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CustomOcalypse concept
Topic Started: Oct 26 2011, 08:41 AM (433 Views)
lourdes
militarist
How about CustomOcaplypse game with RandomOcalypse mod, when everyone is allowed to customize his nation using points? It will also help to optimize values, constantly increasing prices of the most popular choices and decreasing least popular for RandomOcalypse.
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jimbojones1971
*Spicy* Crew
Are you proposing a bidding system, whereby people bid for each of the various options and whoever bids the most points gets the option?

Or are you more thinking that by seeing what is popular and what is not, that you could better adjust the point costs for various things?
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lourdes
militarist
I don't know, can be different. There a lot of veterans here, so whatever works for most works for me. I think that a lot was done during randomocalypes discussion, so it's mostly a development of that idea. Plus I like the idea of highly customizable nations.
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Frozen Lama
The Frozen Lama of the North
I think the system Valerius is using is much better. bidding and point systems always end up way too complicated. This is evidenced by like every single ChrisP game, as well as preponderance 2.
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lourdes
militarist
I don't see the reason to compare it to Prep2.
There are 2 ways where we can go.


First - just give price to any unit and allow anyone to take anything. Unlike with Prep2 when 1 nation can be used only once, 1 unit can be bought by any amount of players.
This is the simpliest way.

Second- auction each unit. Also very simple. One says - I want Sauromantia archers, base price x. Another says I want Niefels sacred giants for startin Y, third says something else, so in one thread there will be a simultaneous auction for dosens of units and the same time, but it will not be complicated, as every player will focus on own plan, some set of units. Then people fight for them until their price rises - for Niefels till skies, for others - less. Someone doesn't take sacred units at all to buy better mages - cap only and regular. Someone doesn't take regular units at all (most of them are useless), but in no-indy game the price of this decision can be high. And pretender design will be optimized for small sacreds, large sacreds, or no sacreds. Auction ends when all players collected they decks. As there is a huge variety of units in the game, you will always have an option - not an optimal one, but something to fill specific gap.

I don't see why it should be hard to manage. We don't choose sets of unique nations. It's a number of very straight auctions.

P.S. this auction can be also a perfect source for CBM analytics.
I think the nations will be also much more interesting then in RandomOcalipsys - you just don't buy something you are not going to use and synergies used can be very unexpected. Races will be have much fairer balance.

Unfortunately I can't organize it myself, so we will need someone who could do it technically.
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Poldarn
*Spicy* Crew
The main problem with the concept is that you can optimize a lot by not buying filler troops that won't be recruited anyways. Same with commanders.

E.g. You don't really need much besides Jag warriors, Mictlan priests, and two carefully selected mages.
There are indies if you really need more chaff.
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jimbojones1971
*Spicy* Crew
Poldarn,Oct 26 2011
07:57 PM
The main problem with the concept is that you can optimize a lot by not buying filler troops that won't be recruited anyways. Same with commanders.

E.g. You don't really need much besides Jag warriors, Mictlan priests, and two carefully selected mages.
There are indies if you really need more chaff.

This is true. I think you would need to assume that most nations will want to buy one or two main types of troops, and only a few leaders also. I wouldn't bother with buying a national scout for example, as I very very rarely bother to build one - indies fit the same niche, and are considerably cheaper.
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lourdes
militarist
How the fact that currently there units which no one needs and no one hires could negatively affect the game where they don't exist in a production line? Ok, they will not be taken. But why would you need them if you don't hire them anyway?

Second - most of non-sacred troops will be priced very very low (unless it's some special non-sacreds like caelum, pangaea, long bowmen, etc), so you can buy them on remaining points after buying all sacreds you wanted. Third -yes, no one will buy scout. But why not to buy recruit everywhere spies or assassins? Or some national commanders with leadership 120?

To increase the value of not cap-only units the game can be created with no-inides settings. In this case you can rely only on your product line.


The argument you say will be solved by proper initial prices (most of army types should be dirt cheap in comparison to sacred units or mages) and market.
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jimbojones1971
*Spicy* Crew
My point was more that you should assume people typically won't buy the "filler" troops, unless of course they are actually free and you get a quota.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing at all (I don't think it will have a material affect on the game in actual play), and I am in broad agreement about your argument over the market (with some caveats).
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lourdes
militarist
Another idea could be to make game more usual - to allow saparate bidding on sacreds and mages, but everyone have also take 1 standard set of units (everything what the nation has excluding mages and sacreds - each nation has it's unique set, obviously) ,and each nation's set can be used by only one nation, also through bidding. It will simplify bidding.
So you bid on mages, you bid on sacreds, and you bid on basic units se.
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jimbojones1971
*Spicy* Crew
I like the idea of "sets", but would also apply it to special units/sacreds and to leaders What I would suggest is that you get agreement on what "sets" will be available, possibly grouped into the following categories:
- generic boilerplate (everyone gets these, no bidding)
- troops
- leaders
So everyone will have one set from each of the three categories. If you make sure that the number of sets available matches the number of players, you should get some interesting compromises and competition for the perceived "better" sets (and it should be difficult to nab both the best leaders and the best troops).
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