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PVW - Showcase 11.30.11
Topic Started: Nov 30 2011, 04:19 PM (3,568 Views)
DCGMoo
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Disciple of Moo
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Agreed on Craven, my favorite of the show. I've followed Craven for a long time, through the E and into the WWO. I was one of those championing for him finally getting into that World Title status in WWO. But that promo was the first time I truly believed that Craven himself believed it was that time, that I saw Craven look like a man who was both capable of and interested in executing the fed's World Champion and not just satisfied being a sideshow attraction.

Seeing Merc show anything remotely resembling regret over Epstein is an interesting turn. Looking forward to seeing phase two of that story.

Also interested in the next phase of Christopher Black, as it'll be tough to maintain the level of heel he reached last cycle but it looks like he's gonna give it one heck of a shot.

Uncle Frank almost has me convinced that Marcus Manson is more evil than even Frank is. How dare he harm his pretty!

And lemme give props to the entire tag division. L&G played the loss extremely well, even if Moze is trying to kill Gutch. The Berserkers continue to win me over in a way I totally did NOT expect them to when I first saw them. Max and Sal didn't wow me, but they just won their long-deserved belts so a celebration song is certainly in order. And all three of the new teams (aside from C&C, who the hell signed those nutjobs again?) gave great, unique intros that showed the tag division will turn out just fine despite the defections.
Working on new characters you didn't see a decade ago. Honest.
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ProfessorDoran
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The Learning Tree
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Needs more 'Dro. Where you at broseph?
Cole Hamels Fact #1685: The Devil went down to Georgia because he knew if he went to Philadelphia, Cole would strike his ass out.

http://mysite.verizon.net/heyjude421/chf/chf.html
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DaveG
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Bushido Brown
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Overly_Critical_Jue,Dec 1 2011
03:38 PM
Spectre is here to hurt you.

Chance is here to help you.

That's how I differentiate it.

That's Chance, always helpful.

Plus, half his rp's are song lyrics and/or poems!
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texanspaniard
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The Luther Burger
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OK, here are my thoughts on Showcase. My apologies to Matt Tiegs ahead of time.

-William Craven
[Wow! Psycho out of his mind from blood loss Craven wanting to go out and strike at Gibson and the lack of any title shot still tearing at his heart.. I was into this. I like this direction and if this is the start of a build up to Craven ultimately getting a title shot next cycle or so, that title shot that has always evaded him everywhere.. I can't wait to see it happen!]


-The Berserkers
[BERSERKERS ARE LEADING THE CHARGE AGAINST HOPE! I have a feeling we'll be seeing alot of folks coming out against HOPE in this show. Fun promo, they put over the ASLL Tag Title win, put over the heinous evil actions of HOPE at the end of Boiling Point II and since they were involved in the postmain event angle it makes sense that they are so fired up to go after HOPE. Fun promo!]


-Supreme Wright & Chance Holiday
[I like that they brought up, I'm assuming, IPW history between the characters to promote a match between them. They did it in a cool way. Fun read, though they did get the PPV name wrong, sorry I couldn't help but notice it.]


-The Biz
[Sold the match pretty well. Will be interesting to see what story develops for him this cycle.]


-Spectre
[Very interesting. Spectre is disappointed in those who went out to fight HOPE at the end of BPII and he doesn't think much of HOPE themselves. He seems to have some evil plan on hand for those who are going to pursue HOPE.. Hmmmm. Good stuff!]


-Chris Hartt
[WOW! His best promo in some time! He put over Nevermind a bit then ran down his history with Gibson and sold the match against Gibson and the crusade against HOPE like a 100 grand! Really good job here in selling the match and the situation ie PVW vs HOPE. Hartt's best promo in some time.]


-Max & Sal
[HAHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHA! That was the best title win celebration song.. EVER!!! Dug the HECK out of this! HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!]


-Adrian Freeman
[Good promo. Put over his feud with Wright and the result of their match in a good heel way then did a good sell of the match against Daniels with a funny heel opinion on Daniels. This was good, can't wait for that match and more in the Freeman-Wright story.]


-Johnny Detson
[WOAH! This was really good! Detson's mental state at losing the "Presidency" was done really well and I was so engrossed and sucked into it. I am guessing the thing that is giving him a reason to continue living is the title shot he won, the Called Shot. I loved how he sold the boot being gone and the ankle work done on him. I really enjoyed this alot. Alot, alot!]


-Christopher Black
[I was really, really curious to read this one. I was wondering what he would do with the loss. In the end, this is a really good teaser. We get a hint at the state of mind he is in after the loss but are lift to fill in with our imaginations and that is good. Can't wait to see how his story turns out this cycle.]


