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PVW - Heatwave 1.30.12
Topic Started: Jan 30 2012, 04:26 PM (2,393 Views)
Overly_Critical_Jue
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Amigo, I ain't anybody but Juan Vasquez!
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I always knew Jason Keening didn't have any balls!
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DCGMoo
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E2dBatwork,Feb 3 2012
11:45 AM
With the old way WWO use to do there alignments I'd still list Detson as selfish, which would fall on the heel side of things.

Does anyone have a copy of the breakdown of the old WWO alignments? I know it was based off another game, but the way they were broken down made more sense in the modern wrestling environment than the generic face/heel/tweener labels.

I mean, let's be honest... Detson, Hayes, Craven and Frank are all technically heels, but they are NOTHING alike. Not in their beliefs, or their actions, or the methods, or in any way whatsoever. Clumping them all into the standard "heel" category isn't fair to any of them.

I don't necessarily suggest PVW goes to using those alignments, but I think they were valuable in discussions like this for defining where a character stands. I always hated the black and white "face vs heel" battle... it worked great in the 80s when the Cold War was ongoing and everyone was looking for heroes... but it just doesn't apply to the modern world where almost everything falls into a shade of grey.
Working on new characters you didn't see a decade ago. Honest.
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Codered
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E2dBatwork,Feb 3 2012
11:45 AM
rcole,Feb 2 2012
09:53 PM
@E2dB:

I thought that's what Detson was going for at first. It's just that with Hayes selling him like a top face, with him turning down the offer from the lawyer, it looks more like the "Bad Ass Face".... not every face is a Baby, though that seems to be the only recognizable Face to Picky. Some faces have an attitude, some of them dismiss the cheers of the fans (which makes the fans cheer even louder), and some even do outlandish things and still get cheered.

Road Warriors never acted like faces, but they were. There are so many more examples of it... heck, Freddie Blassie became the most over Face in the San Fran territory even though he used weapons, gouged eyes, choked, and used every dirty tactic in the book... because was also a fighter!

People cheer a fighter. They boo someone who takes the easy road, who lies, who blatantly cheats, and someone who treats weaker people badly. They will cheer someone who takes a stand... even if it's generally for selfish reasons, the people still cheer that person. They're a "hero". They don't have to pause for pictures or talk about respect at every turn. You may not see your character as a traditional "Face" but that's what he's turned into.

Valid points, I guess I just see it differently.

Maybe its just as simple as I have it in my head going one way and its turning into something else its happened before.

Maybe I'm naive, but I don't considered him a face. Now could he be a face? Maybe, like you said never a baby face but a face nonetheless. But I don't think his alignment would ever be determined until after this cycle win or lose. What he does after this, would probably determine if he's face or heel.

With the old way WWO use to do there alignments I'd still list Detson as selfish, which would fall on the heel side of things.

In every feud there is a face or heel. Even if there are two faces working against each other or two heels. Someone has to play the part.

If we are to pretend the fans cheer Detson against Hayes then he is the face of the feud. Of course he could feud Senor Cloak Dos or Chris Hartt or name any baby face the next cycle and get boo's putting him on the heel side.

I agree that right now some of the lines are a little blurry. A lot of that is my fault since this was the Rumble cycle I have allowed it to get that way.

I think next cycle things will get a bit more clear on the face/heel structure. I hope anyways.
PVW Website: www.pvwrestling.net
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El Dandy
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Is the She of the fight!
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Overly_Critical_Jue,Feb 3 2012
12:00 PM
I always knew Jason Keening didn't have any balls!

:diespam:
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E2dBatwork
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Pretty sure it could be updated to PVW wrestlers....


"Face" Alignments


Principled


A principled character lives by a strict code of ethics. There is a
definate right and wrong in the world for this type of character, and
they attempt to right those wrongs. There are certain lines that cannot
be crossed though, and these sorts of wrestlers will do all that they
can within the rules to bring wrong do'ers to justice. A principled
character is the "ultimate" face.


Example: Fang //// PVW = Senor Dos Cloak


Scrupulous


People of this nature know right and wrong, and believe that those in
the wrong should be brought to justice... but if the rules are
preventing this, they will bend the rules so that justice can be served.
The adage of fight fire with fire can be brought to light with this sort
of character.


Example: Apex //// PVW = Max and Sal


"Neutral" Alignments


Unprincipled


The unprincipled wrestler understands that there are rights and wrongs in
the wrestling world. However, as long as they can stretch a "few" of
those rules, and don't get caught, they're still okay. As long as the
damage done isn't devastating, and the repercussions don't have a
long-term negative effect. An unprincipled character will be a nearly
"facish" character, as he knows the rules, and will tend to abide within
them, with only the occasional 'line crossing'.


