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PVW - Heatwave 01.08.12
Topic Started: Jan 9 2012, 03:18 PM (2,047 Views)
TheotherJC
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Reducto
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Ok, so... wanted to try and add more constructive criticisms at the beginning of the year with the feelings I get from this first card of the year... (listening to the Pickycast at the same time) and see if we can move more people forward.

1. Larry Gionet - It's been said before, but make a change, become vulnerable. DO SOMETHING. You have a brilliant friggin' opportunity on your hands, especially with a returning Chase Williams... break out of your self-imposed prison. Until that happens, you're almost an instant skim for certain people.

2. Chance Holliday - The writing is pretty damn good, but the entire gimmick is already in place in the fed with Spectre. Something needs to be done to differentiate. I personally would see a crisis of faith or existential questioning of his own motives as a fantastic little angle. But again, if the character is unable to break from his mold, I see major problems.

3. Danny Daniels - The line is walked between outright absurd and quirky on a daily basis and it's SO hard to get a bead on this character. I just BEG that he picks a side and moves there permanently. My pref would be a quirky, yet more serious face... so we could see him move upward. It may just be me, but I think the writing for the char is better when he's SOMEWHAT serious.

4. The Biz - The character is, like Picky said, in need of finding legit footing here. The fed _IS_ heel heavy, but I see a cocky Biz able to go face. He had a run in Shootfire (booo!) as a face with Sammy Knight that was pretty good.

5. Sinister - Just proof your stuff. It has the ability to jump up and be the great mid-level face with room for improvement. If the character's really going to jump up, though, it needs to find a true voice. So much of the writing feels forced of what the handler feels a locker room leading Kevin Nash SHOULD sound like, not what he WANTS to sound like. Sounding stilted or fabricated holds him back... but that's just my opinion, and I've been known to be wrong more than right.

6. Berserkers - Again, SO much room for improvement here once they find their own voice. Being a Legion of Doom/Road Warriors pastiche is fine. There will always be room for that. But breaking new ground, making it real... that's going to push you guys up there. I hope to see more development.

7. Mercenary - Where's the contract he won't take? Why is the character something we should care about as something other than a plot device for OTHER characters? (X paid Merc to take out Y)... The handler knows very well how to write something damn good, but seems hesitant to pull the trigger on a new direction. The stuff with Alex Epstein was heading in that direction but just... tripped, I guess. So frustrating with this one, as there's just ...the sky's the limit, but you're busy staring at the tarmac!

Other than that, the new guys seem to be finally starting to make their own path. I like this as its getting easier and easier to see where each is going and how they're different from one another.

I will now await hatemail.
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RedRajah
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I think there was a "blink and you'll miss it" segment involving the Masked X Guy stealing Legacy's camera after they took those those photos with Rob Cole.
And here's where I pretend to be a writer...
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Codered
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RedRajah,Jan 12 2012
11:22 AM
I think there was a "blink and you'll miss it" segment involving the Masked X Guy stealing Legacy's camera after they took those those photos with Rob Cole.

Yes you are correct. I am glad you pointed it out. I missed it in my break down outline above.
PVW Website: www.pvwrestling.net
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rcole
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Okay, now here we go... I'm sick this week so it's taken me awhile to collect my thoughts. I have strep. It sucks. But my fever is down... so here we go:

1. Derek Weave and Todd Johnstone Backstage Opening Segment

Hate this. From the broken finger to the over-blown "big talk" antagonistic talk, this has basically been my near constant complaint regarding the whole HOPE angle... "there's a schism but that's okay because we can threaten each other and we're all such badass mofos... " I honestly think this segment sort of hurt both characters in the long run, but that's just my opinion.

2. PVW Brand New Opening

Eh. I don't really see the new opening as a big deal.

3. Johnny Detson & Todd Johnstone inring

This was a good segment for putting Detson over as the number one contender. It's a long long story from feds I wasn't a part of... I'm not knocking on it because of that, just that I'm not familiar with the content. I largely don't read feds I'm not a part of, as I'm sure alot of the handlers here don't either.

4. AsH & Perry Fontana backstage

Interesting piece. Not really sold on it, surprisingly... I'm actually more invested in Fontana than a lot of people seem to be. I like Fontana. I like the character, the handler has a good handle of character psychology, and I just generally like him. So this kind of just felt... there...

5. AsH v. Derek Weaver

GREAT destruction of AsH and it sets up Weaver vs. Fontana, so it makes me more inclined toward the previous segment.

6. Sinister & Spectre backstage

I'm interested in this... but I think it may have been too long.

7. Danny Daniels announcement

heh... kind of made me amused.

8. Chase Williams sitdown interview with Dean Hayes

Hrm... I liked it. I've always been a big fan of Williams, I love the handlers work with other characters and I've always loved working angles with him. I think this segment would have worked better on the flash show or on Shockwave.

