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| Blood Vortex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 20 2014, 12:23 PM (3,064 Views) | |
| Executor | Jan 20 2014, 12:23 PM Post #1 |
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I'm the captain now
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Does anyone know how exactly the spell works? The description isn't clear at all and on top of it the spell, thankfully, doesn't appear to work properly. So it says people from around the world die due to the Blood Vortex but after closely following province population I find that is not the case, or rather not completely. Every turn a message will appear telling that usually several thousand people have thrown themselves into the Blood Vortex, majority of which *should* have been from your land. This message is completely false. There is no population decrease in any friendly lands or lands with friendly dominion. However, about every other turn a similar message will appear notifying you that about several hundred people, on average, seemed to have disappeared into the night searching for some magical melody or some such. This loss of population actually does occur. Now, is the number or provinces or rather total population of any importance for this global or not? Also, does order/turmoil impact only (the presumable) population loss or also blood slaves gained from the global? Is there any formula so we might know what to expect? It would be nice if someone could elaborate a bit on this spell. One last thing, is the spell actually working as indented or will it be "fixed" at some point? Cause frankly losing an entire province worth of population a turn just seems completely bonkers and mad to me, even if it gave a 100 slaves. |
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Dom 5 mod nation: Confluence - a compilation of 18 mod nations | |
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| Ohlmann | Jan 20 2014, 12:28 PM Post #2 |
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Dom 5 Beta Team
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I have tested a long time ago blood vortex. Like you said, no poploss seemed to appear from the first message, and both Turmoil and total populaiton in the world seemed very important to get a high number of slave. |
| Worthy Heroes - UW Expanded | |
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| Taragarth | Jan 20 2014, 01:55 PM Post #3 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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I've only used it once, and it deed seem there was population loss both in the province where I casted it and the surrounding provinces. I interpreted the spell in such a way that it required casting on the frontline, so as to not damage your lands too much; as opposed to for example Well of Misery that just 'hangs in the air'. I'm close to being able to cast it again in an LA Marignon SP game of mine; I'll check it out in the next few days. |
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| Taragarth | Jan 20 2014, 05:42 PM Post #4 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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Okay, Blood Vortex is up! First turn: 5600 people threw themselves in the vortex, of these 950 came from far away. 66 slaves. Also: 1350 people from Summerlands (adjacent to where I casted the vortex) have thrown themselves in the vortex. Second turn: 4970 people, 760 foreign. 57 slaves. Also: 1340 people from Summerlands, 180 people from Nydian Range (By land, a continent away; by sea, three provinces) Third turn: 4600 people, 440 foreign, 52 slaves. Also: 160 from deadlands (by land, four provinces away) and 630 from Birman Heights (adjacent to casting site again) So far, the Vortex has paid for itself in three turns, also effectively doubling my slave total. It seems like Blood Vortex works like a form of global blood hunt, going everywhere at random dragging in slaves in big quantities. Like Well of Misery, the spell itself does not seem location-bound; rather it affects every province in the world. The province where I casted it has only grown because of my growth 1 scale. What does seem to happen is that provinces without order, e.g. recently conquered lands, lose about a 1000 pop whilst provinces with order a 100. Beyond that, I have yet to see a population loss that is significant; but I was planning on keeping it up anyway for some ridiculous endgame demon summoning. I'll report any other findings. Edit: Ah, the people that leave under the 'also' are chasing that melody.. Quite obtuse. |
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| Taragarth | Jan 20 2014, 05:48 PM Post #5 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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I teleported my pretender, the caster, away and that did not change anything. Theory: What if the people who 'chase the melody' every turn end up throwing themselves in the vortex over the course of a couple of turns? If a few thousand or couple of hundred people from every random province on the map leave that way each turn.. Well, you get a lot of slaves. |
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| Baalz | Feb 18 2014, 07:18 PM Post #6 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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Ug, those numbers make me nervous. Assuming you've got a big blood economy by the time you put up blood vortex I'd be pretty worried about 1000+ poploss events every turn. Seems like you're gonna start grinding down your available hunting provinces in not that long... |
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| LDiCesare | Feb 19 2014, 10:30 AM Post #7 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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I tested it once in SP. It's really a trap in my opinion, because it kills so much of your population over the mid-term that your blood hunters give less slaves. I lack figures to back this however. |
