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Thermostat in the way?
Topic Started: Apr 6 2013, 11:52 AM (88,638 Views)
Music Guy123
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Hi there,

Seem to have hit a spot of bother! I was testing the two poles that go from the back of the fugitve under the engine to where the gearbox mounts. Now, one of them is fine, the other has the thermostat in the way! What should I do? I guess I could remove the thermostat but I'd rather not do that. If I did remove it, could I operate the flaps manually? Say, close them for the warm up when i start the engine, then open them when I wish to drive? I'd rather not modify the placement of the poles too much, i.e. not move them so they are wider apart. I could re-engineer the poles so that they have a dip that goes under the thermostat, but this isn't really ideal!

Anyway, any help would be much appreciated on the matter! All the best.

Music Guy
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100bob
Fuggin' chats like a robot
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I can't 100% picture what you mean, but is removing the thermostat and replacing it with a capillary thermostat in a more convenient location an option, or am I misunderstanding completely?
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Music Guy123
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Sorry for not making myself clear! There is a bellow thermostat on the bottom of the engine. As shown in this picture:

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/437208.jpg

(not mine, just a pic off google, I wish my engine looked that neat :D!)

Anyway, that is in the way of the tubes that go from the rear of the rail, down under the engine. So what to do? A lot of people remove theirs, but I'm a bit loathed to do that, as it means the heads can't heat up properly, especially awful on cold starts.

A capillary thermostat, never heard of that, how does it work/where could I get one?

Also, I'm on a tight budget here so don't particularly want to spend too much!

Thanks very much for your reply, it is much appreciated, all the best!
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100bob
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I'm totally unfamiliar with the aircooled set up you have, but a capillary thermostat is basically the same thing as you'd have on a cooker! They are easy to fit, as they will slip into the water pipe on pretty much any relevant connection. They are adjustable, and cost less than a fiver. Mine came off of eBay, and worked perfectly.
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Music Guy123
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Water pipe? There's very little water in an aircooled engine I'm afraid old chap ;)!

The thermostat is just a bellow, as it heats up, it pushes a rod up and opens a set of flaps at the bottom of the fan housing. It's a mechanical affair with no liquid involved... Sorry, but I'm kinda struggling to see what you are getting at!!

Thanks ever so much for your time and help, it is ever so much appreciated :)!
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100bob
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I didn't even look at the pic until now, because aircooled dub engines really aren't my thing, and I know little about them.

When you said thermostat and aircooled, I just assumed you'd got a waterboxer bus engine set up or something similar, then it may have made sense.

So no, in this instance you can't use a capillary, not without some clever engineering anyway.
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Music Guy123
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Hi,

Ok, yes, I see, sorry for not making myself clear from the start, my fault! I appreciate your time and effort though, thank you :).

Anyways, back to my thermostat! I think we can agree the capillary thermostat is beyond my capabilities, good idea though! I was wondering whether manually shutting the flaps for start up, then opening them again after 3 minutes of warm up, would that be suitable? Out of interest, what do you guys have as your setup?Have you done away with the thermostat completely and just run open flaps? Other than moving the poles, have you found other alternatives?

Any suggestions would be absolutely wonderful!

All the best :).
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100bob
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Think it was more my lack of aircooled knowledge to be honest.

What you're saying sounds quite plausible, but I'm clearly not the person to know for sure.
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gtmdriver
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My car , when I bought it, was rigged with the flaps permanently open but having taken advice I am refitting the correct system.

I am having to buy a new stat, mounting bracket, link rod and, most importantly apparently, the under-cylinder tinware (sled tinware) as the thermostat doesn't work correctly without it.

This decision was taken after hearing tales of slow warm up, low running temperatures, incorrect piston clearances, low oil temperatures and excess wear.
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Music Guy123
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Yes, it is a common misconception that they are not needed, in fact, they desperately are! If you don't of the main problems is that petrol gets squirted down the walls of the cylinder (it doesn't combust) and it ends up diluting the oil....not good! Yes, that tinware is vital, it keeps the heat from dissapating too quickly so that the thermostat does feel the temperature of the engine. If it isn't there, you can get cold air (especially when driving along) passing underneath the car and passing the thermostat, meaning it cools down and closes the flaps...you can see the problem ;)! Anyway, good for you for doing it, they should never be removed, no matter what one's climate is!

Anyway, I'd be interested to see how your thermostat fits, would your poles not get in the way? Or do you think your poles are far enough apart to avoid it? I was wondering whether to get a bit of box tubing and where the pole comes up to the thermostat, take it to the right with the box tube and around if that makes any sense? If you want I can do a rough sketch in a 3D CAD program.

The other alternative is to shut the flaps for warm up, then once it has warmed up, I pull the leaver across and leave them open. Anyway, what's your opinion on which I should do?

Do you have space between your engine and poles to fit the thermostat? If so, could you take a picture, because my engine may well be mounted incorrectly, I don't know!

Anyway, thank you all ever so much for your interest, it is truely helpful and very interesting for me!

All the best.
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Music Guy123
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Right, had a look at my precious little car today :)! I figured a way of sorting out this problem. I can drop the poles slightly so that they go under the thermostat. The advantage of this is that I can weld a thin sheet of steel or aluminium, depending on how I feel! to the base of the poles, This will create a plate that will protect the sump. Also, as I don't have the sled thing for the thermostat, it may have to double up as that as well, don't know yet!

Anyway, what are your opinions on this? It will mean I drop the poles by approximately 50mm.

Also, can I ask you guys what your clearance under your sump is? In particularly for offroad use! I want to raise my fug, but I don't want to over-do it, I guess I'm limited by the driveshafts mainly, does anyone know what the maximum angle they can be is??

Sorry for all these questions, all the best, thank you all ever so much for the amazing help!

Music Guy
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gtmdriver
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That may be a problem I have yet to overcome as I haven't tried the engine frame on it yet.
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Music Guy123
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Haha, I see, well, please do let me know how it pans out for you! I'd be very interested :)!
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gtmdriver
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Well I've tried it now and there's no way the engine frame will fit with the lower engine tinware in place and it certainly won't fit with a standard silencer unit as the two exhaust tail pipes line up exactly with the frame down tubes. Bugger!
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Music Guy123
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Hi,

Hmm, interesting you had the same problem as me. Firstly with regards to the exhaust, I've got a bobcat thingy which doesn't seem to cause any problems. But as for the tinware, we may have problems! I have yet to put my solution to the test (i.e. build it) but it's a possibility. I was thinking maybe remove all the tinware underneath (by this i mean the one plate under the thermostat). Then cut the tube either side of the thermostat or wherever it is that is causing the obstruction. I was then considering putting bits of steel box tube in to move the cut out segment to the right (looking at car from rear). So basically add a "U" shape into the straight pole. Does that make sense? If not I'll try to draw some diagrams. Then, to compensate for the lack of tinware, if a steel plate (or aluminium for road use maybe) was attached to the bottom of these tubes, it would both act as a skid plate and a piece of thermal tinware that could keep the heat on the thermostat. Does that make any sense at all? I'd be interested if you have any solutions, I was potentially considering cutting the two tubes off and relocating them further apart, but that's not gonna be easy, especially on the gearbox end! Anyways, all the best, would be interested in your opinions!

Music Guy
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