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The Thread of Many Questions
Topic Started: Sep 2 2013, 05:52 AM (51,378 Views)
Tethrinaa
Chud
Hey everyone, I'm pretty new to the forum (registered and lurking for a couple weeks now), as well as to dominions 4. I have read the manual cover to cover with the exception of nation descriptions, tutorial, and some of the flavor text at the bottom of the pages, and I still have many questions about this game. There could easily be another 100 pages to this manual. If any of my questions can be answered with a thread link or manual page, I will not be offended by direction to such.

This community seems awesome (I see the same names on 4+ forums, steam threads, etc.) and very dedicated, and I can't wait to get into some multiplayer pbem games.

So, some background for my questions: I have played a few single player games (all EA, I have won default +1 difficulty with arcosephale in a game with all the EA countries, and as abyssia in a very small map), but I am now trying to win the dawn of dominions scenario as Marverni with all AI nations in the scenario present and set to mighty.

And the questions:

1. Why are my mages retarded? But more seriously, is there any way I can affect what they will cast once they are off script? Browsing the spell list for earth+astral spells, I came across farstrike. It seemed pretty solid if you set up for it, in that the base damage is very high and the strength of the mage is added, and the fatigue cost on the spell is very low. Marv's druids can craft multiple accessories, as well as boots, with +strength on them. It worked pretty well for me, with the mages punching Ulm's units from across the battlefield for 30+ damage, massively overkilling them. However, once they are off script, they throw retarded shards that rarely hit\deal damage after protection, or resort to casting 12 (resistable) damage mind burns... which seems to make my strategy a no-go since each mage killing 3 units and then stopping is incredibly unimpressive. As a side note, does anybody know if attack\defense values are used in that attack, or if it is only precision like a projectile?

2. Do dual wielding units, or units with gore from that horned helm, chi boots, etc accumulate fatigue equal to their encumbrance for each attack made, or for each turn that they attacked? I tried looking at numbers being accumulated by my boar chieftains, but had trouble figuring it out.

3. I'm 99% sure the answer to this is "he is screwed", but if one of my national heroes gets blinded (not corvix, he's already blind and I couldn't care less), is there any way besides wishing for an arcosephale priestess, to remove that affliction? It seems like disease, while also the most directly deadly, is the only easily removed affliciton... Which kind of makes sense, but still, playing as arcosephale in my first game spoilt me I think. (And in the same vein, it seems like most pretender chassis are off-limits for combat unless they have recuperation or immortal)

4. Is there a way to know which order my druids will choose to buff units when casting things like Strength of giants? I was very disappointed when they tempered the armor of my archers instead of my boar warriors when both seemed to be in range... I know I could set up so that one set is not in range, but that severely chains me to certain unit setups...

5. Is 10 dominion the maximum maximum dominion? I assumed temples would increase my maximum candles to 11, etc, but that doesn't seem to be the case? Also, the manual on dominion increasing contains the chances to increase\decrease dominion, but what are the chances\mechanics of dominion splashing to nearby provinces, and can it do so endlessly? i.e., can I sit in my capital and domkill everybody else if I have enough blood slaves and priests?

6. When players talk about "raiding", do they just mean taking undefended\lightly defended provinces to damage another players economy? Is pillaging typically involved, or is that a rarely used mechanic?

7. Is it only flying units that are capable of moving across multiple provinces + attacking (I know my arco wind riders could do this)? This seems to be the case from my limited testing, but I'm not sure why a 2 movement carnute army moving in forests would not be allowed to move through one of my provinces and into an enemy province as an attack. Maybe I had units with one movement I wasn't aware of or something...

EDIT:
8. Is there a formula for the way that protection values stack? Berserk (+4) should imply protection +4, but the actual value gained is lower than this. (Earth bless, natural protection because you are a dragon, etc. don't seem to stack linearly with armor protection, which make sense to an extent, but I am looking for a way to predict how these will stack when going for certain spells, crafting gear, etc.)
EDIT2: I actually stumbled upon a post where callahan linked a ton of mechanics and one of those was to iRFNA posting the dom3 code for this. Probably safe to assume it hasn't changed?