-Matt Tiegs
[I was not a fan of this RP. Not at all. Hated the set up of the promo, had lots of issues with the attitude in it and what Tiegs had to say. A big misstep, IMO. My least favorite RP in.. a very, very long time. I am open to discussing this with the handler in e-mail or on PMs so I won't go into more detail about it here but yeah.. Really disliked this RP.]


-Gold Rush
[It was fun, I get that they're showing us the dynamic of the team and the personalities. Solid opening RP for them.]


-Nevermind
[I enjoyed the promo, I may be one of the biggest Nevermind fans here, but moreso after the Tiegs promo I can't imagine anyone NOT rooting for Nevermind to not only win but go to town on Tiegs as he does so. GO NEVERMIND!]


-Talion
[Good promo! An honorable masked man paying his dues for his past and for getting places, this wasn't bad at all. It has promise, interested to see how he does against Livestock and see how he developes.]


-Eric Seiger
[WOW! That was really good! Like.. Really good! The manager put over Spectre and Black like the two top guys in PVW one could face and really made this into a huge challenge for Seiger and Dawson to go up against them. Really sold the match, HUGE! Really enjoyed this alot, can't wait for the match and to see more from Seiger.]


-Legacy
[The setup: The dreaded training in a ring set up. *sobs* One of my least favorite cliches settings in e-w. BUT.. This wasn't bad! I felt it was a bit long but I got what they were building up to and I think it hyped them up as a young tag team with promise pretty well. Not bad!]


-Derek Weaver
[I think the writing in this promo was fine. I'm a little up in the air on the whole premise but I think it is probably best to see how it plays out more before really going into more about that.]


-Cow & Chicken
[HAHHAHA! This was funny and a ton of fun! I am going to get a kick out of these guys in PVW! Lots of fun!]


-Heath Dawson
[Good debut RP! Sold his story, his tag match against Spectre & Black, and made me legit interested in what happens to him. Good stuff! Some good debut promos lately in PVW!]


-Sons of Anarchy
[That was fun! I am interested to see how these guys develope, though if they are Manchester United supporters I will totally root against them! INSTANT HEAT THEN IF THEY'RE MAN U SUPPORTERS! If they are, wait til the day I write one of their matches! BWAHAHAHA! But promising, should be a fun team!]


-The Mercenary
[YOWZA! Jessica Marshall is one sick puppy! That was an interesting read. I am curious where Merc goes from here this cycle. Should be interesting.]


-Rob Cole
[Interesting. Cole seems at a low point, a breaking point almost, which he's already been at for two cycles in the Craven feud. I am curious how the Mystery Man will take advantage of this and make Cole want to fight again since he seems kind of fed up at the moment. Should be interesting, I can't wait to see how it unfolds.]


-Chance Holiday
[Wow! He really sold me on the match against Phoenix and has me legit scared for Phoenix! Really dug the writing in this promo, I can't wait to read more. Good stuff!]


-HVD
[To be honest, I didn't find his reasons for turning all that convincing or very logical but like with Weaver, I have to see how it plays out before I can say more really.]


-Livestock & Gutch
[WOAH! Moze is seriously bringing it lately! This was super compelling, super engrossing and DAMN! Gutch.. Diabetic.. POTENTIALLY RETIRED?!!! Yowza! Man.. This is some good stuff. Dug the heck out of this and can't wait to see what happens with these two.]


-Uncle Frank
[OH MY GOD! UNCLE FRANK FREAKING RULES! This was AWESOME! Oh man.. I can't even say anything constructive I AM MARKING OUT TOO MUCH! UNCLE FRANK! UNCLE FRANK! UNCLE FRANK!]


-Marcus Manson
[WOAH! Manson F-ing brought it! I am like SOLD on him vs Uncle Frank in a full on feud! This was a really good promo and I am really glad that Manson has found some fire in this past cycle and into now! I hope he keeps it going cos it's looking really good to me. Really good promo, can't wait for more Manson vs Uncle Frank!]


-Supreme Wright
[DAMN! That was really, really good! The angle he took in trying to get Merc to come after him as hard as he went after Epstein, was really great. Fantastic promo, IMO! This has left me really hyped up! Really good stuff!]


-Sinister & Berserkers
[ Covering both parts here. They sold the events of the postmain event HUGE and they seem way focused for the match, they sold the match well. While I enjoyed this it was pretty large and it probably could've used some editing to produce an even stronger promo. But it did it's job and that is going to be some fight! Can't wait!]


