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The Thread of Many Questions
Topic Started: Sep 2 2013, 05:52 AM (51,397 Views)
Ohlmann
Dom 5 Beta Team
On 72 province EA with standar 45 odds at sites, 126 site (1.75 average), which match dom3 expectation, in addition to the test you link.

You add a bad streak in my humble opinion, while I had a good streak with the first test.
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Executor
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Yes, quite possible it was a bad streak but that's still fewer sites then there should be imo. Those findings should be in line with LA I think, not EA. Keep in mind that nobody ever site searches every single path and especially not with a level 4 manual/remote search.

On a side note, those results also mean the remote site searching seems to be very costly on average. I'd say it's takes about 10 turns to pay back the investment of just casting searching rituals. And that in turn also means you're now even less likely to use remote searing meaning you'll get fewer sites.
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Ohlmann
Dom 5 Beta Team
IIRC, the average on dom3 EA was 1.8 site per province (0.45 per slot and 4 slot per province). So your streak is quite behind this theorical average. Even for LA by the way, were it should be 1.4, not 0.9 or something

I hoped to use the -ddd switch to do search site statistic more easily, but no luck so far.

B the way, happy birthday :P (according to the forum anyway)
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Elmokki
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Ohlmann,Sep 10 2013
12:50 PM
IIRC, the average on dom3 EA was 1.8 site per province (0.45 per slot and 4 slot per province).

No need for IIRC. 4*0.45 is obviously 1.8.
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Corinthian
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Ohlmann,Sep 10 2013
12:50 PM
IIRC, the average on dom3 EA was 1.8 site per province (0.45 per slot and 4 slot per province). So your streak is quite behind this theorical average. Even for LA by the way, were it should be 1.4, not 0.9 or something

I hoped to use the -ddd switch to do search site statistic more easily, but no luck so far.

B the way, happy birthday :P (according to the forum anyway)

Ehh, this is not quite the truth. You are right that the average for a province with no special features should be 0.45 per slot, but lots (the majority?) provinces tend have a forest/mountain(0.55) or a swamp/waste(0.65) in them which should bring up the average quite a bit. There are also farmlands(0.25) which brings it down a bit but those are quite rare overall.

I think the average for EA in dom 3 was 2.15 sites per province or so. Guessing. With Elmokkian distributions.
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Edi
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The site assignment algorithm has changed, but since we don't know what it was in Dom3 and we don't know the particulars of how it has changed, there is not much useful information.

Max 8 sites per province and decreasing chance of more sites after every one you find, which is how Illwinter has described it, means that for the same site frequency, there are less sites in Dom4 than in Dom3.

My experiences have also borne this out. On average gut feeling analysis, I find maybe two thirds of the sites I would in Dom3.
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Executor
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Corinthian,Sep 10 2013
02:33 PM
Ohlmann,Sep 10 2013
12:50 PM
IIRC, the average on dom3 EA was 1.8 site per province (0.45 per slot and 4 slot per province). So your streak is quite behind this theorical average. Even for LA by the way, were it should be 1.4, not 0.9 or something

I hoped to use the -ddd switch to do search site statistic more easily, but no luck so far.

B the way, happy birthday :P (according to the forum anyway)

Ehh, this is not quite the truth. You are right that the average for a province with no special features should be 0.45 per slot, but lots (the majority?) provinces tend have a forest/mountain(0.55) or a swamp/waste(0.65) in them which should bring up the average quite a bit. There are also farmlands(0.35) which brings it down a bit but those are quite rare overall.

I think the average for EA in dom 3 was 2.15 sites per province or so. Guessing. With Elmokkian distributions.

So maybe the bonuses from certain plains are gone? I don't recall having much better luck site searching in swamps then farmlands, not even death sites, and there should be a notable difference. Or quite possibly I have the crappiest luck when it comes to site searching which seems to be proven time and again in MP games. <_<

Thanks Ohlmann btw!
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Ohlmann
Dom 5 Beta Team
I will try more statistic analysis on this., because 2/3 seem quite high compared to my experience, which is basically no real change.

