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| LA Pythium???; Da fuq do I do with these guys? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 2 2014, 07:53 AM (13,200 Views) | |
| Trumanator | Aug 2 2014, 07:53 AM Post #1 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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So I'm looking to start playing dominions again soonish, and I was hoping to give LA Pythium a try. I'm really looking to leverage the fact that they get some REALLY good troops outside their forts, utilizing a heavy scales and high dom build. There's just one problem: WHAT THE HELL DO I DO WITH THESE MAGES? Their magic is just so scatterbrained and weak in any given path except nature. I'm trying to figure out what the heck I should research first to get at least a little mileage out of them. Alt for my only decent path depth (N)? Thaum to try and get a little communion business going with my Thaumaturgs and Renatus? Ench to speed up my dudes and get a little skelly goodness going? Evo to leverage my rec-anywhere heliodromus and fire res troops? I can come up with a semi-decent reason to go practically anywhere, just looking for what the most viable sounding plan is in the context of heavy scales. |
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| Ohlmann | Aug 2 2014, 08:04 AM Post #2 |
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Dom 5 Beta Team
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There is no consensus on that indeed. I personaly tend to focus on Renatus (the D+random guy) because of cheapness and usefulness. Some other prefer the (heretic, bad researcher) heliodromus for the 50% F2. |
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| Humakty | Aug 8 2014, 11:58 PM Post #3 |
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Tartarian
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Recruit mages>???>???>Win the game. Aren't the out of fort troops a bit costly in rec ? |
| Thou shall not debate about the Legitimity of the Mighty Wrath of God !!! | |
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| Rejakor | Aug 9 2014, 04:57 AM Post #4 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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I personally go straight up Alt with a sidewinder into Thau at some point. Swarm + Frozen Heart will go surprising distance. Plus you Body-Eth some Hydrii and roll around with that for a bit. That said the last time I played them I ignored the mages utterly and played pure troops + w9 Hydra, and it kinda worked. I ended up picking up hydrabuffs in alt and ench for flaming javelins and that kinda worked better. It was beastly in midgame, I tell you what. |
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| parone | Aug 9 2014, 10:00 PM Post #5 |
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Foe of Paragraphs and Capitalization
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how would N bless work on those hydras? would it be ineffective because the heads have few individual HP? |
| All that matters is that two stood against many-that's what's important... | |
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| Ohlmann | Aug 9 2014, 10:43 PM Post #6 |
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Dom 5 Beta Team
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Hydra in dom4 don't have HP per head. They have an unique stack of 80HP. Which is pretty much ridiculously low for a 250g unit. |
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| Humakty | Aug 10 2014, 03:19 AM Post #7 |
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Tartarian
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Nature might not be that good for them, they only have 8 prot and 12 defense. Add to that they're size 6 and get swarmed. The W9 option above probably does better for survivability (16 def will at least prevent the first hit(s)) and it increases their already good killing power a fair bit. |
| Thou shall not debate about the Legitimity of the Mighty Wrath of God !!! | |
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| parone | Aug 11 2014, 12:20 AM Post #8 |
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Foe of Paragraphs and Capitalization
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what about n9w9??? of course your scales would suck. and all those cool troops you didn't need castles for would be hard to afford... you know, if they'd just give me an extra 350 build points, I could come up with something viable. |
| All that matters is that two stood against many-that's what's important... | |
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| Ohlmann | Aug 11 2014, 08:30 AM Post #9 |
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Dom 5 Beta Team
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N9 for hydra is mostly useless. W9E9 ? I still fear that the hydra are really not cost effective even with a big bless. |
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| nukularpower | Aug 17 2014, 09:25 PM Post #10 |
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Maenad
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Totally wrong. Played my last 2 games with N9E9 hydras, and they totally wipe everything. Typically you dont even lose a single Hydra wiping level 9 indy provinces - they destroy huge armies like nothing else. Start with an army of 3-ish Hydras and as many hydra hatchlings as you can afford during those turns - 3 turns worth is enough to get the ball rolling. Build as many cap mages as you can afford while getting another hydra every turn to add to the pile, and rush construction 2 and conj 4, then build ivy crowns and spam vine ogres to back up the hydras. Next goal is to rush conj 7 for mound fiends to reanimate all the bodies the poison train produces. Once that is achieved, you are basically invincible vs anything that isnt undead or ctis, and the swarms of cheap holy mages makes the undead easy to deal with. For extra fun, build thistle maces for the mages that don't get nature-3 naturally and have them spam poison clouds. As for research, spam theurgs until you get ones with air to start mass producing owl quills, then move on to skull mentors once you get the death mages (easy death economy with the cap mage finding sites.) I hardly ever used regular troops in either game, aside from some crossbowmen, and won both handily, so I would say that people saying that bless is useless with hydras have not actually tried it This is an extremely strong rush vs any nation without innate poison resist, as the poison resist spells are pretty much the only way to stop it, and they tend to be researched late. Just stay far away from C'tis
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| Maerlande | Aug 18 2014, 12:11 AM Post #11 |
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Dom 5 Beta Team
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3 posts. I don't think that qualifies you as an expert. And well, where do you play? Or are you talking single player? |
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FAQ Dom4mods FAQ My Dominions 4 Guides and Videos: Pretender Design and Analysis Maerlande's Videos My Nickname Source The Maerlande Chronicles | |
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| nukularpower | Aug 18 2014, 01:12 AM Post #12 |
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Maenad
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I usually just download mods from here, and dont post often. What does that have to do with the results? Funny to see a post like that from you, of all people... was under the impression you had some class. For the record, I play MP with a group of friends who have been playing Dominions since we used to cut school to play Dominions 1, so I have plenty of experience, never fear, and my accounts for the defunct, old dom forums have many, many more posts ![]() Obnoxious e-peening aside, you can go on wringing your hands over what a waste it is, despite not actually trying it.. in the meantime, I'll keep abusing it. As far as "cost efficient" goes, I'm not sure I can think of a more cost efficient expansion setup than a few turns worth of E9N9 hydras and hatchlings. |
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| Admiral_Aorta | Aug 18 2014, 02:50 AM Post #13 |
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Suddenly a troll appeared in the laboratory!
