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How to counter blessings?; Counters for Blood Vengeance
Topic Started: Feb 7 2017, 12:37 AM (1,646 Views)
Aird14
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Witch Hunter
joansam,Feb 9 2017
02:50 PM
Ok, assuming the Ermor player is pretty good, they're gonna have a nice Lictor economy going. N9B9 Lictors are terrifying, but I'd go with Flaming Arrows and as much communioned Living Fire spam as you can muster. Living Fire is especially good against Knights of the Chalice because their hoof and broadsword attacks often result in the fire elementals damaging them, but they're good against Lictors too. Hopefully you have some spare fire gems. You could also try Fire Fend + Fire Storm to thin out their chaffe and possibly mages.
I wouldn't rely on Holy Pyre w/Antimagic if they have a lot of Lictors, cause you will start losing mages at a decent rate, and Lictors have plenty of health anyway. Might be more worthwhile against Knights though.
Strategically, try to get the most people possible involved and go destroy their unholy capital before it's the death of you all.

Good point, I will use a couple of arch angels to try and hit more providences appart from my main army, good news the game is almost over 2 throne points to win, the bad news are I have to go through Man remaining lands and Ermors armies or beat Eriu with a smaller army
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Johannes
*Spicy* Crew
alguLoD,Feb 7 2017
06:18 PM
B9 checks against Magic Resistance. Marignon has fairly easy access to the Antimagic spell.

Get antimagic up and then spam Holy Pyre. If you're really concerned, forge a few Amulets of Antimagic and put them on your Witch Hunters. Preferably place your army as far back on the deployment zone as possible and if you have access to it cast Wind Guide.

You'll still lose some of them, but Blood Vengeance will only trigger about 8% of the time (under 4% if you also use those amulets; bonus points if you have an astral bless) and they're easier to replace for you than Ermor's sacreds are for him.

Ermor has made a terrible mistake. B9 is for expendable, easily massed sacreds. Not ones that occasionally freespawn around their empire or cost considerable amounts of time and death gems to summon.

"Only 8%". Holy Pyre is AoE3. You can fit 9 Lictors into those 3 squares - so if you hit them full on you can expect a mage to survive 1-2 rounds of casting. It's nowhere near worth it.

Fire Elementals are a much better idea for your casters. Also if you get some N indies, they can cast Protection on those Elementals which will make their life expectancy notably longer.

Paralyze / Soul Slay / Enslave is also useful to an extent if you've got penetration boosters, but as Marignon more likely as a side dish to everything else than as the main thing.


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I believe bonds of fire should be ok, but not 100% sure. No idea wrt Trampling. One other things that I know is fine is cloud spells - fire cloud is perfectly safe to use against B9 blessed units, except that it probably means your mages are in range to suicide via normal spells once they go off script.

Cloud spells are NOT fine. You take damage for them same as any other offense.
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Aird14
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Witch Hunter
Yeah Lictor are damn hard comparing they are even better than their live counterparts in every sense(weird is the same for all the ermor undead versions except hp).

I will thug my arch angels and cast living fire.

Also I can use fire storm, currently at hand I have 4 arch angels.

I was thinking use ivy shield, saint robes, or have a ethereal.spell. cast by equipment or a mage( a shame arch angel is only fire.mage)

What else I can forge for them?

I have access to F6E5S5N6, A3 and W1-2(if I empower a water indy)

Maybe something to resist fire.

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Johannes
*Spicy* Crew
Fire Storm is probably a bad idea, you need a shitton of MR items and high HP to stay alive from the B9 damage, plus it hurts your own human troops just as much as the enemy even if you can get basic fire res for them.


Thugging out Arch Angels - against pure lictors it's a great plan. I wouldn't necessarily give them any shield, since the Flambeau they have will 1-hit kill Lictors. A Flame Brand would only slowly nibble away at their regeneration.

For armor you want something with high Protection, to couple with the 25 invulnerability you already have. Armor of Knights is a good basic choice.

Then you want MR and regeneration, and some reinvirogation.

I'd go as a basic setup: Armor of Knights, Starshine Skullcap, Messenger's Boots, Amulet of Regeneration, Antimagic Amulet.

For spells cast, most important is ofc cold resistance to not die to the cold aura. Phoenix Pyre is great if you have it researched. Fire Shield is nice.
Then you can cast Ethereal with a Witch Hunter on the angel. Plus Antimagic will also buff his MR like everyone's.

You have any bless yourself? E4 at least would be helpful.


Extra caution and gear might be needed to counter the mages he has with the army, but those should be enough to deal with lictors and basic undead.
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Aird14
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Witch Hunter
Johannes,Feb 10 2017
01:32 AM
Fire Storm is probably a bad idea, you need a shitton of MR items and high HP to stay alive from the B9 damage, plus it hurts your own human troops just as much as the enemy even if you can get basic fire res for them.


