Thelanis: Anne | Theris | Annala | Anastazie | Torzion | Sofondof

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Seneca Windforge
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I guess the way I see it (even having never found a vorpal myself) is that making those sacrifices to use a weapon that is good (but not earth-shattering) isn't worth it, to me. You could always find another vorpal (in theory anyway), but those points you put in charisma will never come back, and respeccing feats is expensive, even if you have the dragonshards. I'd take the dwarven strength ranger sans vorpal bastard sword over the human ranger with vorpal bastard sword any day, but again that's just my personal preference.

I can say that the biggest beef I have with my elven Rgr10/Ftr2 is that I don't have enough hit points to feel comfortable (160ish?). Rangers don't get toughness enhancements, so going dwarf for the dwarven toughness enhancements is a good way to get around that.

Drow bards are generally best (IMO), but perhaps not if you are going for a more battle-bard type of thing. You can't use the 32 point build with drow, but you still come out ahead because bards benefit from the +2 dexterity, intelligence, and charisma.

As far as the ranged combat stuff goes, I would definitely wait and see how they turn out before you actually commit to anything (which you may be doing anyway since you don't have all 1750 yet). I would like for ranged combat to be more competitive with melee, but...I guess we'll see. I do hope it gets better...Kyo'nne is an old-school ranger with Shot on the Run (hence the fighter levels for the bonus feats), and I would like to be able to do decent damage with a bow. Whatever you do, don't ever dump strength as a ranger, since it will negate your Bow Strength!

UMD is *very* awesome, but only for some. A fighter with an 8 or 10 charisma who throws points into his cross-class UMD skill is wasting them, because he'll probably never get it high enough to matter. On the other hand, any bard or rogue regardless of charisma should probably max out UMD. You need really high UMD to be able to use Raise Dead scrolls (35, 36?) or any 6th level scroll like Greater Heroism (44?). You do get to roll 1d20+UMD for scrolls, but it'll cost you an arm and a leg if you're failing 75% of the time.

I would actually recommend against taking the paladin levels, but that's just me. At Ranger14, you get 4th level ranger spells and Freedom of Movement, which is just freaking awesome. Your low Will save, at least as far as Holds are concerned, will no longer be an issue! I guess it boils down to what is more important to you; I would take the improved ranger buffs (longer duration, more of them, etc) over charisma bonus to saves (likely +3 or so for Sigtrent's build) and a +1 AC aura. Rangers already have good Fortitude and Reflex saves (and evasion at level 9!), and Freedom of Movement negates Hold spells, which makes having a good Will save a bit less necessary. Any higher level paladin will make your weak aura irrelevant, but your ranger buffs are at full strength compared to a wizard or cleric of the same level (well, maybe minus one level if you take rogue first), so they can always save those party members SP for use on more important things and ensure that you'll never be without certain useful buffs, even if you are short-manning something or even going solo.

-Seneca

PS.
Are you suuure you don't want to be a dwarven strength ranger? All of the power of the cosmos, right there in the palm of your hand... :rolleyes:
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sigtrent
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Actualy....

This kind of character would likely end up with a charisma score of 18-20 which is a +4 - +5 bonus to all saves. And an aura of +1 so the net is +6 to saves. You also get a bit more mana than pure ranger as well. You also get a lay on hands and smite evil and an extra AC point etc...

Not that I'm saying ranger levels arn't handy, but I'm all about squeezing every bonus I can get from a character once you decide what the goals are. Taking paladin is all about leveraging the charisma investment and the charisma investment is all about getting UMD access. I like to take a starting point and build from there ratehr than taking an end point off the shelf. Ultimately you can get both sooner or later, just a question of at what level do you want what abbilities.

The UMD numbers you site are the no-fail numbers. I tend to feel getting scrolls on 15+ is "good enough" unless you use them constantly. I tend to use UMD scrolls as "break in case of emergency" kinds of things. Generaly i shoot my UMD characters for either 20+ at level 10 or 30+ at level 14 depending on what I'm shooting for.

So the build I outlined at level 14 would be
17 ranks + 5 Stats + 3 feat + 2 heroism potion + 2 command item = 29
But if you have humanaction boost you can take it to 34 which will get you almost perfect raise dead
And of course you can get luck items and +5 umd skill items and greater heroism for another +2 etc.. so even with only 12 charisma so long as it is a class skill you can get it to quite reasonable levels.
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Seneca Windforge
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sigtrent
Dec 3 2007, 05:12 PM
Actualy....

This kind of character would likely end up with a charisma score of 18-20 which is a +4 - +5 bonus to all saves.  And an aura of +1 so the net is +6 to saves.  You also get a bit more mana than pure ranger as well.  You also get a lay on hands and smite evil and an extra AC point etc...

