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CLOSEDWho would you like to see back?CLOSED; Nicaragua Jury Stage: Allstars
Topic Started: Mar 21 2011, 01:52 AM (1,840 Views)
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The only situation where Chase was "led on" was with Brenda in the Shannon situation, and it's not even like he suffered for it? XI, I think is just upset because there was potential for a dominant alpha-male alliance and that was ruined. So what? I think it just shows some serious gender role issues because what I'm led to believe from your posts XI (and I'm really not trying to pick on your or anything but it seems to be a pattern...) is that you dislike men who take a subservient role to women but you also dislike women who take any kind of aggressive approach to the game?

And I also don't see why it was dumb or pussy-whipped of Chase to try and save Brenda at the final 10. Had Brenda not gone, Benry would have, and then Chase would have been aligned with all of Brenda, NaOnka, Sash, KShinn, Holly, and Jane. I mean, talk about being set.

And like Snoopy said, what lost Chase the game could have easily made him one of the greatest players ever had he received ONE more jury vote. His genuineness gained him allies with seemingly not effort and it was also what made people so hurt when he had to vote them out. I know that's an odd claim but like... it's true. Chase came within one vote of winning the game and several of the votes cast FOR Jud are still questionable and never justified very well.
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Yeah I still don't get why Na'Onka voted Jud over Chase? WTF? So random.

The only problem I see with Chase being aligned with everyone though is that he's obviously going to have to break deals and piss people off when the numbers get less and less (which he did indeed do, although he still got Brenda and Jane's votes). And the problem with breaking deals for Chase is, he's too much of a softy to cut deals swiftly, he kind of does it by not looking you in the eye and telling you you're the next one leaving. And because he's such a softy he (from what I gathered) made people believe he was their #1 ally so it hurt even more to break ties with people.

But he played > Jud. And Sash could have owned his game but IDK, it just died in the end so Chase > Sash as well.

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ImmaPlayafosho
Mar 22 2011, 04:29 PM
Yeah I still don't get why Na'Onka voted Jud over Chase?  WTF?  So random. 

The only problem I see with Chase being aligned with everyone though is that he's obviously going to have to break deals and piss people off when the numbers get less and less (which he did indeed do, although he still got Brenda and Jane's votes).  And the problem with breaking deals for Chase is, he's too much of a softy to cut deals swiftly, he kind of does it by not looking you in the eye and telling you you're the next one leaving.  And because he's such a softy he (from what I gathered) made people believe he was their #1 ally so it hurt even more to break ties with people.

PERSONALLYME, I think there was some jury house swaying. I think that Benry had influence over KShinn and NaOnka, I really do, and I noticed once Benry got to the jury house there was this new "thing" where everyone laughed and applauded over the unintelligent and not clever things Jud would say. :rolleyes: KShinn in particular seemed much closer to people like Benry and Jud (who then also shit talked her behind her back) than she did to Chase, who she only seemed linked to because of her attachment to Sash & Brenda.

I agree that breaking deals was a bad thing but Chase never suffered from the deals he broke. Everyone Chase "backstabbed" voted for him, minus Benry who was one of the only understandable Jud votes.
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Mikester
Mar 22 2011, 04:33 PM
ImmaPlayafosho
Mar 22 2011, 04:29 PM
Yeah I still don't get why Na'Onka voted Jud over Chase?  WTF?  So random. 

The only problem I see with Chase being aligned with everyone though is that he's obviously going to have to break deals and piss people off when the numbers get less and less (which he did indeed do, although he still got Brenda and Jane's votes).  And the problem with breaking deals for Chase is, he's too much of a softy to cut deals swiftly, he kind of does it by not looking you in the eye and telling you you're the next one leaving.  And because he's such a softy he (from what I gathered) made people believe he was their #1 ally so it hurt even more to break ties with people.

PERSONALLYME, I think there was some jury house swaying. I think that Benry had influence over KShinn and NaOnka, I really do, and I noticed once Benry got to the jury house there was this new "thing" where everyone laughed and applauded over the unintelligent and not clever things Jud would say. :rolleyes: KShinn in particular seemed much closer to people like Benry and Jud (who then also shit talked her behind her back) than she did to Chase, who she only seemed linked to because of her attachment to Sash & Brenda.