9. Cow and Chicken - Lineage prematch segment

Still not a fan of Cow and Chicken... but I appreciate the hard work both handlers of both teams put into building their match and putting some drama into it. So kudos.

10. Cow and Chicken v. Lineage

solid match... but largely, I skimmed it. Sorry?

11. Rob Cole runs into Legacy backstage

I love working with Roger, and I enjoyed writing this segment with him... I think it might have worked better on Shockwave or on the flash show, but it was good. I appreciate Roger helping me put over a bit of my angle... though is Alex the mystery guy? I don't know...

12. Talion backstage segment

Liked it... I'm starting to be interested in who the man behind the mask is, but I want to know more about why he chose to wear the mask and what the design means. That's just because I'm a mask mark.

13. Danny Daniels v. The Biz

I wrote this match.

14. Supreme Wright backstage segment

The more I read Wright... the more I want him to be a heel. The more I want him to turn... not sure why, but it might just be the name. Not bad, not great, just sort of middle of the road here.

15. Seiger, Dawson, & Wright v. Quartermann, Holiday, & Freeman

Skimmed. I just wasn't all that invested.

16. Fred Hoyle advertisement

entertaining... but skimmed and not really part of the general angles.

17. Kevin Quartermann postmatch rant

I really REALLY liked this post match rant from Quartermann and would love love LOVE to work with the character at some point in the future. That's all I have to say about it... if I see a character I'd love to work with, that's usually an indication I'm going to be a pretty big fan of theirs.

18. Spectre and Senor Cloak Dos segment

I think it went a little long... but here's a well developed angle turning into a decent feud.

19. Marcus Manson v. Nevermind

Wrote this match... I liked writing it, and "Pudges" kept giving me giggles.

20. Danny Daniels and Chance Holiday segment

ehhhh... out of nowhere, really.

21. Rob Cole interview

eh... big critic of my own work. I think I finally got the "sell a concussion" idea over, that there is something seriously wrong with him on a medical level. It took a few shows... but I'm hoping I spelled it out enough that it's not really an "existential" issue as many people were at first thinking. So... there you go... on the bad side, I think I over killed it with this promo right after the loss to Gionet. I think that match did more to put over the injury related behavior than anything I did on this card.

22. Christopher Black and Erich Seiger backstage

Love Black. Nuff said.

23. Spectre v. Uncle Frank

good match, but a little too short.

24. Shattered Dreams tease

cool.

25. Chris Hartt and Christopher Black inring

Good stuff.

26. Senor Cloak Dos prematch backstage

good... but not great. I think SCD needs... mmmm... some more "pride" I think? Self confidence? Humility is good, but he needs to show some pride as well.

27. Craven & Donkerhardt v. Dos Cloak & Sinister

Decent match...

28. Craven and HvD ending

Here's the thing... this worked for Herscher. This was an amazingly well done segment for that character, built him up as a legitimate obstacle between Craven and Hayes, and it cemented his heel turn. He worked brilliantly and I was glad to see everything I was NOT seeing the past few shows for HvD... I'm usually sold on his work, but I wasn't seeing alot of stuff about HIM until this moment and it worked.

But then we have Craven... just coming off a heel run where he threatened Rob Coles family to get him in the ring, blasted the wife with a cane shot, and repeatedly attacked the man. I was glad to see him get beaten up and sell this beating... but he's a freakin' HEEL!!!! And I'm not feeling any sympathy for him at all.
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Overly_Critical_Jue
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rcole,Jan 12 2012
12:28 PM
14. Supreme Wright backstage segment

The more I read Wright... the more I want him to be a heel. The more I want him to turn... not sure why, but it might just be the name. Not bad, not great, just sort of middle of the road here.

That's easily explained(in my mind, anyhow). His actual allignment as stated on his app is "neutral". He doesn't aspire to be some sort of hero, locker room leader or to set some sort of example...just be a damn good wrestler. But he's not rotten to the core, either, so he doesn't do heelish things. Sometimes though, he'll do something a true 100% face wouldn't...like when he let Chance Holiday walk right by him to interfere in Danny Daniels' match instead of stopping the interference. He had agreed to stay out of Holiday's business, after all.



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TheotherJC
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Reducto
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rcole,Jan 12 2012
03:28 PM

1. Derek WeaveR and Todd Johnstone Backstage Opening Segment

Hate this. From the broken finger to the over-blown "big talk" antagonistic talk, this has basically been my near constant complaint regarding the whole HOPE angle... "there's a schism but that's okay because we can threaten each other and we're all such badass mofos... " I honestly think this segment sort of hurt both characters in the long run, but that's just my opinion.

Yeah, I realize that Picky and I had somewhat assumed that people generally "Got" the Weaver character up to this point. Knowing NOW that they don't and the piece would go over like a lead balloon, I probably would've switched a few things up. But I've always tried to write Weaver like a wolf/shark, any smell of blood usually leads to bad consequences.

As far as the fractured thing, I'm BEGGING people to wait for the HOPE stuff to keep going. Yeah, they're all tough Mofos (besides Gibson) and that's the point.