Not that I'm saying ranger levels arn't handy, but I'm all about squeezing every bonus I can get from a character once you decide what the goals are.  Taking paladin is all about leveraging the charisma investment and the charisma investment is all about getting UMD access.  I like to take a starting point and build from there ratehr than taking an end point off the shelf.  Ultimately you can get both sooner or later, just a question of at what level do you want what abbilities.

The UMD numbers you site are the no-fail numbers.  I tend to feel getting scrolls on 15+ is "good enough" unless you use them constantly.  I tend to use UMD scrolls as "break in case of emergency" kinds of things.  Generaly i shoot my UMD characters for either 20+ at level 10 or 30+ at level 14 depending on what I'm shooting for.

So the build I outlined at level 14 would be
17 ranks + 5 Stats + 3 feat + 2 heroism potion + 2 command item = 29
But if you have humanaction boost you can take it to 34 which will get you almost perfect raise dead
And of course you can get luck items and +5 umd skill items and greater heroism for another +2 etc.. so even with only 12 charisma so long as it is a class skill you can get it to quite reasonable levels.


But won't the lay on hands and smite evil be rather weak, with only two levels of paladin? I'm not 100% sure how it's calculated in DDO, but I would imagine that the healing from the lay on hands especially would be relatively moot, unless it adds non-paladin levels into the calculation. The +1 AC bonus is also going to be mostly irrelevant in Gianthold or the Necropolis, particularly for a ranger who is likely going to be going with two weapons or a bow/repeater. The bonus to saves is nice (and the primary benefit from the paladin levels), but I've never really found my ranger wanting for Fortitude and Reflex saves, and the lack of a decent Will save is helped by Freedom of Movement.

You can of course use scrolls without the no-fail UMD amount (hence why I noted 1d20+UMD), but for a casual player the costs can add up quickly if you essentially need to burn 2-3 scrolls to achieve the same effects as one. As for human action boost though, getting it to +5 is a pretty serious investment at 10 AP. Not worth it, IMO. Either way, I was primarily quoting those numbers to illustrate that low UMD isn't really worth taking at all (ie, for a character that might only see 10-15 UMD on his best day, after blowing lots of skill points AND buffing).

Ultimately, taking paladin levels is going to be a personal choice. Both have reasonable benefits. I would miss Freedom of Movement and the other ranger spells far too much to delay them by another two levels though, personally (Kyo'nne is already diluted by two levels, and it hurts). And if and when we ever hit epic levels, people who are multi-classed are going to have a painful wait until their main class hits 21+ before they can take any epic feats (yeah, that's far off...but it might happen one day).

Either way you go, you can get both benefits; my paladin and my friend's ranger make an excellent combo, since we benefit from each other's buffs. Someone else can cast the ranger buffs on you, and standing near a paladin (particularly one who is mostly pure) will give you a nice bonus to saves and armor class. It's more or less a choice between what you *you* want to be able to do and what do you want to rely on others for (at least while the level cap is 14-16), influenced by how much it bothers you to have certain class abilities delayed by a level cap increase or two.
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sigtrent
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I agree that both directions have some benefits. Whether 1pt of anything makes a reeal difference is kind of neither hear nor there. It really depends on what you are adding it to and how many of those small bonuses you have. I'd guess the paladin levels just arn't Jerry's cup of tea when all is said and done.

Human versatility is actualy quite a good bargin for 10ap (or 6 for HV 3 which is more what I would actualy take). It can be a really handy and fun abbility to have and honestly neither the ranger class nor humans have a lot of great enhancements to spend points on. You can do extra damage, buff skills, raise accuracy, get some ac for running dart traps, or saves for fighting beholders etc...

Epic feats don't generaly require class levels (its one of the foux paus of feat design), they were designed to work wtih multi-class characters. You only need be 20th level overall and meet the skill/stat/etc requirements. Of course I'm not too woried about seeing epic feats.. there's a whole buch more ddo to wade through before we get to that. (I've never played a D&D game to those levels, I feel that the game kind of starts to break down for PnP past 15 although in computer games it works fine)

Almost totaly vearing off.. I have a level 6 Palladin Ranger.. great character but different from what Jerry is considering. He's min/maxed kind of rapier&bow junkie. Really nice for solo play in the adventure areas though.
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Seneca Windforge
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sigtrent
Dec 3 2007, 10:16 PM
I agree that both directions have some benefits.  Whether 1pt of anything makes a reeal difference is kind of neither hear nor there.  It really depends on what you are adding it to and how many of those small bonuses you have.  I'd guess the paladin levels just arn't Jerry's cup of tea when all is said and done.

