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All Eyes on Marverni; Executor vs GFSnl
Topic Started: Sep 13 2012, 07:02 AM (4,369 Views)
Executor
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I'm the captain now
I think wayward star is maybe situationally OP, depending heavily on the nation you're facing. Not nearly OP against Caelum who has good patrollers or Micltan who has cheap troops and doesn't need too much cap income, but absolutely devastating against heavy resource nations and gold mongers like Aby and Neif.

That said I'm against changing rules in the midst of the tournament personally. Even if it's nerfing something that might be potentially OP. Though it's something to consider for future games and tournaments.
In any case, immortals should definitely not be allowed to cast this. Like I said, giving 90+ unrest to someone on turn 3 is crippling in any situation. Even in large MP games.

Also, I agree with Fantomen here. Making a decision to nerf the spell based only on our game doesn't seem particularly fair either. My mistake was not realizing this was a spell. Instead I treated it like a random event which put me behind quite a lot. Had I known better I would have reacted differently. Our game is not a very good example of how powerful it is simply due to my oversight of the spell.

EDIT: In any case GFSnl is not abusing an immortal pretender, though he maybe should have been. ;)
Dom 5 mod nation:
Confluence - a compilation of 18 mod nations
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Fantomen
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Voice of *****
Torin,Sep 13 2012
11:48 AM
If people decide to nerf this altogether a change of nation should be awarded to GFSnl if he wants.

The tournament has STARTED, and despite the number of players being small it's an official tournament with a cash prize.

That means you can't just go ahead and change stuff in the middle of the tournament, as far as I'm concerned GFSnl has the right to veto any suggested change. IMO any change has to be based on it being truly broken and with the consent of GFSnl.

Imagine a street fighter tournament where someone discovered an "invincible" combo and won the tournament with it.

Now imagine the organiser saying midstream "Hey, cool combo! It seems unbalanced though so we're gonna go ahead and nerf it so you can't win with it, you are free to pick a different character"

That would be unthinkable! You enter the tournament with a specified set of rules and a specified version of the game, and based on that you make a strategy. Changing stuff along the way is breaking this deal with the player, basically invalidating the entire tournament!

There would be no question about the fairness of the victory regardless of how imbalanced the combo was, any eventual balance changes would take place AFTER the tournament.

And that's how we should handle this unless GFSnl agrees to some minor change like not using an immortal, but he's in his full right to refuse and play with his current pretender build if he wants to!

Edit: ninjad by Exec.
This sentence is a logical fallacy.
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Torin
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*Spicy* Crew
You just run a teste game with a lich as marverni pretender.
You get +100 unrest soon so NO RECRUIT FROM CAPITAL.

Winning because a broken spell its not very sportlike i think.
And i dont get to choose an oracle pretender, maybe you can of course.

Besides if we make next round in a map with 2 different possible capitol places ot nerfes the build 100 % and with the same tournament rules. How about that for unfair

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Druids of Carnutes AAR
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Boo
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Torin,Sep 13 2012
12:39 PM
Besides if we make next round in a map with 2 different possible capitol places ot nerfes the build 100 % and with the same tournament rules. How about that for unfair

You could cast the spell on either of these provinces, and keep casting on the province when the other guy's income shows as decreasing on the score graphs.
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Torin
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yes but you get some turns free of unrest and thats more than enough

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Druids of Carnutes AAR
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GFSnl
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I didn't use an immortal pretender.

I thought about it but in the end just wanted an SC for rapid expansion.
Marverni has 800gp forts and 200gp temples so I reckoned building one more mage recruitment place wouldn't be a big deal.
Might be better to go with a immortal though.

With the limited experience I've had so far I think it's enough to make the spell cause insanity and make it cost 4S.
Marverni's S income is 3 so you would have to alchemize two gems or just cast it only once every two turns for the first few turns.
Give my Mods a try:
MA: Myconos, Last of the Fungi
MA: Red Wood, Burning Forest
EA: Dystopia, Land of Luck
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GFSnl
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GFSnl,Sep 13 2012
12:59 PM
....and make it cost 4S.
Marverni's S income is 3 so you would have to alchemize two gems or just cast it only once every two turns for the first few turns.