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| Johannes | Feb 19 2014, 03:50 PM Post #8 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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It doesnt hurt you any more than anyone else in the game. And it really doesnt hurt anyone much. |
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| Baalz | Feb 19 2014, 07:43 PM Post #9 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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I haven't tested it myself and am going just by the very small sample set just posted in this thread, but I don't think I agree that it doesn't hurt you that much to the degree those numbers are representative. Sure, in an absolute aggregate sense it's only killing a fraction of one percent of your population, but the fact that it's concentrated in (roughly) one province per turn would suggest it's going to start knocking provinces out of the sweet spot for blood hunting. Its going to disproportionately hurt nations with large blood economies, which is unfortunate as that's the only nations who can cast it. I suppose you could do something like put it up with a blood fountain pretender on a nation with no blood mages to shoehorn in (MA Mictlan maybe), though that's a lot of research to get up to it. |
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| Executor | Feb 19 2014, 08:07 PM Post #10 |
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I'm the captain now
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I have Blood Vortex up in a game of mine (ever since I started this thread) and it seem okay. On average I lose about 500-600 population a turn with Order 3. That doesn't seem much frankly. I'm not sure it even kills more pop then regular blood hunting now if you choose to patrol, given that the global equals to about 10 blood hunters. In either case the numbers seem the same. Also 5k provinces are far less important now then in Dom 3. One of the reason to hunt in 5k provinces was to restrain the unnecessary loss of gold which would occur in high pop provinces. Given that you get gold along with bloodhunting now, you can easily extend blood hunting to provinces with quite a lot more population without much impact so the loss of population should not impact you much. Lastly, this ritual is probably more useful for nation such as Vanheim, Sauromatia and such which have access to expensive B1 mages instead of Lanka, Mictlan and other who can easily spam cheap and/or powerful blood hunters, which is something else to consider. As Sauro this global brings in as much slaves as all my blood hunters which is really saying something. It certainly wouldn't be of same worth to someone else. |
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Dom 5 mod nation: Confluence - a compilation of 18 mod nations | |
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| GlointheDark | Apr 21 2016, 01:10 AM Post #11 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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Sorry to rez a thread, but it seems as if this has two possibilities Cast as an Order nation - to cause a penalty to chaos nations Cast as a Chaos / growth nation to cause a penalty to nations without growth |
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| Executor | Apr 21 2016, 10:07 AM Post #12 |
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I'm the captain now
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I think population in the province you cast if from has a significant impact on how many slaves you gather. Had Blood Vrotex cast in a province with less then 1k population in a MP game since it had a blood discount site and the average blood slave gain per turn was around 7 slaves a turn. Mind you I had an Order 3 dominion but Order 3 really shouldn't account for that much of a discrepancy. |
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Dom 5 mod nation: Confluence - a compilation of 18 mod nations | |
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| Ohlmann | Apr 21 2016, 11:44 AM Post #13 |
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Dom 5 Beta Team
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I guess we truly need to actually run repetable tests with Blood Vortex to take that into account. |
| Worthy Heroes - UW Expanded | |
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| Rejakor | Apr 22 2016, 08:13 AM Post #14 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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I think it's the order/turm scale, the province pop you cast it in, and some randomness, as i've for example never seen 66 slaves or even close to it, but i've never cast it in a cap province or not in order-3. |
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| Executor | Apr 22 2016, 09:21 AM Post #15 |
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I'm the captain now
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Yup, the population in the province you cast it from most definitely has a large impact. Just did a little test game; Cast BV in an Order 3 capital with 45k population and it gave me around 70 slaves a turn. Then I recast it in a 0 population province and it gave me around 5-15 a turn, so ideally you want a Turmoil/Growth dominion for BV. EDIT: Also worth nothing that the difference between Order 3 and Turmoil 3 is pretty much marginal. 45K population province with Turmoil 3 game me on average less then 10 blood slaves more then a Order 3 BV. 78ish vs 69ish per turn |
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Dom 5 mod nation: Confluence - a compilation of 18 mod nations | |
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