Human versatility is actualy quite a good bargin for 10ap (or 6 for HV 3 which is more what I would actualy take).  It can be a really handy and fun abbility to have and honestly neither the ranger class nor humans have a lot of great enhancements to spend points on.  You can do extra damage, buff skills, raise accuracy, get some ac for running dart traps, or saves for fighting beholders etc...

Epic feats don't generaly require class levels (its one of the foux paus of feat design), they were designed to work wtih multi-class characters.  You only need be 20th level overall and meet the skill/stat/etc requirements.  Of course I'm not too woried about seeing epic feats.. there's a whole buch more ddo to wade through before we get to that.  (I've never played a D&D game to those levels, I feel that the game kind of starts to break down for PnP past 15 although in computer games it works fine)

Almost totaly vearing off.. I have a level 6 Palladin Ranger.. great character but different from what Jerry is considering.  He's min/maxed kind of rapier&bow junkie.  Really nice for solo play in the adventure areas though.

Mystictheurge said that epic feats essentially require one class at level 20, and I took his word for it. However, looking at the SRD, I see nothing about any such requirements. Kind of unusual for him to be wrong. :huh: I've only ever played up to 20th level myself, and I don't really have any interest in going higher, since running a single combat at that level can take well over and hour, if not two.

I'm not really an action boost guy. I usually buy the first level of each, and then leave them there for good; I prefer more permanent (if smaller) bonuses. I have no shortage of stuff to spend AP on as a ranger, though I am also an elf so I get the rapier/longsword/bow enhancements, along with Enchantment Resistance, which suck up a few levels worth of AP. I'd probably have quite a few AP sunk into toughness enhancements, if rangers could get them (without being a dwarf, that is) -- I think it's kind of silly they don't have them since they're a melee class, but...enh.
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Jerry
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Thanks everyone for your continued help! To mention a few comments:

Blackskull: This is step one for me. Next step is playing with Ron's character generator. Don't build without it! :)

Seneca: You're right about not basing the build on the silver vorpal bastard sword. Last night I traded it off to Xiloscient, who is building a halfling fighter, in exchange for a vorpal great sword. It's still a martial weapon, but doesn't have the RR or exotic proficiency, so that'll be easier to deal with.

In regards to splashing Paladin at higher levels: I'll think about it. I've got time before it's an issue. I'm thinking I'd like to max out the ranger levels for Freedom of Movement and other stuff (I use it CONSTANTLY on my cleric), but splash rogue at level one for the UMD and other benefits.

I also think I agree about the human choice over dwarf. I'm just not a big fan of playing dwarves, despite their benefits in DDO. I've got a dwarven bard that I tried out and just couldn't get into. I think human's good for the extra feat and for skill points, etc.

So, my current thoughts are:

Human
Rogue1/Ranger X

Planned benefits:

two weapon fighting (I've got a +3 seeker kukri (seeker +4) of greater dragon bane just itching to be used off-hand)
ranged skills
UMD - call me the wand whipper! Or not. That sounds kinda kinky.
Cleave - I like this idea!

Typical ranger spells.

Rogue - I agree that open locks might be the best rogue skill to focus on, since I'll be working primarily on UMD. Of course there's also the extra point or two in jump, haggle and potentially move silently if possible.

I like human versatility, but I'm not sure whether to have that yet on this build.

OH, AND A NEWB MOMENT FROM JUNE 2006:

Here's Seneca's quote:

Quote:
 
UMD is *very* awesome, but only for some. A fighter with an 8 or 10 charisma who throws points into his cross-class UMD skill is wasting them, because he'll probably never get it high enough to matter.


I had never played with the 3.5 ruleset prior to playing DDO. Old 2nd and 1st ed. person. So, when I created Beefheart, my fighter, I was like "of course I need UMD! I mean, how else will I get to use all those cool magic swords and potions!" :) Of course I was also like "Repair - hey, better get that so I can repair my weapons."
I now work for Turbine!
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Seneca Windforge
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My friend, when he loaned me his copy of DDO prior to installing it himself back in March 2006:

"Hey, Eschew Materials would be good, because you have to buy material components in this game!"

I took his advice. Couldn't fix the mistake for loooong time. :(

Seneca's starting stats:

Str-12 (because you need to be able to carry a lot of stuff!)
Dex-14 (dex is for ranged touch attacks, of course!)
Con-12 (base 14, minus 2 for elf...don't regret this one)
Int-16 (fine in PnP with 32 point buy, I wish it were 18, though)
Wis-10 (I took a level of cleric later, so I don't regret this much)
Cha-10 (I have NO idea why I didn't leave it at 8...)