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it's relevant to ask who you play with because if you're playing under some weird metagame then your advice might not be very useful. imo your strategy doesn't sound very viable in a regular game, surely mages could be used in a lot of different ways to counter hydras + undead backed by mound fiends. |
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| Ohlmann | Aug 18 2014, 07:32 AM Post #14 |
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Dom 5 Beta Team
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I typically see E9N9 hydra dying 1/3 of the time and fleeing 1/3 of the time in expansion. I think you really exagerate or forget an important point somewhere on the line. And I have seen people attack me with hydra. I was prepared : PD 16 from an event. On 4 hydras, 2 died and 2 fled. |
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| Soyweiser | Aug 18 2014, 10:58 AM Post #15 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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Bit of a necro. But this guy (who has left probably), really has an attitude problem. If you make bold statements it is not strange to be asked to back them up. If you then start to use personal attacks (accusing of the lack of class, epeening (which maer didn't do, he only asked, hey, who are you, we don't know you. Please back up your statements)). And one more thing, saying, I have old accounts, and not referencing back to the names of the old accounts kinda makes you suspect. Dominions, has quite a long history of strange characters. A lot of them wrong in a many ways. (I know, I am one. A strange character, im never wrong of course). So, if you refer back to your old accounts, name them. If you don't well... it is just another unverifiable statement. Edit: fuck, not much of a necro, sorry. I misread the date. I was not wrong. I was time challenged! Ontopic Focussing only on expansion is not smart in MP. (You lack diversity for the late game, and paint a big target on yourself). And well e9n9 hydras have a huge problem if you run into something that just beats the hydras, which will happen in midgame. (something bigger with a e9n9 bless, that is Poison res for example). Or stellar cascades spam, or soul slay or something. If you always win using the e9n9 hydras you probably play with a low MP player count. (4 players is quite different from 16 players). N9 is iirc also a liability on your sacred mages. You do not want to get them randomly berserked (which an creative player can abuse, bloodletting turn 2, 3, and 4 for example). It still leaves the question asked by the OP. What to do with the strange magic diversity. I have no clue. In dom3 I also never could find any viable edge with the nation. (not tried that hard sadly). Perhaps you should try some sort of layered approach. First, research the D raising spells, and recruit a lot of D mages. (and some random others to sitesearch). Then go for the communion spells, and start getting more S mages. The first path you go for, depends on the enemies you face nearby. Might that work? Edit: damnit, the paths are pretty low, 1-2 in each one. So this might not work at all. Non cold res units could be targeted by some of the high W random mages. Stuff like liquify, if you can get the boosters. (or use a small communion). For expansion I would try to look for the minimum reliable expansion bless. While e9n9 can be fun, I wonder if you cannot do the same with just e4n4 and hydras. That way you can better scales, or your pretender sooner. Or you can get the gorgon pretender. Hydra's I think the best thing to do is go for the hatchlings, they are pretty cheap at 35 gold, and all spread a poison cloud. With some N combat magic (sleep cloud, panic, for example), and some random mage buffs, like ethereal, regeneration (if it stacks), gift of hare, rage of the cornered rat, quickness, etc. could boost the abilities of the hatchlings, without requiring the huge cost of the large hydra. you can get 7 small ones for each big hydra. And I think the hydras are not harmed by a swamp terrain, so you could use quagmire. Note Heavy theory crafting here btw. Have not tested any of this. Just looking at the mod browser, and using my dom3 exp. |
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[Maerlande] Because it was a smart idea. Soyweiser was right. The irc channel: #Dominions on irc.gamesurge.net | |
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This is an extremely strong rush vs any nation without innate poison resist, as the poison resist spells are pretty much the only way to stop it, and they tend to be researched late. Just stay far away from C'tis

1:01 AM Jul 11