I agree that breaking deals was a bad thing but Chase never suffered from the deals he broke. Everyone Chase "backstabbed" voted for him, minus Benry who was one of the only understandable Jud votes.

I noticed the sudden Jud-fandom too in the jury house and I wondered who was responsible for that until I forgot about it and stopped caring.

But Na'Onka and Chase had a really good connection so I still don't know what in the hell kind of influencing could have changed her to vote Jud. But apparently their feud was also played up by the editing as well and they also had a good relationship out there too (at least better than what was shown)?

Yeah, none of Chase's deal-breaking hurt him in the end really but I was just pointing out that his flaw was he kind of roped too many people in with his gentle charm and I don't think he was realizing that by the end of the day he had too many people expecting loyalty from him. I kind of feel like he put relationships above the game whereas I think it should be reversed.

But nontheless his game was far superior to Jud's, and Sash totally lost it in the end when all his lies blew up in his face. Charm > diplomatic strategizing which is what got Chase votes over Sash. (See: Tocantins JT vs Stephen as a reference).
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That's a PERFECT reference <333

JT, Chase, Sash and Stephen <333

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Jud ruined EVERYTHING by winning :angry:
2012 PLACEMENTS
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Mikester
Mar 22 2011, 05:22 PM
The only situation where Chase was "led on" was with Brenda in the Shannon situation, and it's not even like he suffered for it? XI, I think is just upset because there was potential for a dominant alpha-male alliance and that was ruined. So what? I think it just shows some serious gender role issues because what I'm led to believe from your posts XI (and I'm really not trying to pick on your or anything but it seems to be a pattern...) is that you dislike men who take a subservient role to women but you also dislike women who take any kind of aggressive approach to the game?

And I also don't see why it was dumb or pussy-whipped of Chase to try and save Brenda at the final 10. Had Brenda not gone, Benry would have, and then Chase would have been aligned with all of Brenda, NaOnka, Sash, KShinn, Holly, and Jane. I mean, talk about being set.

And like Snoopy said, what lost Chase the game could have easily made him one of the greatest players ever had he received ONE more jury vote. His genuineness gained him allies with seemingly not effort and it was also what made people so hurt when he had to vote them out. I know that's an odd claim but like... it's true. Chase came within one vote of winning the game and several of the votes cast FOR Jud are still questionable and never justified very well.

The thing that gets me about Chase's "dealbreaking" or whatever the hell you want to call it, is that he whined over it. Like, it seemed whenever he had to switch gears in his game he complained about it and got all paranoid about everything, as has been mentioned before. Sure, he was genuine, and I get that it may have made a couple sad when they went, but he really did seem like he had no balls and that half the time he was apologizing, for EVERYTHING. Also, I don't like the thought of all-male alliances brought together to take out the girls (though I'm sure people are going to jump in with bits about me liking the Renegades and the Brigade, even though those situations were totally different). I was mostly upset about the Shannon thing because it put Brenda/Naonka/Sash (the 3 people I, at the time, hated most on that tribe, and 2 of them stayed as people I really hated the whole way) in a GOOD position and Kelbina and Fabio in a bad position. I don't give a fuck that it was Shannon that went since I hate him, but him going just made things worse for my three La Flor favourites.

For the record though, I don't "hate" females who play the game aggressively or strategically. I mean hell, I like Kathy V, Cirie, Chinamanda, Ami (hell, she's one of my favourites), Holly, and Laura (I've heard she's weird post-show, but I haven't read any of the stuff). Even as far as aggressive or 'strong' women, I like Twila, who I probably shouldn't if the accusations made sense.
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XI420
Mar 22 2011, 06:13 PM
The thing that gets me about Chase's "dealbreaking" or whatever the hell you want to call it, is that he whined over it. Like, it seemed whenever he had to switch gears in his game he complained about it and got all paranoid about everything, as has been mentioned before. Sure, he was genuine, and I get that it may have made a couple sad when they went, but he really did seem like he had no balls and that half the time he was apologizing, for EVERYTHING. Also, I don't like the thought of all-male alliances brought together to take out the girls (though I'm sure people are going to jump in with bits about me liking the Renegades and the Brigade, even though those situations were totally different). I was mostly upset about the Shannon thing because it put Brenda/Naonka/Sash (the 3 people I, at the time, hated most on that tribe, and 2 of them stayed as people I really hated the whole way) in a GOOD position and Kelbina and Fabio in a bad position. I don't give a fuck that it was Shannon that went since I hate him, but him going just made things worse for my three La Flor favourites.