-AsH, Perry Fontana & SCD
[Why are AsH & Fontana sharing company with that hack SCD? Poor souls!]


-Gibson Hayes
[Hmm! I wonder who the photo was of and the whole caged animal thing? I makes me think it's Detson, especially with the pleas to buy him off etc. Was kind of cool seeing the dynamic within HOPE and how it's Johnstone juggling a bunch of personalities so the whole thing doesn't implode on itself. Good read! I am kind of curious about the meeting between Gibson & HVD.]
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rcole
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Dr. Weird
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The Tiegs promo made me want to punch a baby.
Punch a BABY!!!!

And while his handler keeps on using the term "Babyface"... I will quote a famous movie: "You keep on using this word. I do not think you know what it means."

No one is beating up on Tiegs because he's a baby face... it's because this the character is uniquely arrogant in a way that is not only galling, but incredibly offensive. To walk in without nary a glance at the roster, without even taking into consideration your complete newness, to call out the biggest names in the room without knowing the slightest thing about who these characters are and what their history in the promotion is reeks of unmitigated GALL.

But... to make your promo while in the ring of ANOTHER promotion where you may have played at some prior time, to stand in a ring with fans of another promotion and have them CHEER you while you promote yourself in a completely different promotion? First, you turn the "fans" into nothing more than an ornamentation for your character... they're little more than a ring robe or a gimicked weapon.

And this is coming from the player who actually thought the aforementioned British Yakuza white-slave ring operator with a Sailor Moon sister showed a small degree of potential to actually BE a good character. I see nothing in this promo.

And second... this promo made me want to punch a baby!!! :censored:


That is all.
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Berger
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Wooooooo!
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First Sammy Knight, now Matt Tiegs.

Debuting faces are not good at endearing themselves to the PVW roster, are they? :P
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rcole
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Dr. Weird
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It's not the "Face" issue... I actually really liked Sammy Knight, but then he dropped off in the middle of the cycle. Tiegs doesn't come off as a face... at best, it comes off like a false-face... the "good guy everyone hates". And that's stretching it.

If someone brought in a face WITHOUT trying to come off as some sort of savior, I'd be more inclined to cheer them and give them more of a chance. As it is, Tiegs not only dismisses the abilities of every face who has worked his way up the roster but he also walks on top of the fans. There's no interaction between him and the fans in that promo, nothing but a longwinded, condescending lecture.
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Overly_Critical_Jue
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Amigo, I ain't anybody but Juan Vasquez!
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Well, as long as we're giving our $.02

I think Tiegs comes off both trying too hard and putting on a fake act. Like...his intentions aren't genuine and he just wants the publicity. Thus, I don't buy the "babyface" act. He's not a boyscout...he's just holier than thou. If this led to an angle where someone helps him overcome his crazed savior mindset...it might be good. Otherwise, it's pretty off-putting. I remember Picky had told him to tone down on calling the top dogs out and it was like he ramped it up 1000% instead.

And yes...doing a promo in another fed is incredibly NOT the way to go.
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Berger
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Wooooooo!
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Overly_Critical_Jue,Dec 3 2011
02:05 AM
Well, as long as we're giving our $.02

I think Tiegs comes off both trying too hard and putting on a fake act. Like...his intentions aren't genuine and he just wants the publicity. Thus, I don't buy the "babyface" act. He's not a boyscout...he's just holier than thou. If this led to an angle where someone helps him overcome his crazed savior mindset...it might be good. Otherwise, it's pretty off-putting. I remember Picky had told him to tone down on calling the top dogs out and it was like he ramped it up 1000% instead.

And yes...doing a promo in another fed is incredibly NOT the way to go.

Is that where that was? I thought i remembered this being addressed and it must've been in the pickycast.

I'm taking notes here for how to handle Gold Rush's first cycle as a new face team ;)

For what its worth and to be honest, I agree. The PVW "RP" in another feds ring was off putting. I get where he was going with it. In a way I think he had good intentions, and intended to try and put PVW over as being important enough to him to mention elsewhere, but I don't know if it necessarily came out right.

And Rob i wasn't trying to imply that its a "face" problem, it's just a coincidence that two characters that debuted at the PPVs had a bit of a backlash due to the way their debuts came off. :P
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Flouzemaker
The Luther Burger
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Now, I don't want to dogpile on the poor guy, as I'm sure we all want the Matt Tiegs character to work and become an useful and valued part of PVW. The aim is not to publically execute the character, but rather to help guide him in a direction that will hopefully give him better odds of success.