Thanks in advance!
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Baalz
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*Spicy* Crew
1) Learning magic retards higher brain functions. Learning how to leverage the magic system is one of the charms of the game. A couple tips:
a. you need to do most of what you need done in the first 5 turns of combat for obvious reasons. Generally mages are fairly front loaded in their damage (deal a lot of damage real fast).
b. You should learn what to expect from your mages when they’re off script. Make no mistake sometimes there will still be some teeth gnashing, but if you know ie. that they’re not going to cast far strike then you know you need to research up to something they will spam like blade wind if you’re expecting drawn out fights.
c. Understanding what the AI is trying to accomplish takes a lot of the frustration out. Very roughly the AI wants to cast a couple self-buffs, then cast the spells which seem to do the most hit points of damage. This means it’ll often blast the crap out of chaff rather than the elite units you’d want them to target – but the good news is that you can use this as a tactic to screen your own elite units from enemy mages.
d. Precision is what is used to determine where the spell lands. Attack/defense is only melee.
2) Encumbrance is one round of action, not per attack. If you have quickness you may be acting twice in a round, with encumbrance for each set of attacks (so 2X encumbrance if you attack with all your attacks twice)
3) There are a number of ways to remove afflictions, but by design it’s often difficult. The global gift of health, the artifact the chalice, some magic sites, a fairy queen, the spell Blood Feast. Arco did indeed spoil you, affliction removal is a big ability of theirs – mostly you’re stuck with them.
4) Legions of Steel is bugged in the current version, it only targets commanders. Most buff spells target wherever they can buff the most hitpoints worth of units. As a workaround for legions of steel you can stick the buffing mage (or other commanders) inside the block of troops you want to buff.
5) Abridged answer is that yes, for most purposes 10 is the maximum dominion, and yes dominion can theoretically spread (from most sources) an arbitrary distance. Priests preaching is an exception, you can read the mechanics in the manual.
6) Yes. Pillaging is not a common tactic, but is sometimes useful.
7) There are a couple exotic exceptions for national units who work like they’re flying, but mostly yes. Terrain types modify your movement for non-flying units inside your territory, but attacking an enemy province is only possible from an adjacent territory unless you’re flying. You can also only sneak one province, and move one province underwater regardless of your movement points.
8) Correct, the protection formula has not changed from Dom 3.
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Tethrinaa
Chud
TY very much! Somewhat frustrating about the mage part. So far strike is a "projectile" spell despite the fact that the description sounds like a melee attack with strength added? Odd. Seems like I can only hope to have farstrike be a useful spell against solo thug\pretender types of attacks (which the AI doesn't even seem to do), i.e. farstrike is a useless spell... Very nice to know about the legions of steel bit.

For the dom spread, I was aware that they couldn't splash dominion by preaching, and I know the chances of increasing your own dominion\reducing the opponents dominion based on max dominion and current dominion (as per the manual). To use an example to clarify my question(s), if my immobile pretender is in my capital, my maximum dominion is 5 (no temples), and the current dominion of the province my pretender is in is 4, the manual states that, for a temple check occuring in my capital (ignore all other increases for this turn), there is a 50% chance of increasing dominion (assume this roll succeeds),

There is then a 30-(4*3) = 18% chance that the dominion in this province will increase by one as per the manual. Is there then a 82% chance that a random adjacent province performs that same check (modified for current dominion in the newly check province), instead? And if so, can the check there fail and bounce back to my capital? Or only to other provinces that haven't performed the check yet?

If my current dominion is 5 in the capital instead, does it automatically shift to a random adjacent province? Or is there a 15% chance (30-(3*5)) that the check "increases" the current province and thus does nothing since my max dominion is already 5?

If it bounces to an enemy province, the equation is different, as per the manual, but if that check fails, does it bounce again? or does it stop? (I assume it stops... nothing else would make much sense...) and can my maximum dominion for purposes of this check be 11+ if I have enough temples? Or is this capped at 10 still?

The automatic pretender increase only forces a success on the initial (10% * max dominion) value, right? And not on the 30% - (3%*current dominion)?
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Ohlmann
Dom 5 Beta Team
10 is the max *number* of candle. But your dominion strength can go way above 10, which will be used for domspread into ennemy territory mainly.
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amuys
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So does MR penetrating boosters work on weapons like ethereal crossbow?
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my words. You think you can get away with saying shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your tongue. You didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
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Anaximander
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amuys,Jun 11 2014
08:47 PM
So does MR penetrating boosters work on weapons like ethereal crossbow?

I have wondered that and asked before but it doesn't seem like the answer is known.

I was wondering how best to test it. Off the top of my head, perhaps 4-5 scouts with penetration items and banefire crossbows versus a number of trolls set to guard commander. A spell focus and eye of void would give a +3. If it was standard 10 vs MR then you are looking 13 vs 14 and 10 vs 14 if you take the boosters off. That would give a 38% and 18% chance of causing decay respectively. Run two battles looking at frequency of decay on hit and compare. The more statistically minded might be able to suggest what numbers you would need to run before the p value becomes significant - but I wonder if 50 trolls a side would do it. Any suggestions?
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jBrereton
Dom 5 Beta Team
Tethrinaa,Jun 11 2014
02:01 PM
6. When players talk about "raiding", do they just mean taking undefended\lightly defended provinces to damage another players economy? Is pillaging typically involved, or is that a rarely used mechanic?

Good question.

I'm sure sometimes they mean dashing in and out of a province, and at other times they might mean the specific Raid order which Pillaging commanders can do.

I have no idea how Raid as an order actually works, but I do know it causes some strange interactions which have caused some people to call some uses of it an exploit.
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Maerlande
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Most people mean raiding as a strategy. You take a lightly defended province, buy a wee bit of province defence, and move on. The idea is your raider should be fairly inexpensive like a thug with some items or a small raiding army. And you should pay for it in gems and gold gained for holding the provinces for even a turn or two. You will lose raiders so it's a tricky strategy but can be very effective especially if you have stealthy raiders. It's also useful to keep your opponent off balance and even more important you can raid behind a big fight to try to cut off all retreats and get 100% destruction of his army if you win.

