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| MA Vanarus; National Analasys/Discussion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 8 2013, 10:49 PM (29,949 Views) | |
| lourdes | Nov 1 2013, 11:47 AM Post #16 |
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militarist
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For the price I definitely prefer Vanheim's skinshifters. Size 3 makes these bears worse in melee, and against random magic damage regen worth more them more HPs. And recuperation on them with their attrition rate is not that valuable. It bears were sacred that would be interesting (which has some sense, as Bear is a symbol of russia even now). It would open a bless window for Vanarus (which is now quite closed I think - while your sacred are not bad, still those mages you can produce with no castles, and do things like orblightning spam is good)- finding a bless which would be good for them and oath-bounds could be a funny thing. This would not them OP (as if you bless them you hit your research and mage spamming potential), but gives more options. Like B9 or N9 bless. Could be interesting. Another question if Bogarus could get them in some way as well. |
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| Elmokki | Nov 1 2013, 03:07 PM Post #17 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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Vanarus seems to be pretty much Rurik's Novgorod in the 9th century. Sacred bears would totally make sense. Seriously, chud/chude in historical annals refers to Finnic peoples in Estonia/Karelia area as far as I know (and it's pretty interesting the folklore version is considered to be extraordinarily beautiful and strong or whatever). Anyway, those people believed in the Finnish pagan gods and guess what animal was sacred in that faith? Hell, you could even argue that it's strange that a person able to shapeshift into a bear isn't sacred in this context. EDIT: Also,the pine of skulls magic site is just an obvious reference to Finnish paganism, so seriously, sacred bears! |
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| Sombre | Nov 1 2013, 06:09 PM Post #18 |
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Leader of the Community
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I like the idea of the bear but not the person being sacred. Nothing else like that in the game and it would be an interesting mechanic. Having priests casting blessing during the battle. |
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| TreantHugger | Nov 2 2013, 04:29 PM Post #19 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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I agree with Sombre about the sacred status of the skinshifters: just do the bear. To help stop arguments, I'd also like to remind peeps that we've been promised EA Rus, which will be mainly Chuds. But also that in Dominions lore, a unit's sacred status is determined by who in the nation considers it sacred. In Vanarus, it seems like it is the Vanir who are sacred, and the Chuds who are second-class citizens - it is very distictly a transitional step between the native Paganism and the coming Orthodox church (in this case, the ruling Vanir nobility are attempting to insert their own religion, but they will soon disappear). The skinshifters are merely a useful remnant of that paganism. |
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| hypocritelecteur | Nov 2 2013, 10:47 PM Post #20 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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Yeah that was a neat idea but I didn't think about how hard it would be to bless them with the current mechanics. Well huh. Does a pretender onebattlecast divine bless or is does it activate sacreds every turn? Can that effect be given to other units? Then you could have badass bears that are only practically blessed when led by badass pagan badasses. Or will a onebattlespell trigger after a shapeshift? So you could have the bears autobless when the man shape dies? |
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| Sombre | Nov 2 2013, 11:09 PM Post #21 |
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Leader of the Community
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Don't make this complicated. Just bring a H1 priest : ] No you can't have onebattlespells trigger on shapechange. Nor can units have them anyway. |
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| hypocritelecteur | Nov 3 2013, 01:37 AM Post #22 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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There's no way to ensure that a priest will bless them at the right time though? |
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| Sombre | Nov 3 2013, 03:38 AM Post #23 |
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Leader of the Community
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What else is he going to be doing? Casting banishment? |
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I mod for free and fun. But if you want to tip me for work I've done, you can do so through PayPal to rabbitoflegend@gmail.com General Mods: No PopType Recruitment (NI), No Mercs Mod Nations: Warhammer Empire, Warhammer Lizardmen, Warhammer Skaven, Warhammer Chaos Dwarfs, Warhammer Ogre Kingdoms Maps: Warhammer World Older mods not yet ported: AI Recruitment, Ulm Reborn, Black Ulm, Jomon Broken, Avernum, Tharoon, Arga Dis, Daikaiju, Epic Magic Fail, Dromeda | |
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| Harv | Nov 3 2013, 06:39 AM Post #24 |
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Maenad
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The only hitch I could see happening is the priests being too far away to cast blessing when the bears are in melee. So issue the priests a couple attack closest orders followed by cast spells? Any problem with that? |
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| Huitochka | Jan 29 2015, 02:38 PM Post #25 |
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Yourmomarian
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I'd like to add that there are two types of chuds in folklore according to the internet. Personally, i've never heard about calling balts or finns chuds, but i guess it's possible because this word has some kind of "weirdo" to it. Like, you know, germanics were called nemtsy (from nemoi - mute) because they couldn't speak slavic/russian, just like in rome barbarians were called barbarians because their language sounded like "bar bar" to romans. The other chuds, the one i know about, are basically something like elves, or fairies, or sidhe, or things like that. Secretive old race that lived there long before humans. Well, those are chuds we get in game, i guess. As for the finnish pagan gods, no, not really, we had pagan gods kinda similar to theirs but there were also some differences, and obviously they had other names. Perun and Veles were probably most important characters. But then again, supreme god who is also god of thunder can be pretty similar to Jupiter/Zeus if you want. |
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| Hellheart | Feb 6 2015, 07:42 PM Post #26 |
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Maenad
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Vanarus desperately needs a mage with Astral access, even as a random. A random would actually be even better if the mage had native Earth. I've thought on and off about a strategy, even a side-strategy, that would give a unique spin to playing MA Vanarus. The two things that I've thought of both require an Astral Pretender that is at worst Dormant, and I really don't think they're enough for me to roll with Vanarus. But if you're inclined to do it anyway, these can be fun wrinkles. You can summon Sirins super early, and if you give them a Cat Charm (and possibly Amulet of Giants, if you might tag a Size-3) and target mages they'll very rarely have an assassination attempt. You can use this to steal mages from opponents, and if you never get discovered then they may have no idea that you're the cause. You can also do this later in the game when a Blood nation could feasibly have Succubi, and let them take the blame for it. The above works best if you can nab an ExSx mage, because Vyeduns make phenomenal Communion Slaves for a very wide range of spells. It's really impractical to set up a full communion using Vyeduns (your Pretender would have to forge Matrices 24/7), but if you find an indy mage site with strong mages or just get the opportunity to steal a few, then 4 Slave Matrices and a couple of Crystal Matrices can make a huge difference. |
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| Vuguroth | Feb 21 2015, 11:45 AM Post #27 |
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Chud
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I think Elmokki's point makes a lot of sense. "Hell, you could even argue that it's strange that a person able to shapeshift into a bear isn't sacred in this context." The basis of a sacred troop is that it's something that the nation reveres. These skinshifters seem like exactly the kind of troop that would be looked to in this manner. I think it's kinda funny how a nation guide thread turned into arguing about the skinshifters though they're mediocre, forget about them. Chud hirdmen are monsters anyway... You don't really need much else than them and the Oathbound to stomp games. Plenty of interesting summons and tricks quite easily available too. Just go for overwhelm play and win. |
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| Johannes | Feb 23 2015, 03:50 PM Post #28 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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Slave Matrices for 5E5S aren't worth it at all. You could make a booster in the path you want for each of them instead. Or spellcasting items, etc. It'd be a huge gem expenditure for what is still a very basic communion. And wide paths isn't what you really want in a communion slave, since it doesn't lend your spells any more power. |
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they're mediocre, forget about them. Chud hirdmen are monsters anyway... You don't really need much else than them and the Oathbound to stomp games. 
1:03 AM Jul 11