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MA Mictlan advice
Topic Started: Dec 27 2013, 03:44 AM (8,261 Views)
Taritu
*Spicy* Crew
So, how to play EA and LA Mictlan is fairly obvious, and often written on. MA Mictlan, which is not a blood nation, does not do blood sacrifice and does not have a dying dominion is less obvious, at least to me. Also, Jaguars are cap only in MA, your recruit anywhere sacreds are Eagle Warriors, who while they can fly are very fragile.

1) You could break into blood if you wanted to, the summons are there. Is it worth the hassle?

2) Is a high bless strategy worth it? If so, which blesses? One of Blood 9 or Astral 9 seems workable: blood to make sure whoever kills your Eagle Warriors pays, Astral so they at least survive long enough to get to whoever they're attacking.

3) What about treating it as a more normal nation, and not going for the bless rush (people in a MP game will be expecting the rush, mess them up.)

4) Which pretender, and what scales/magic/dominion, etc, either for a bless strategy or a more normal strategy?

5) Thematically the Lawgiver is the obvious pretender, but he just gives you more magic you already have...

I like MA Mictlan thematically, the idea of Quetzacoatl turning Mictlan from their evil ways is appealing. How to make it work?

(Much of this may be obvious to vets, but I have played little Dominions.)
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Ohlmann
Dom 5 Beta Team
1 - yes, it's worth it. Not necessary however

2 - I prefer D9 to S9 on the eagle warrior personaly, the undying is largely as good as twist fate for staying alive, and the death weapon are vicious with the 2 attacks of the Eagle.

3 - Alway a good idea with Mictlan. For that, don't forget that you have cap-only jaguar, which mean fast expansion even with a small bless like F4W4B4

5 - you nail his problem of this pretender indeed indeed
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Maerlande
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Triple bless is evil with eagles. They are SOOO Cheap.

Otoh, you can also play MA with a pure scales build. It's a wide open nation.

Try some variations in SP for practice and see what you like. Try S9B9, W9S9B9 and maybe pure scales. I haven't played MA Mictlan in a long time but I got my ass handed to me by quad 9 bless eagles once. That was .... shocking.
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amuys
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From my experience of Dom4 multiblesses, you generally want one bless that lets you hit really hard and one bless that keeps you alive, and one other bless for whatever. B9 seems much more effective in the EA as there isn't a lot of heavy armor in it, but F9 and D9 seems better for damage in MA and LA.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my words. You think you can get away with saying shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your tongue. You didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
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Johannes
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amuys,Dec 27 2013
05:16 PM
From my experience of Dom4 multiblesses, you generally want one bless that lets you hit really hard and one bless that keeps you alive, and one other bless for whatever. B9 seems much more effective in the EA as there isn't a lot of heavy armor in it, but F9 and D9 seems better for damage in MA and LA.

Armor doesn't help against B9.
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Ohlmann
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Johannes,Dec 27 2013
07:22 PM
Armor doesn't help against B9.

He mean the strength aspect of the B9 I suppose.
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Maerlande
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Johannes,Dec 27 2013
01:22 PM
amuys,Dec 27 2013
05:16 PM
From my experience of Dom4 multiblesses, you generally want one bless that lets you hit really hard and one bless that keeps you alive, and one other bless for whatever. B9 seems much more effective in the EA as there isn't a lot of heavy armor in it, but F9 and D9 seems better for damage in MA and LA.

Armor doesn't help against B9.

Armour massively reduces the effectiveness of B9. The armour on the sacreds. You have to take damage to reflect it.
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Zargen
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This conversation made me try out MA Mictlan. Im doing pretty good so far with eagle warrior spamming with a F4E9B9 bless.
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Ohlmann
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Maerlande,Dec 27 2013
11:47 PM
Armour massively reduces the effectiveness of B9. The armour on the sacreds. You have to take damage to reflect it.

If you don't take damage because your protection is massive, then you can use your regular attack to kill them with impunity.

Blood 9 is exactly as efficient with 0 protection than with 40 protection, in both case the only way your opponent can avoid the MR check are to neutralize them without damaging them (or use the attack who aren't reflected).
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amuys
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Diviner of Football
I meant that the strength bonus for the Jags/Eagles don't matter as much in MA and LA due to obsidian club-sword being an inferior weapon as the ages go.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my words. You think you can get away with saying shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your tongue. You didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
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Maerlande
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Ohlmann,Dec 28 2013
03:22 AM
Maerlande,Dec 27 2013
11:47 PM
Armour massively reduces the effectiveness of B9.  The armour on the sacreds.  You have to take damage to reflect it.

If you don't take damage because your protection is massive, then you can use your regular attack to kill them with impunity.

Blood 9 is exactly as efficient with 0 protection than with 40 protection, in both case the only way your opponent can avoid the MR check are to neutralize them without damaging them (or use the attack who aren't reflected).

I disagree Ohlman. It's an expensive bless that you aren't using to kill shit. The efficiency is about how many pretender points you spend to make yourself a killing machine.

If your sacreds aren't being killed from damage because you have high protection, adding a B9 bless is a waste of pretender points. You could spend the same points increasing your killing power or increasing the number of sacreds you can use.

To effectively pay for the pretender points of a B9 bless, you have to let your sacreds get hurt and killed. That's why N9B9 is efficient. And, from extensive testing with Lanka because it has high and low protection sacreds, B9 on high protection is weak.
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Baalz
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I see what you're getting at Maer, but I disagree. B9 on high protection guys isn't weaker - all other things being equal.

Look at it this way - if you've got two units with a B9 blessing and 30 hitpoints, but one has high protection and the other low. Simplifying the randomness, somebody fighting those two units has to resist exactly the same 30 hitpoints of blood vengeance damage. Even if you had units that had no attack at all, and only damaged opponents through blood vengeance casting army of lead is not going to reduce their effectiveness. It only "reduces" their effectiveness in that it takes longer to kill them so something other than blood vengeance may kill the enemy first. I suppose there is a niche where you want to kill the enemy fast by throwing yourself on their swords as fast as possible, but that's not a very big niche.
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Ohlmann
Dom 5 Beta Team
I agree with Baalz.

The natural counter to low armor B9 blessed is cheap troop who are efficient against unarmored foes. Typically, archers.

High armor B9 sacred however won't die to thoses cheap troops. So you force your opponent to use somewhat elite troop who are able to kill thoses, and expensive troops usually don't like BV too much.

In other words, B9 is the counter to battlemages (mainly), and expensive elite troop (less so, but their low hp per gold is problematic here). Using B9 on high protection blessed, who usually require elite troops or battlemage to be dispatched, meaning you cover their vulnerabilities. A bit like A9 on shieldless, low prot sacred.
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Johannes
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B9 is a defensive bless and not an offensive one, basically. If you're not taking damage you're winning regardless.
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Maerlande
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I had a counter to your point Baalz. But it's based on only a feeling. So it's not really worth writing it.

I've been less than impressed with B9 on Lanka sacreds. It's quite ... meh. I put it to the high protection of the Kala-Mukha and Palakasha but I'm not sure that's it. Either way, I like it on Jaguars but not of big monkeys. Beyond that, it's open for debate. I still think it's a bless for naked or near naked cheap sacreds (Cheap as in effectiveness). I don't like it at all when there is serious gold and limited recruitment on the line.
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