Note that "4 max site, with decreasing chance for each one" is a good description of how it work in dom3.
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Executor
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Edi,Sep 10 2013
02:44 PM
The site assignment algorithm has changed, but since we don't know what it was in Dom3 and we don't know the particulars of how it has changed, there is not much useful information.

Max 8 sites per province and decreasing chance of more sites after every one you find, which is how Illwinter has described it, means that for the same site frequency, there are less sites in Dom4 than in Dom3.

My experiences have also borne this out. On average gut feeling analysis, I find maybe two thirds of the sites I would in Dom3.

So I'm not crazy you ninja! Will there be any changes then to site distribution?
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Ohlmann
Dom 5 Beta Team
Executor, Edi have no idea what the change are or if there is significant change at all. It may just be that there is four 45% check for sites then four 0.45% check for sites. He have said clearly he have a one-sentence description of how it work, who let a lot of room for a lot of thing.

A thread on the forum show 94 site on 80 provinces in MA.
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Corinthian
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Executor,Sep 10 2013
01:48 PM
Corinthian,Sep 10 2013
02:33 PM
Ohlmann,Sep 10 2013
12:50 PM
IIRC, the average on dom3 EA was 1.8 site per province (0.45 per slot and 4 slot per province). So your streak is quite behind this theorical average. Even for LA by the way, were it should be 1.4, not 0.9 or something

I hoped to use the -ddd switch to do search site statistic more easily, but no luck so far.

B the way, happy birthday :P (according to the forum anyway)

Ehh, this is not quite the truth. You are right that the average for a province with no special features should be 0.45 per slot, but lots (the majority?) provinces tend have a forest/mountain(0.55) or a swamp/waste(0.65) in them which should bring up the average quite a bit. There are also farmlands(0.35) which brings it down a bit but those are quite rare overall.

I think the average for EA in dom 3 was 2.15 sites per province or so. Guessing. With Elmokkian distributions.

So maybe the bonuses from certain plains are gone? I don't recall having much better luck site searching in swamps then farmlands, not even death sites, and there should be a notable difference. Or quite possibly I have the crappiest luck when it comes to site searching which seems to be proven time and again in MP games. <_<

Thanks Ohlmann btw!

That might just be it. Probably a bug in that case as the increased chance of sites helped to counter the fact that some province types got more population.

But if you are cursed like me to never find magic sites in MP, just do it like me and invade whoever happens to be number one in the gem graphs!
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Maerlande
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Quote:
 
Keep in mind that nobody ever site searches every single path and especially not with a level 4 manual/remote search.[/CODE]


Speak for yourself! I search every path in most games. Although not at level 4.

Also, the average number of sites in Dom3 for EA is not quite 1.8/province. You didn't account for terrain bonus. It's small but significant. It's closer to 2/province.
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Edi
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Ohlmann,Sep 10 2013
01:54 PM
Executor, Edi have no idea what the change are or if there is significant change at all. It may just be that there is four 45% check for sites then four 0.45% check for sites. He have said clearly he have a one-sentence description of how it work, who let a lot of room for a lot of thing.

A thread on the forum show 94 site on 80 provinces in MA.

Kristoffer has said (either here or at Desura, or JK has said at Desura) that the site probability decreases after every single site discovered, so if you have 50% to find first site, the probability of finding the next one is less. If a second site is found, the probability to find a third is less than that. And so on.

So while in theory you could find provinces with 8 sites, in practice it is nearly impossible with the default frequencies and getting provinces with 5 sites is unlikely. But those 5 site provinces can and do happen.
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amuys
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Is Drain supposed to be free points now?
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my words. You think you can get away with saying shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your tongue. You didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
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Ohlmann
Dom 5 Beta Team
"free" is an exageration in my opinion. "Cheap" is pretty spot on.

It also depend on the nation. EA Machaka is certainly the one that really don't want drain scale. In general, nations without an expensive mage recruitable everywhere, or at least recruitable outside fort, really won't like drain. It's a minority.
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