lol

When did Chase ever whine about breaking his deals. There was a tweet from him after the show that said, "I backstabbed someone on Survivor? So?" Or something to that extent. And LOL at the fact that you criticize Chase for whining about breaking his deals. THAT IS ALL FABIO DID. All he did was cry about how Chase promised to take him on the reward and didn't. They got back from the reward and all Fabio did was whine. Maybe you are projecting your hate of Fabio onto Chase and just don't get it. :unsure:

The reason Chase garnered so many votes at that FTC is because he owned up to what he did and was hesitantly apologetic while still letting people know it was a game, and he got to the end because of that.

The alliances were ALL over the place in that merge since there was really no one consistently in power so Chase had the right to be paranoid most of the time. It wasn't becoming but when Brenda and NaOnka went from being BFF one day to trying to get each other the next day, it fosters paranoia. That whole episode is kinda what brought forth that storyline anyway.
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He seemed paranoid waay before that. And that Fabio/Chase thing about the reward was hardly a strong bit of Fabio's storyline arc. It was a tiny part of one episode that Fabio was actually justified in since Chase had gone on about being genuine, and that proved he wasn't. I'd hardly call Chase's FTC "hesitantly apologetic". Overly apologetic and unable to really see the criticism he was garnering is probably more along the lines. Don't get me wrong, I think he really WAS trying to see, he just wasn't able to at all. Besides, regardless of the issues between Brenda and Naonka, both of them were like BFFs with Chase. He should've been glad that they were still good with him, not worried he'd be next. And no, I don't have any Fabio hate. I find him funny and underrated. He wasn't in my top 4 for overall favourites for no reason you know. Of course, I can see people thinking to bring up the "he's as bad as Bob" bit, which since he's nowhere near that bad, would just make them look crazy, not me.
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ImmaPlayafosho
Mar 22 2011, 05:29 PM
Yeah I still don't get why Na'Onka voted Jud over Chase? WTF? So random.

I'm parroting a post that I read a long time ago but I think that it may have been a form of self-therapy for her. She quit and afterwards may have felt guilt about it, so asking a question to Fabio about if seeing his mom gave him enough drive to make the end was sort of her way of convincing herself that if she had made the family visit and had gotten to see her loved one, she could have made the end too - Fabio saying that it did give him that motivation is what she wanted to hear, of course, so that I guess she could've told herself "okay, I could've done it too then." Idk. But yeah, her random vote ruined the season -_-
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Please, NOT having Chase or Sash win into and of itself saved the season. Hell, Dan could've won and it would've saved the season. Jane? No. But Dan/Holly/Fabio winning over the other 3? Yes.
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I thought Fabio was awful :unsure: I would have even preferred a Jane win. Maybe if his OTT lolderpderp edit kept up through-out the season he would have been a decent winner in a fun trainwreck sort of way, but hearing "lol i'm so smart + playing it cool they think i'm dumb tho" every episode in the 2nd half of the season was boring and made it very obvious that he was the winner.
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Snoopy
Mar 22 2011, 02:08 PM
I mean Na Onka gave him an idol but I guess she was leading him on then too...

And then she didn't vote for him. ^_^ Naynay knowing what's up! :wub:

Mikester
Mar 22 2011, 04:22 PM
Chase came within one vote of winning the game and several of the votes cast FOR Jud are still questionable and never justified very well.

The majority liked Jud more than Chase. Isn't that enough?

That's what annoys me about most Survivor fans. Most casual viewers accept that Jud won because more jurors liked him but they don't accept that Natalie won because more jurors liked her. GTS/Sucks seems to be the opposite just for the sake of being different. They accept Natalie's win but not Jud's. Now, I'm not saying Chase had anywhere near as horrible of a social game as Hantz but still...why accept it for one person but not for another?

The only vote a juror made that can really be described as surprising is Nay's. I haven't seen her explain it in any interviews (although I haven't gone looking) so I don't know her reasonings. Maybe, at the end of the day, she really DID like Jud more and the editing was off? Maybe Chase let her down? Maybe she thought Jud played a better game? I don't know. The point is Jud did something right (or Chase did something wrong) to get for her to vote for him. That's all that matters.