Oh, as for rogue skills...the two most important are Search and Disable Device. Search is either high enough or not; there's no roll as far as I know, so you need to jack it up (fortunately, it won't strain your ranger skill points much). Disable Device is much more important than Open Lock, because a critical failure will blow the box. With Open Lock, you can try over and over, so if you have to you can afford to let it lag behind a little. Spot is also a good idea if you haven't memorized where all the traps are.

With any luck, dwarves won't be Master Race forever. Mystictheurge compiled a list of all the suggestions for enhancement-based prestige classes, and some of them should help. I also suggested some elven heritage enhancements based on Aerenal (for wizards) and Valenar (for rangers or fighters) a while back. We need more stuff like that...

-Seneca
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Jerry
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All right, here's my proposed build - let me know what you think?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.75
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Zoot
Level 1 Lawful Good Human Male
(1 Rogue) REST WILL BE RANGER, maybe splash Paladin at higher levels
Hit Points: 28
Spell Points: 0

BAB: 0
Fortitude: 2
Reflex: 4
Will: 0

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 1)
Strength 16 16
Dexterity 14 14
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 10 10
Charisma 14 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 1)
Balance 6 6
Bluff 4 4
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy 6 6
Disable Device 4 4
Haggle 2 2
Heal 0 0
Hide 6 6
Intimidate 2 2
Jump 7 7
Listen 0 0
Move Silently 6 6
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 0
Search 0 0
Spot 2 2
Swim 3 3
Tumble 6 6
Use Magic Device 6 9

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I

I now work for Turbine!
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sigtrent
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Looks pretty good.

Keep in mind to cast ranger spells you will need to wear a wisdom bonus item. (to cast a spell you need 10+spell level in your prime caster stat) A lot of people make paladins and rangers that way, but I wanted to remind you in case you wern't aware of it.

Also, human Versitality boost has a skill boost and a damage boost so you may find you don't need rogue skill and damage boosts. Although if you really like those you get extra uses that way.

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Seneca Windforge
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My thoughts...

I'd probably drop Charisma by two points and increase Wisdom by two points.

Depending on how much you want to use UMD, you might also want to consider taking Charisma down to 10 and increasing Intelligence to 12 (this is after taking two points away from Charisma for Wisdom), since Intelligence affects your Disable Device and Search, and gives you skill points that you'll need with this build.

Just a heads up -- you'll be spending 2 ranger skill points for one rank of Disable Device, Open Lock, and UMD every level (though their maximums will still be level +3 like any other class skill), and your last point will be going to Search. I personally like having skill points to spend on Jump, Balance, and other stuff, but some can get by without them, so I like having a solid (14, usually) Intelligence; up to you, but I think the extra skill points are worth having more difficulty with UMD in the beginning, especially with a skill point starved build like this one.

I have personal experience here. I have a Rog2/BrdX, with a 14 Intelligence. I get 8 skill points every level, but I almost never have any to spare because raising my rogue skills costs more.

I just noticed that you have no ranks in Search. It's a required skill if you want to disable traps. I'd ditch the Bluff and Intimidate (since you have Diplomacy; you only usually need one of the three for conversation choices and Diplomacy will help you drop aggro for sneak attacks) for Search ranks. Also, Spot is handy unless you already know where all the traps are -- you'll need to keep it maxed out if you don't want to miss anything.

High Tumble is good for doing cool-looking flips, but not much else once you get a feather fall item.

-Seneca
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sigtrent
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Ah yes, I didn't look at the skills carefuly.

Open Lock is the easiest of the rogue skills to build into another class. If you actualy want to do traps you have to take search allong with disable and both are keyed off inteligence so they require a bit more investment than Open Lock which is dex based and has less difficult targets in the dungeons.

I sometimes take disable at first level anyhwo because you get so many skill points and I'll disarm for the first couple levels of play and then just stop using it once the four ranks don't cut it any more.
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Jerry
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Good advice both of you. I think I will drop charisma by two for wisdom.

I had thought that by splashing rogue I would not need to spend twice as much to boost up UMD at my ranger levels? If I have to spend the extra points anyway, what's the point of splashing rogue to begin with? Is it just to get the initial skill point boost into UMD or am I missing something?

Also, I really don't plan on doing trap finding and disarming as I don't like dealing with it. Mostly just put points there to give me the ability to. I think I will put a few into open locks instead.

I agree about dropping bluff and intimidate.

I had tumble on another earlier ranged weapon build and found it to be very helpful when soloing. I'd spin back, shoot, spin back, shoot and take them down without having to revert so much to melee. But good point - I guess I should drop it a bit.


I now work for Turbine!
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