Something like cutting a promo in another federation, I'm certain there are circumstances where the idea would work. In this case, though, it's difficult to imagine MACW fans would care about what HOPE is up to... and presenting Tiegs as a MACW hero pretty much contradicts the idea of Tiegs as a PVW hero.

Things like quoting a definition, slandering the heel announcers or bogging down the promo with a few redundant sentences are perhaps things that could be worked on, but they're not the issue. The problem is that the character comes off as extremely arrogant and pretentious, in this case because he came in immediately gunning for Gibson Hayes' head.

That problem in itself isn't the end of the world. While he wisely did not call out Hayes upon his arrival, Sammy Knight did have a slightly pretentious debut, but there's no doubt the character recovered from it quite nicely, and I think most will agree it's a shame his handler has to take a bit of time off at this point.

There's little doubt that babyfaces with humbler debuts are much easier to warm up to, AsH being an excellent example of this. Alex Epstein and Supreme Wright both recently held World Titles in other feds, and they didn't start out by calling out Gibson Hayes. Still, there's no reason a face that is a little more brash couldn't make an impact.

... But in Tiegs' case, the character comes accross as extremely self-important when he insists on not only being the first to call out Hayes like the first troll to post in a comment section, but also on being the one to lead the charge against his stable. That act pretty egregiously brushes aside some established candidates more suited for such a role, and it may even sabotage them to a degree.

Chris Hartt is booked to face Gibson Hayes on Heatwave, so if anyone should be calling out Gibson, it's him! Beyond Heatwave, Johnny Detson has the Called Shot, and it's just a matter of time before he cashes it in. And then there are others, like Seņor Cloak Dos, President Daniels or Sinister, who has been built as the locker room leader for a couple of cycles. Tiegs basically just bypassed the locker room leader, and a few other respected faces, in a bid to lead the war on HOPE.

With bits like "PVW, I may be new here....but at least I HAVE the heart, determination, fire, passion, and respect for this business to TAKE THE WAR TO HOPE!" Tiegs pretty much says none of the PVW faces have enough heart, determination, fire, passion or respect for the business.



I admit I sort of fail to see exactly what the long term aim of this RP was. Debuting characters don't get booked in title programs right off the bat, and it's clear in the promo itself that Tiegs fully understands this. Since that crosses out immediate feuds with Uncle Frank, HvD and Hayes... was the aim a feud against Weaver, perhaps? And what's the goal behind calling dibs on the leadership position? Undercut the character who has earned his spot as Hayes' challenger?


I don't think there was any malicious intent at all, quite frankly... just that timing and wording ended up creating something that came across as presumptuous.



Myself, I think there's a very easy fix; if Matt Tiegs gets assaulted by a heel completely unafiliated with HOPE, maybe one that breaks his back and makes him humble. Tiegs can redirect his fire and enthusiasm towards that heel for a cycle, and let everyone appreciate Tiegs for what he can bring to the table.

Tiegs seems to have a lot of fire and enthusiasm, which is a good thing. It just needs to be aimed in a more appropriate direction, perhaps one that doesn't singe his babyface peers.
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Picky
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Now let us retreat wench, for tonight, we feast on snobbery...
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Chris/Moneycrow/Flouze - that was some really good analysis.

I'll post my views on the entire RP packet in regards to ongoing PVW things soon-ish.
Have I told you how much I loathe your continued existence today?

Proud member of the Quote Pyramid Builders Union Local #317
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RedRajah
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Shocked Woona is Shocked
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*tinfoil hat*

Maybe Tiegs is Todd's secret weapon for HOPE. A so-called face that draws all the aggro from the other good guys, getting in their way and preventing them from being united...

*removes tinfoil hat*
And here's where I pretend to be a writer...
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ElSavaje
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R. Kelly
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On an unrelated note:

Quote:
 
And so a little German fellow beat the s[BLEEP!] outta me, and
his dog molestin' manager gloated about it over me as I was carted
away. And I learned somethin' that day.

I don't _ever_ wanna have that happen again.


:ninja:
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E2dB
Walter Melon
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ElSavaje,Dec 3 2011
09:41 AM
On an unrelated note:

Quote:
 
And so a little German fellow beat the s[BLEEP!] outta me, and
his dog molestin' manager gloated about it over me as I was carted
away. And I learned somethin' that day.

I don't _ever_ wanna have that happen again.


:ninja:

that little german fellow beat the bleep out of a lot of people Jones Malachor still hasn't recovered, for shame.
Parrots > owls
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Overly_Critical_Jue
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Amigo, I ain't anybody but Juan Vasquez!
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Good thing Supreme was there to protect everyone from the big bad 180 lbs German guy picking on these hosses. :spam:
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