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| Anyone have ideas about Marverni? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 1 2016, 01:37 PM (1,755 Views) | |
| Rejakor | Nov 2 2016, 10:57 AM Post #16 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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Body Ethereal gives a 50% miss chance vs non-magic weapons, making a square of infantry against similar infantry live 2-3 turns longer than it otherwise would have, significantly less against strong units (like the kind players build). It requires a mage in close proximity to an infantry blob, which can result in arrow casualties. Most damningly, it is at Alt 4. Evo 4 is most of the way to evo 5. It's best compared to Star Fires in the amount of damage it's likely to cause to the enemy army - a few extra sword attacks. Compared to Stellar Cascades, it's damage potential is awful. Given that most nations are going to have more elite troops than marverni, especially earlygame when you still have barechests and you don't have critical mass, it's even less effective. My guide literally suggests turtling until evo 5, which is what, mid year 2 if you have effective research? I'd ask that you read it if you're going to argue with me about this, although it's old and not entirely accurate with my current view of marverni. Your viewpoint is the 'standard' one of earth/nature buffs on marverni footsoldiers. It's not one that won many or any games. The assumption that you're scattering your RP around multiple trees early is something i'd also point out as a flaw - focused research is key to victory with ANY human nation. Specific, powerful spells that can enable you to stand up to sacreds and enemy magery are absolutely key to winning wars - a scattering of weaker spells might work against the AI or weaker players, but against a lot of people you won't even be able to put up a fight. |
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| frondeur de rhodes | Nov 2 2016, 01:51 PM Post #17 |
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Chud
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Body ethereal gives a 75% miss* No offence but your guide is a stellar cascades spam guide, not a Marverni guide imo. You only use one tool instead of all the tools in the toolbox. Are you really saying that a couple of druids or gutuaters who cast wooden warriors or marble warriors is weakening the overall strength of your army? Btw, if you choose to only recruit sequani stargizers and to go for evo 5, you absolutely have no weapon against a rush, you just flip a coin. Everyone will crush you all day every day. I prefer to recruit a couple of druids the first year and to go for alt 2 then for evo 5. Here I have a effective weapon against the rushes and as druids have a better research than sequani stargizers I'm not sure that in the end I fall behind. |
| rodriguezZzZZ | |
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| Rejakor | Nov 2 2016, 02:09 PM Post #18 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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Earth Meld is not a good weapon against an effective rush. Especially from 2-3 elder druids. Buffing with good buffs you get at Alt 7 isn't something that needs to be spelled out. Or even suggested. People suggest that for marverni and any other E or N nation every single time it comes up. It's common knowledge. However, an early cascades rush is not something people suggested for marverni, or much at all, until I wrote that guide. It's not quite as applicable as it used to be because the meta has changed slightly in a way that makes cascades less effective vs the kind of EA nation strategies generally presented, but it's still more applicable than attempting to buff marverni nobles into being a fighting force able to take on elves, chariots, or magic. Buffverni dies to a lot of things. So does Cascadesverni. It just dies to slightly less things and buys cheaper mages so it can attack on every single angle at once and overwhelm the 'things' killing it, whether they're tstrikes, elementals, elite sacred troops, evos, elite troops (steel maidens vs marverni nobles is a thing to see), so on. AI hordes suffer against buffverni - so do noobs game armies, sometimes. But i've never seen anyone succeed against actual magical or elite troops tactics with buffverni. Not even once. You pick up buffs and whatever after you have the thing that allows you to win battles. Because it stops letting you win battles after a while, and if you don't kill 1-2 people before that happens, you will inevitably lose, barring extreme incompetence on the part of the rest of the map. |
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| DeFlow | Nov 3 2016, 01:14 PM Post #19 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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Please keep the discussion going. I'm playing EA Marverni now in a multiplayer game. For self-preservation reasons I cannot contribute my experiences to this thread yet, but I will once the game is over. As for now... Everything you guys say will help me out. =P |
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| KoboldLord | Nov 3 2016, 01:38 PM Post #20 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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One important thing to keep in mind is that even when you hit Stellar Cascades (or whatever you settle on going for), you shouldn't just roll out your entire mage corps and sit them on your enemy's fort for a protracted siege. Marverni needs to maintain a research edge at all times to have any real hope of success in anything remotely resembling a fair fight. Mages sent into battle are not able to help maintain your research lead. Crush your enemy's army, but then clean up as much as possible with your mages back in a lab, building a new one near the front if necessary. If you manage to convince another nation to double-team one of your neighbors, it's often better to graciously allow them to keep the capital when you divvy up portions, so they can deal with the costly extended siege to actually take it. If you maintain your research lead, your choice between Evocverni or Buffverni is only relevant until the first part of year 2, because by the end of year 2 you will be both. You will want to revise your battle plan every time you face a new opponent or army composition, because you can't possibly have enough mages to cast everything right away and some spells are going to be much more important than others. Scout provinces are rare in EA, but you definitely want to get some scouts on your neighbors by any means necessary so you can see what they're doing so you can cast the right spells in turn 1 of battle. Elf nations can often get away with slapping down a basic bless script and having their sacreds run forward, you cannot. |
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| Rejakor | Nov 3 2016, 04:38 PM Post #21 |
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*Spicy* Crew
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I'd really hope that 'don't deploy forces you don't need to deploy' and 'try to know what your enemies are doing' don't actually need to be spelled out. As usual, a mage should be generating RP when you have nothing better than generating RP for him to be doing, that's true of any dominions situation. However, what I noticed from the vast majority of human nations that were being crushed in MP was a lack of a) focused research b) getting mages out of labs. The Stellar Cascades build solves this in 2 ways - by spamming mages, it seems less costly to remove enough mages to win wars from labs - Cascades is a focused research target that works against the majority of enemies you will face in EA if you get it early enough. It's always nice to have the perfect counter to your enemy and beat them all pretty and nicely and so forth, but lacking that this build works because you can seriously shovel a thousand marverni and fifty mages into losing battles and still win the war. Cascades + Nobles is difficult to counter initially, and even RoS-spam can falter from sheer numbers of advancing army groups across a wide front. In the game I won with marverni right before I wrote the guide, I lost horrendous amounts of troops and mages to both Abysia and Pangaea, before rolling over them regardless because I had more troops and mages left, and they didn't. Industrial-scale production of cheap troops and cheap mages that punch above their weight is a tactic that allows you to overcome issues of familiarity or intelligence and hit the enemy hard regardless. As you put it, it's an 'elf' tactic, but for a human nation. I still see a lot of human nations sitting there with a few provinces above their expansion from assisted wars, researching away, while on the other side of the map Ragha or someone is eating their fourth nation and preparing for the winning throne rush. Dominions isn't just a war game, it's also a race for the pennant. Anything that relies on carefully husbanding resources and preparing the right counter for the whatever is something that is unlikely to lead to you advancing at the maximum possible pace and gaining enough power to contest the victory, unless you have the diplomatic advantage and can manipulate your enemies to create as much time as you need. |
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| frondeur de rhodes | Nov 15 2016, 03:38 PM Post #22 |
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Chud
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From your experience, not from mine. Of course some rushes don't care about earth meld, but it's certainly an asset in hand. But you still didn't tell me what is your response to an early rush.
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Then you should be more precise when you wrote the first quote. No need to say the meaning of the two quotes is completely different. Btw, wooden warriors is alt 5.
Ok. Maybe some needed to read the guide to get the point. But between us, cheap S1 mage + light of the northern star + stellar cascades, it's the same thing that 1+1+1=3. |
| rodriguezZzZZ | |
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1:01 AM Jul 11