Now, let's end this. First of all, I hate Chase and love Fabio.

Chase played a good (not great; not bad; GOOD) game. Chase had a fantastic FTC. Jud deserved to win.
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I dunno, I was actually surprised Alina voted Chase over Fabio, that Jane didn't get...Jane-like and vote Fabio, and that Holly didn't vote Fabio, though since they were in an alliance and she wasn't really backstabbed/thrown away/she's not a vile bitter stupid hag, it actually makes sense.
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Who are the delusional people voting for Alina? She was useless! FIrst, she couldn't even tell what a blind person could have told her, that she was on the outside of the tribe. And after a switch which was the perfect time to flip, she didn't because she felt safe while her former teammates plotted against her. And it's only after the merge and her involvement in Naonkagate that she realized she was on the outside.

What are people smoking that they think she would in any way be interesting enough to bring back again? She did fuck all and tears on the jury doesn't change she was one of the least aware players ever.
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Mar 22 2011, 08:32 PM
I dunno, I was actually surprised Alina voted Chase over Fabio, that Jane didn't get...Jane-like and vote Fabio, and that Holly didn't vote Fabio, though since they were in an alliance and she wasn't really backstabbed/thrown away/she's not a vile bitter stupid hag, it actually makes sense.

Makes sense to me.

1.) Chase had a strong FTC. Yeah, he really did. He owned up to everything he did, showed confidence, and explained why he did what he did.
2.) He had made connections with Holly and Jane, whereas Jud didn't.
3.) Remember how Jud responded to Alinda when she went to him in need?

Jud:"..see, this is why nobody likes you, Alina. You're like playing the game and stuff."
Alina:" :alien No shit I'm playing the game. It's Survivor, and everyone's trying to vote me out. Can you blame me for coming to you, WHO IS ALSO ON THE OUTS OF A MAJORITY ALLIANCE?"
Jud: :wacko: "You're shady. No one likes you."

Instead Jud set himself up so he had to depend on immunities to keep him safe. He was blind to the fact that he was putting himself in a worse position by voting Alina out, and she probably saw that and thought how much of an idiot he was for it. Not to mention #1.

Jud's FTC sucked ass. All he did was cry and say he missed his mom.
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Mar 22 2011, 08:32 PM
I dunno, I was actually surprised Alina voted Chase over Fabio, that Jane didn't get...Jane-like and vote Fabio, and that Holly didn't vote Fabio, though since they were in an alliance and she wasn't really backstabbed/thrown away/she's not a vile bitter stupid hag, it actually makes sense.

The fact that they DID vote Chase just shows how great his FTC was.
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ImmaPlayafosho
Mar 22 2011, 08:38 PM
Jud's FTC sucked ass. All he did was cry and say he missed his mom.

X!

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They accept Natalie's win but not Jud's. Now, I'm not saying Chase had anywhere near as horrible of a social game as Hantz but still...why accept it for one person but not for another?

Umm because the edit did not make sense at all. There was HUGE confusion after the reveal since we had no idea who voted for who. I remember my friend and I sat there for like an hour trying to figure out if Holly and Jane voted for Chase or if Nay and Kelly Purple did. We checked Wikipedia but it kept changing.

We KNOW why Natalie won the game, it was Survivor 101 but the editors never made it clear as to why Jud won and why he beat Chase. I mean he was the casual favorite to win going into the finale, so I guess they didn't think they needed to but to go from someone like Nay who had a feud with Jud all during the season and she GAVE Chase her idol to voting for Jud to win, with almost no explanation just irritated me and that is why I don't really think Jud deserved to win as much.

Also Jud had to rely on challenge wins to get to the end, that is the only reason he won the game. I still don't understand why people compare his game to Natalie's since she never needed to rely on challenge wins to get to the end. She was strongly in a majority alliance and had a great social game which is why she won. So I don't think that comparing the Samoa FTC/result to Nicaragua really has any importance in this discussion.
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Jud made more people like him despite not playing the game too hard, I don't see what's wrong with that. It's a social game. Chase made people feel like he was wishy washy more generally than Fabio did.

Jud was a threat to win, people knew it at F7. He made inroads with weird people like Dan and Marty. Sure he had to save his own ass with immunity, but that's kinda what threats do. It's what Medusa had to do in Disney, but no one calls her a bad winner (or do they :iiam).

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