Thugging out Arch Angels - against pure lictors it's a great plan. I wouldn't necessarily give them any shield, since the Flambeau they have will 1-hit kill Lictors. A Flame Brand would only slowly nibble away at their regeneration.

For armor you want something with high Protection, to couple with the 25 invulnerability you already have. Armor of Knights is a good basic choice.

Then you want MR and regeneration, and some reinvirogation.

I'd go as a basic setup: Armor of Knights, Starshine Skullcap, Messenger's Boots, Amulet of Regeneration, Antimagic Amulet.

For spells cast, most important is ofc cold resistance to not die to the cold aura. Phoenix Pyre is great if you have it researched. Fire Shield is nice.
Then you can cast Ethereal with a Witch Hunter on the angel. Plus Antimagic will also buff his MR like everyone's.

You have any bless yourself? E4 at least would be helpful.


Extra caution and gear might be needed to counter the mages he has with the army, but those should be enough to deal with lictors and basic undead.

I have spies seeing his army moving, I don't believe he is holding back his mages for fight (I hope!).

Also I will be summoning fire elementals with maybe 2-3 arch angels vs the army, so 8-12 fire elementals or more if I bring a lot of fire gems.

and head I was thinking something to avoid being hit most than hitting
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Johannes
*Spicy* Crew
How many Lictors are you facing? That p. much determines how many Elementals will be enough.

Thinking about it again the Skullcap for MR is overkill, something with better Prot is probably better. Fear helmet would be ideal (Lictors aren't morale immune, and combines well with the high Awe), but probably you can't make it?
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Rejakor
*Spicy* Crew
I dunno. I'd that 1h x3 vs undead weapon (holy scourge?) and vine shield. Quantity of incoming attacks could result in damage when the Archangel('sk) is fully surrounded, as Lictors with a b9d9 bless hit quite hard. With it's str, the 1h should be fine, and the vine shield will lower incoming attacks especially from lower-str longdead.

But I mean, fire elementals. Burn'em. BURN THEM ALL. If they have too much stuff and you need more elementals, easy. Witch hunter communion, spam elementals until the witch elgies die (pots and phoenix power them first), keep spamming. With PP and 4 slaves, a witch hunter is F5, and should only use one gem when making a fire elemental, and can use Living Fire if you got it.
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Rejakor
*Spicy* Crew
Also uh, you don't want to be summoning fire elementals with '2-3 arch angels'. That is.. completely pointless. You always SPAM elementals. All your mages are fire mages. Why are you not using your recruitable mages.

I recommend the discord for asking questions as it is easier to answer them and quicker responses.
https://discord.gg/sUU8X
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Aird14
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Witch Hunter
To all here, Thank You

General idea is to play defensive in that part of the map using the tactics I learn from you, try to push my dominion so purgatory helps a little(he has to go through 3 providences with at least 5 candles by now), maybe it doesn't kill mages, priest, lictors or knights, but he is going to battle without chaft.

So I hope to get some thrones to win before he brings everything.
@Johannes
Yeah I can make fear helmets still I believe I saw a item to give awe(not sure maybe I was dreaming).

@Rejakor
Yeah I will use all my mages, just finishing off Man is between and I don't want to risk so many mages to many fights, so I will have at least 10 free fire elementals per battle(I working to get another front with mages and anything I can use as meat shield, more likely flagellants and crossbows to delay in the time they cast fire elementals).

Also, as I said I have spies on all the map, so I started to move my arch angels into Ermor territory to take unprotected providences, so he is not getting some cash of the lands he stole from Man, so he doesn't make more forts and temples. For last having H3 priest roaming around with living fire is good to delay the bad dominion.


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Johannes
*Spicy* Crew
Rejakor,Feb 10 2017
09:17 AM
I dunno. I'd that 1h x3 vs undead weapon (holy scourge?) and vine shield. Quantity of incoming attacks could result in damage when the Archangel('sk) is fully surrounded, as Lictors with a b9d9 bless hit quite hard. With it's str, the 1h should be fine, and the vine shield will lower incoming attacks especially from lower-str longdead.

Holy Scourge is 2-handed. Herald Lance is 1-handed, but costs 10S. So that and Vine Shield are really quite expensive for what you get, in comparison to the Flambeau the Angel comes with naturally.

Fear + Awe + ~35 Prot + Regen + Body Ethereal should be enough, but you really need that BE cast by a mage. Even safer if you have Phoenix Pyre.

Oh and the Lictors don't have D9, though I think it wouldn't make too much difference against these protections + MR 26 anyway.
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