Wait, scratch that as it wouldn't matter.

You can cast it the 2,3 and 4 turn anyway as you already got 3 S in the first turn.
Give my Mods a try:
MA: Myconos, Last of the Fungi
MA: Red Wood, Burning Forest
EA: Dystopia, Land of Luck
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Torin
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Whatever it happens GFSnl its already loosing because now everyone knows hes strategy and we cant say the same about the rest.

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Druids of Carnutes AAR
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Fantomen
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GFSnl,Sep 13 2012
12:59 PM
With the limited experience I've had so far I think it's enough to make the spell cause insanity and make it cost 4S.
Marverni's S income is 3 so you would have to alchemize two gems or just cast it only once every two turns for the first few turns.

That sounds very reasonable.

The code for that change would look like this:

#newspell
#copyspell "Baleful Star"
#name "Wayward Star"
#descr "The cursing of one's enemies with misfortune is a ritual long known to skilled stargazers willing to expend great magical power.
However, the druids of Marverni have learned that in some cases conviction can be a substitute for power. Only those of the greatest
conviction are willing to pay the price of their own life, but in doing so they can achieve magic far beyond their skills. If cast, the
ritual will bring malign events and unrest to the province of the caster's choosing, but the caster will be killed."
#fatiguecost 400
#nextspell "Kill Caster Plus Madness"

#path 0 4
#pathlevel 0 1
#researchlevel 0
#restricted 3
#school 1
#end

With the actual changes in red.

Would you agree to that change GFSnl?
This sentence is a logical fallacy.
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GFSnl
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Torin,Sep 13 2012
01:12 PM
Whatever it happens GFSnl its already loosing because now everyone knows hes strategy and we cant say the same about the rest.

Yeah....

But I did tell my strategy on the forum myself cause I wanted to talk about it.

When an opponent makes ones strategy know to others that isn't fair but that wasn't the case in this instance.
Give my Mods a try:
MA: Myconos, Last of the Fungi
MA: Red Wood, Burning Forest
EA: Dystopia, Land of Luck
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Fantomen
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Torin,Sep 13 2012
12:39 PM
Winning because a broken spell its not very sportlike i think.
And i dont get to choose an oracle pretender, maybe you can of course.

What's sportsmanlike is beside the point. Changing stuff midstream in a tournament is a big nono for obvious reasons. In this case GFSnl seems to be willing to, which is very sportsmanlike indeed, but he could also refuse.
This sentence is a logical fallacy.
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GFSnl
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Fantomen,Sep 13 2012
01:16 PM
Would you agree to that change GFSnl?

I don't think changing mods during the tournament is advisory.

But I do think the insane part might be necesarry for future tournaments.
I'm not sure about the casting cost as that is not really an issue as I explained in my post above.

I do want to make the promise not to abuse immortal pretenders for this tourney though. And as Executur has shown it's not 'OMG I win' spell as it is made out to be. (But still very powerful)
Give my Mods a try:
MA: Myconos, Last of the Fungi
MA: Red Wood, Burning Forest
EA: Dystopia, Land of Luck
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Fantomen
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GFSnl,Sep 13 2012
01:24 PM
I do want to make the promise not to abuse immortal pretenders for this tourney though. And as Executur has shown it's not 'OMG I win' spell as it is made out to be. (But still very powerful)

Good enough for me.
This sentence is a logical fallacy.
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Torin
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With no immortal pretender its slightly more than annoying. So hes already loosing the stoppage effect.

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Druids of Carnutes AAR
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Soyweiser
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Wait... did you guys nerf GFSnl because he played the metagame better than the rest? That is a bit insane.
[Maerlande] Because it was a smart idea. Soyweiser was right.
The irc channel: #Dominions on irc.gamesurge.net
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