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LA Man Mammoth Counters?
Topic Started: Jan 24 2017, 09:12 AM (860 Views)
crowmeme
Member Avatar
Chud
So I've been messing around in singleplayer trying to refine my LA Man playstyle and so far everything's been going fairly well, but in my current game I'm bellied up against a LA Caelum AI with absolutely nothing better to do than mess with me. They're not a huge threat, generally speaking, but for the mammoths.

I've been using massed Defenders for a mixed ranged/melee approach (side note: a Tiwaz of War with a Helmet of Heroes leading heavy troops in an already high-morale faction is a hell of a thing), and they handle pretty much anything Caelum has left to throw at me - but although large numbers of crossbows are handling mammoths and winning, they're not doing it fast enough to stop me from taking disproportionate losses. To be frank, it's giving the whole campaign something of a Pyrrhic feel.

Is there anything LA Man has to stop this? If possible, without devoting too many mages, since they're somewhat more efficiently employed on the other side of my territory fighting Marignon?
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Itwastuesday
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*Spicy* Crew
With magic : False Fetters, Earth Meld, Air/Earth/Fire elementals (the conj-5 ones), Paralyze, Frighten, Panic, Wildness
Without : you probably have to accept a few lossess if you can't bow them to death before they attack. You can probably mass a lot of longbows that could possibly make the Mammoths break before they attack as they don't have a great morale.
You could have a bunch of axemen charge them, they'll take losses but they'll mince the Mammoths with their 19 damage slashing attacks.
Eagles may soar high, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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Rejakor
*Spicy* Crew
LA Man doesn't get longbows, just crossbows.

What you're saying (god leading around a big pile of crossbows) tells me you haven't really looked at the magic side of the game much yet.

Typically with LA Man you're looking at 1 castle per 3 provinces, all pumping out Magisters. Those magisters communion and stormpower/epower into a wide variety of buffs, elementals, tstrikes, blasts, defenses, ironbanes, etc. You use defenders as blockers more than anything else. A line of defenders fires xbows, but more importantly doesn't run forward, and is armoured. With wind guide they do a touch of killing, but mostly they wait while magisters rain gifts from heaven, tstrike, marble warriors, fog warriors + rain of stones, etc.

Crystal Master Matrixes bring Death or Fire Judges (built for those randoms) into communions to cast things like Firestorm, soul vortex (with regenerating bodyguards, refills communion slave fatigue and hp), rigor mortis (with reinvig), etc.

You have cheap, industrially produced gifts and buffs casters, and cheap, super-effective blockers. Basically the LA equivalent of MA T'ien Ch'i.
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sunbeam
*Spicy* Crew
Rejakor,Jan 24 2017
12:26 PM
Crystal Master Matrixes bring Death or Fire Judges (built for those randoms) into communions to cast things like Firestorm, soul vortex (with regenerating bodyguards, refills communion slave fatigue and hp), rigor mortis (with reinvig), etc.


How does that work? The reinvigoration I mean. Soul Vortex does that, but wouldn't you have all the mages behind the front lines? What exactly is anyone in the communion going to drain?

Drain Life has range 25 I guess you could do that.

But since Judges only have a 25% chance of getting either Death or Fire (and 1/16 of having both), I've found it is better to just forget about recruiting them at all, unless you need a patroller. Assuming that there is an indie province with a death or fire capable mage. After all any mage with a fire/death path will do just as well with a Matrix. And you will waste more money and have to pay upkeep on totally useless units that have no magic paths or can research (yet pay for being "drain immune" anyhow).

As for the rest of what you wrote, about the communions... well Man has reliable paths on it's mages (some would say boringly so). But Bogarus for one example can easily duplicate any trick with communions Man can bring to the table, and a whole lot more. Plus their base mages are much cheaper and have nowhere near the issue of being "old."

I swear Magister Arcanes are not only overpriced, I'd estimate that with the rate they get afflictions and eventually die or lose effectiveness, they are really about 15 gold or so more expensive than the list price.

But Bogarus can easily duplicate any trick Man can do. Really crappy troops though it looks like. Not much blockage there. Not that much worse than the Tower Guards whose big thing is the crossbow and staying put as you said.
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amuys
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Diviner of Football
Just cast paralyze or false fetters and laugh
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my words. You think you can get away with saying shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your tongue. You didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
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crowmeme
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Chud
amuys
 
Just cast paralyze or false fetters and laugh

This seems like the most helpful idea for most impact with least mage investment! I'll try this out today.

Rejakor
 
mostly they wait while magisters rain gifts from heaven, tstrike, marble warriors, fog warriors + rain of stones, etc.

The problem with this is that much of it takes more research and mage-turns than I'd prefer to spare - this is still pretty early-game. I appreciate the matrix Judge idea, though, since I'd yet to think of it!
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Morsigil
*Spicy* Crew
Your fire judges can also add bonds of fire to the mix, or prison of fire if they're boosted by communion. It's a morale check to get out of the bonds, which mammoths are only mediocre at, and they take damage to boot.

EDIT: Nevermind. This is a stupid idea. I thought the Tiwaz was size 6. He is size 5 and completely unsuitable for the task. ---- Original: Also, if you can get that Tiwaz geared he can single handedly take on any number of mammoths. I had a Celestial General with the standard thug gear (vine shield, brand, rainbow armor, ring of regen, etc) who of course couldn't be trampled and killed hordes of mammoths, as well as Caelians, in an MA MP game. Make sure he has boots of flight. A good player will swamp you in skeletons too, but the AI isn't going to.
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jBrereton
Dom 5 Beta Team
Rejakor,Jan 24 2017
12:26 PM
LA Man doesn't get longbows, just crossbows.

Yes it does lol they're just (slightly) armoured. Still well worth using against elephants set to Fire Large Monsters, preferably with Flaming Arrows.

As a stopgap I personally recommend Frighten on as many Judges as possible, OP. If you have any N2 Daughters of Avalon from events, Panic is worth a shot too.

Please do not use a Tiwaz of War to fight elephants unless you have Enlarge ready to go; he is too small for it otherwise, will get horribly fatigued and then trampled.
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Morsigil
*Spicy* Crew
jBrereton,Jan 24 2017
11:19 PM
Please do not use a Tiwaz of War to fight elephants unless you have Enlarge ready to go; he is too small for it otherwise, will get horribly fatigued and then trampled.

My apologies! I had no idea the Tiwaz was size 5. Yeah, don't use him. He'll get murdered.
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