The raid order works quite differently and well, so far I find it of very limited value. The gold cost for the raiders doesn't pay off very well. But to be honest, it was somewhat buggy and I don't know if it got patched. So I haven't tested it in quite a while.
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Maerlande
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amuys,Jun 11 2014
02:47 PM
So does MR penetrating boosters work on weapons like ethereal crossbow?

I am quite sure it does not unless there was a significant change in Dominions 4. I think you got the same answer on Desura.
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Baalz
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Maerlande,Jun 12 2014
02:59 PM
Most people mean raiding as a strategy. You take a lightly defended province, buy a wee bit of province defence, and move on. The idea is your raider should be fairly inexpensive like a thug with some items or a small raiding army. And you should pay for it in gems and gold gained for holding the provinces for even a turn or two. You will lose raiders so it's a tricky strategy but can be very effective especially if you have stealthy raiders. It's also useful to keep your opponent off balance and even more important you can raid behind a big fight to try to cut off all retreats and get 100% destruction of his army if you win.

The raid order works quite differently and well, so far I find it of very limited value. The gold cost for the raiders doesn't pay off very well. But to be honest, it was somewhat buggy and I don't know if it got patched. So I haven't tested it in quite a while.

One thing to remember is that in Dom 4 you don't get gold income from a province unless you have a continuous line of provinces between it and a friendly fort. Similarly for gems, you have to connect to a lab to get the gem income. This is a very important consideration for raiding - both to get spoils from raiding, but also to maximize economic damage to your opponent.
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Maerlande
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Baalz,Jun 12 2014
09:16 AM
Maerlande,Jun 12 2014
02:59 PM
Most people mean raiding as a strategy.  You take a lightly defended province, buy a wee bit of province defence, and move on.  The idea is your raider should be fairly inexpensive like a thug with some items or a small raiding army.  And you should pay for it in gems and gold gained for holding the provinces for even a turn or two.  You will lose raiders so it's a tricky strategy but can be very effective especially if you have stealthy raiders.  It's also useful to keep your opponent off balance and even more important you can raid behind a big fight to try to cut off all retreats and get 100% destruction of his army if you win.

The raid order works quite differently and well, so far I find it of very limited value.  The gold cost for the raiders doesn't pay off very well.  But to be honest, it was somewhat buggy and I don't know if it got patched.  So I haven't tested it in quite a while.

One thing to remember is that in Dom 4 you don't get gold income from a province unless you have a continuous line of provinces between it and a friendly fort. Similarly for gems, you have to connect to a lab to get the gem income. This is a very important consideration for raiding - both to get spoils from raiding, but also to maximize economic damage to your opponent.

Good point and one I've been forgetting lately.
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Rejakor
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Spoiling enemy income is still a valid tactic.

Additionally, some nations gain income from coastal provinces even without a direct fort-line connecting them as long as they have a fort on the coast of a water province that connects via water provinces to that province (don't need to own the water provinces). These are typically nations with national sailing commanders (Berytos, Vanheim).

EDIT: Something to keep in mind is that the battle to take the province (assuming PD) and the battle for them to retake it (assuming you put at least 1 point of PD in) both generate Unrest. Being in foreign dominion, that province won't reduce that unrest on it's own until they take it back. 30 unrest lowers income considerably until it's reduced. Also it can take turns for them to have something in the area to take the province back with.

The only real counter to raiding, especially stealth-raid-stealth-raid tactics, is to teleport or cloud trapeze something (or somethings) onto the raiding army before it moves. Thus, it's generally a good idea to equip your raiders as counter-thugs or include a mage scripted to anti-mage tactics. It discourages them from using that option (if they have the paths for it) as they can lose an expensive thug or mages to your raiding group. It's cost/benefit, but for example as berytos, using a Mage-Pilot with Frozen Heart or Orb Lightning with your group can discourage the enemy sending thugs after you without cold resistance and lightning resistance. With a Storm Caller with Thunderstrike or Water In The Lungs Spell, they need basically SC level or specifically geared thugs to take out your raiding army. Which is great for a 200g mage and 10 14g infantry.
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jBrereton
Dom 5 Beta Team
Rejakor,Jun 12 2014
05:41 PM
Additionally, some nations gain income from coastal provinces even without a direct fort-line connecting them as long as they have a fort on the coast of a water province that connects via water provinces to that province (don't need to own the water provinces). These are typically nations with national sailing commanders (Berytos, Vanheim).

Is that a fact?
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Rejakor
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Well, i'm doin' it as both Berytos and Vanheim in MP games, so yes.
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Rejakor
*Spicy* Crew
The bit about a fort on the coast is conjecture, it might just be any coastal province that connects via water provinces to a province you control that connects to a fort. Haven't tested that.
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