Just watch and wait. Hopefully the pay off is there for you.
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Codered
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TheotherJC,Jan 12 2012
04:04 PM
rcole,Jan 12 2012
03:28 PM

1. Derek WeaveR and Todd Johnstone Backstage Opening Segment

Hate this. From the broken finger to the over-blown "big talk" antagonistic talk, this has basically been my near constant complaint regarding the whole HOPE angle... "there's a schism but that's okay because we can threaten each other and we're all such badass mofos... " I honestly think this segment sort of hurt both characters in the long run, but that's just my opinion.

Yeah, I realize that Picky and I had somewhat assumed that people generally "Got" the Weaver character up to this point. Knowing NOW that they don't and the piece would go over like a lead balloon, I probably would've switched a few things up. But I've always tried to write Weaver like a wolf/shark, any smell of blood usually leads to bad consequences.

As far as the fractured thing, I'm BEGGING people to wait for the HOPE stuff to keep going. Yeah, they're all tough Mofos (besides Gibson) and that's the point.

Just watch and wait. Hopefully the pay off is there for you.

Gibson is tough ... just ask him!
PVW Website: www.pvwrestling.net
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Pickyatwork
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Don't care what folks think. Heck, 99% of the fed doesn't know what's coming up so it'll all make sense in the end.
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Overly_Critical_Jue
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Don't fall into the trap of having it make too much sense or else we won't have anything to complain about. :boxing:
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RedRajah
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Overly_Critical_Jue,Jan 12 2012
05:26 PM
Don't fall into the trap of having it make too much sense or else we won't have anything to complain about. :boxing:

Never underestimate the power of people finding something to bitch about!

(just ask Chip's wife)
And here's where I pretend to be a writer...
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rcole
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Yeah, I don't shut the door or count people out entirely due to one promo or match or anything, so don't consider it my mind made up on anything. I just don't know enough about Weaver to really "get" a lot of the stuff he's talking about. He mostly comes off as a face stuck in the middle of a group of heels, which may be the way he's designed but it's just not selling well for me personally. There may be a big pay off moment coming where this all turns out to be a brilliantly constructed long term plan, which I would love to see... but for right now, it just didn't seem to mesh well for my own tastes.

But I'm also the handler of Rob Cole, and I'm infamous for going into non-sensical long term storylines that involve a lot of build up that either falls flat or manages to somehow make a lot of sense to many people. I consider it a challenge when someone says, "that angle will never work!" So I work for it...

Feud with the fans. Feud with myself. Buried Alive. Using a hidden spike that I keep hiding from the referee in various ways to bleed my opponent dry and get that old school "Bled out" ending from Lawler / Von Erich from the 80's. Yep... I go there on little more than a dare.
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TheotherJC
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Reducto
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Sorry, didn't actually mean to make people think that I was all that distraught about it. Just kinda stuck in a weird place for the character that I actually have to blaze a new trail, because his previous trail was too much like Spectre-Classic and New-Spectre.

Plus, I _DO_ try to make something universally acceptable. Though in retro, that usually ends up bland and shit.
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Mozeart
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Sheik-ee, Sheik-ee, give me your answer do...
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rcole,Jan 12 2012
03:28 PM
But then we have Craven... just coming off a heel run where he threatened Rob Coles family to get him in the ring, blasted the wife with a cane shot, and repeatedly attacked the man. I was glad to see him get beaten up and sell this beating... but he's a freakin' HEEL!!!! And I'm not feeling any sympathy for him at all.

Yyyeah, I know I sound like a broken record but it wasn't my idea! And Bill sold a LOT more before I did some heavy rewriting. My ending got scrapped and, incidentally, it involved Bill tormenting HvD and out-heeling HOPE.

I rolled with it. I just do what the bookers tell me to do. What can I say?

Edit: Y'know I missed the word "glad". That's why I said what I said.
And it was at this moment that the entire world realized, in unison, that tandem bicycles were AWESOME~!
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Overly_Critical_Jue
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HvD's wife should've got to get a few hits in on Craven.
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Pickyatwork
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Mozeart,Jan 12 2012
05:57 PM
rcole,Jan 12 2012
03:28 PM
But then we have Craven... just coming off a heel run where he threatened Rob Coles family to get him in the ring, blasted the wife with a cane shot, and repeatedly attacked the man. I was glad to see him get beaten up and sell this beating... but he's a freakin' HEEL!!!! And I'm not feeling any sympathy for him at all.

Yyyeah, I know I sound like a broken record but it wasn't my idea! And Bill sold a LOT more before I did some heavy rewriting. My ending got scrapped and, incidentally, it involved Bill tormenting HvD and out-heeling HOPE.

I rolled with it. I just do what the bookers tell me to do. What can I say?

And it was better for it. Bill isn't smart and he's boring unless he shows some vulnerability. The rewrite wasn't that heavy, as I helped write the initial part (mainly edited).
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