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MA Mictlan advice
Topic Started: Dec 27 2013, 03:44 AM (8,262 Views)
Johannes
*Spicy* Crew
Armor only gives you more effective HP when you've got the usual N9B9.
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lourdes
militarist
1.l I think solo B9 in solo game (unless you play something marginal like Marignon) is really not effective bless, not worthy points unless it goes with N9. The only reason to take it is it's really cheap and gives you FoB, which is much more usable that other bless options if taken sleeping.

2. N9 is just the best bless in 80% is you are bless nation. Maybe not for all nations it's the most powerful for start, but as game progresses, it becomes more and more important. And B9 can be only considered as a second bless, competing with Ex first of all. And E9 will be better for most nations in most cases. For some nations E9 is good because they have hi-enc hi-prot units, others, who don't have high prot can have thugs, which need reinvig. B9 is neither good on nations with thugs nor with high prot. Not so many types of bless nations remains.
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amuys
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Diviner of Football
I kind of prefer E9 or A9 for bless nations since they often have priest mages.
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Ohlmann
Dom 5 Beta Team
One of the perk of N9 is that your priest mage are suddenly a lot harder to kill via rain of stone or earthquake.
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Baalz
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*Spicy* Crew
Well, I'm playing B9/N9 Lanka right now, and I think its easy to overlook one very big things B9 gets you - the stuff your opponent never fields against you because of blood vengeance. The blood vengeance may not directly kill too many people, but what it does is discourage what otherwise would likely be the most effective counters. Throwing cheap, medium strength units at Palakasha might as well be throwing them in a wood chipper, and it takes a hell of a lot more archers to bring them down than ie. jags. so you're not going to see as many little red numbers floating up due to BV. When you're looking at high damage or armor piercing/negating though you're also generally looking at expensive, hard to replace stuff - be that evocation mages or elite units that your opponent doesn't want to bring into high attrition situations if possible. I think blood vengeance has a pretty subtle benefit you have a hard time seeing, because those blade wind spammers stayed home rather than coming to the battlefield where you can see little red numbers floating up. Sure assuming you're winning you eventually get to a point where your opponent is going to throw everything they have at you, but that's a much different situation than the opening stage of a war being thunder strikes all over your troops.

As an aside, I did find a brief attempt by my opponent to mass up cheap priests for banishment spam against my demons very amusing with a B9/N9 bless - definitely directly saw the benefit there! I haven't seen it with mages because my opponents (very reasonably) avoid casting what otherwise would be pretty devastating spells.
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Taritu
*Spicy* Crew
So, to bring it back. What is the best bless for MA Mictlan and those flimsy eagle warriors?

N9 gives them the ability to take more than one hit against many enemies. B9 makes them hit harder (+4 strength) with their dual wielding and when they do die, take someone down with them. I mean, they still have Prot 7, defense 10, MR 10. They're not sturdy.
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Ohlmann
Dom 5 Beta Team
I like D9 on them. Twice the HP do wonder to make them live enough to kill something, and the dual wield with death weapon is quite devastating too.

B9B9 is what I would try at first. There is even a titan for that, and it open two new path for the nation.
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lourdes
militarist
N9B9 will be funny, and very potent in a newbie game. I don't think there is anything better for Micltan for newbies.
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Johannes
*Spicy* Crew
You can scratch the "for newbies" from that.
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necroant
Markata
When using any sort of B9 bless, how do you avoid losing mages at every turn? My guys blow themselvs up with BV as soon as they go off script.
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shonuf
Tartarian
I think objectively the main driver of blood vengance effectiveness is HP:cost ratio.

Which would make Asrapas the ultimate target, while Lanka's standard demons are pretty poor candidates. But yeah, there are many other factors like armor, and if your opponents have good astral (antimagic + soul slay/enslave bypass BV).

B9 is definitley a competitive choice on MA Mictlan though. But so is W9, S9, D9, N9 and F9. In the end I guess it's mostly about what you want to counterbuild.
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Rejakor
*Spicy* Crew
I recently won a game with MA Mict.

W9 eagles + prod (moon warriors). Moonies attack good (they are pretty okay heavy infantry for low rescost), w9 eagles die less in melee and hit hard enough to not need an offensive bless.

I could very easily see taking a big bless for eagles, they are a very underappreciated unit. On the other hand, scales ma mictlan just drips gold from everywhere and spams forts like no tomorrow. National paths aren't the best in the world but if you ignore couatls, high priests of the sky + abundant communion slaves is pretty okay.

Given how good eagles are as a unit, I almost feel like taking just money scales and spamming huge numbers of them blessless (with fog warriors and mass protection) would be worthwhile.

Either way it's not a lategame nation, if you're too cautious you will lose.
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Sai
Member Avatar
Trust me, I'm a doctor
Given that Tlahuelpuchis cost only 25 slaves, MA Mictlan has a pretty straightforward way to expand into blood once it gets started. It's a large research investment, but once you get them out, they can snowball reasonably quickly. Strong blood access more or less solves the late game weakness that you're talking about, and blood is a pretty good bless on your eagle warriors anyways given that they're already bringing multiple attacks.
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Rejakor
*Spicy* Crew
They don't have damage problems except against superheavy troops like ulmish blackplate or anakites, and you generally don't want them getting shot up, so blood is a weak bless for them.

My experience of Tlahuel bootstrapping is that it is slow and painful and doesn't come online unless you have a long, camping-style lategame situation (turn 70+). You could do that on a large-map game, but i'm dubious about it's relevancy in a regular game compared to simply focusing on actual national strengths like eagles, mict priests, and priests of the sky.
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DonCorazon
Member Avatar
*Spicy* Crew
I played them a while back with W9/D9 bless and 10 Dom demilich. They were a joy to play, slicing through pretty much anything in seconds. The D9 bless enhances their offense and beefs up their survivability, practically doubling their base HP. The W9 boosts Defense, also adding to survivability and synergizes well with the W bless since you get more chances for death attacks and more chance to survive the up close and personal. The W bless of course synergizes with your ambidextrous dual wielding eagle warriors who can now swoop in with 4 armor negating magical death attacks every other round. And at size 2 and flying, these guys can swarm the back line and eviscerate commanders and mage corps. In small groups they are highly effective. When in numbers, it’s terrifying.

You can get into blood through Tlaloques (Conj 6) or their hero, the King of Legends. D9 theoretically would give you tart access, but I played them like the zerg so late game stuff didn't matter.

Came close but can't say I won as the Nazca player had some good luck along with skilled play (got turn 2 or 3 steel ovens iirc) and outswarmed me before I could pull it off.
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