Example: "(NAME DELETED TO PRESERVE POSTERS SANITY), Thunderstorm

PVW = Perry Fontana


Taoist


Whatever is fun or enjoyable is what is right. A person of this sort
seeks out what they like and strives for that above other things. It
doesn't matter where something came from or how they got it, as long as
they can have fun using it. If someone doesn't understand the humour of a
situation, they're missing out on the purpose of the whole thing. Insults
and "fun scenes" are more important to a Taoist than an assault or sneak
attack on an opponent.


Example: Tyrone "Purple" Hayes

PVW = Danny Daniels


Anarchist


To the anarchist style of wrestler, the social norms are simply roadblocks
to allowing someone to be their best. The anarchist wrestler may or may
not be a "me, me, me" type of person, as they may or may not care about
their own best interests, as long as they're allowed to push the
boundaries of standards and practices.


Example: Roundhouse //// PVW = Nevermind and/or Frank Knight






Selfish


Much like an unprincipled person, only one who works within a system, and
as long as the system benefits the selfish wrestler. These people are
usually quite aware that their actions can cause misery, but it doesn't
bother them. The rules apply only when they are are beneficial. When the
laws in place begin to become a burden, they are discarded. The only thing
that matters is how things can best serve the person, not the other way
around.


Example: "White Hot" Darren Morgan PVW = Johnny Detson


"Heel" Alignments


Aberrant


Honor among theives. People of this nature have a code of ethics that
governs their lives. They abide by this code, and usually the actual
"law". Above what the accepted social norms are. They will not break their
code, and have honor. That's not to say they won't cheat and use
shortcuts. On the contrary, the nature of the sport clearly allows it,
and they know it.


Example: "Mr. Ratings" Warren Hayes //// PVW = Adrian Freeman


Miscreant


A person of this sort is someone who causes grief for kicks. Someone who
seems to enjoy making life miserable for other people. They do have some
lines that they won't cross... but not many. Most "heelish" e-wrestlers
would probably fall in this category if they are true heels.


Example: Tracy Hudson, The Outlaws /// PVW = HvD Derek Weaver

Diabolic


Those few that fall into this catagory are evil, plain and simple. There
is no level to which these people will go to achieve their goal.
Backstabbing, trickery, or whatever else is necessary to get what they
want are tasks done without guilt. And it may not be for any natural
goal. The opportunity is there, hurt your opponent, and maim him/her
intentionally.


Example: Latex Lex, Fury /// PVW = Christopher Black
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orklad
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I dunno...I think that having these alignments might make life a bit easier insofar as PVW goes.

It would certainly help clear up some match writing stuff with crowd reactions.
Orklad

or

Don, Lord of Pudding
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RedRajah
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Quote:
 
Diabolic


Those few that fall into this catagory are evil, plain and simple. There
is no level to which these people will go to achieve their goal.
Backstabbing, trickery, or whatever else is necessary to get what they
want are tasks done without guilt. And it may not be for any natural
goal. The opportunity is there, hurt your opponent, and maim him/her
intentionally.


Example: Latex Lex, Fury /// PVW = Christopher Black


:wub:
And here's where I pretend to be a writer...
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SteinarB
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Aaaw. Poor Christopher Black. He's just misunderstood. I'm sure he's not as evil as you all seem to think.

In fact, I'm certain he's actually much, MUCH worse. He's just been lulling us all into a false sense of security so far. :)
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orklad
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Spectre is just sad that he didn't make the list.

Poor guy.
Orklad

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Don, Lord of Pudding
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Codered
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orklad,Feb 3 2012
12:57 PM
Spectre is just sad that he didn't make the list.

Poor guy.

Principled!
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E2dBatwork
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Some of the people Stone listed on here are mind numbing, I tried for that same agrivating effect.

Create your own list time!!!
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JeremySAtWork
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Quote:
 

Principled


A principled character lives by a strict code of ethics. There is a
definate right and wrong in the world for this type of character, and
they attempt to right those wrongs. There are certain lines that cannot
be crossed though, and these sorts of wrestlers will do all that they
can within the rules to bring wrong do'ers to justice. A principled
character is the "ultimate" face.


Example: Fang


This strict code of ethics is a hallmark of the Ninth Street Spiders! :deadhorse:


I couldn't resist.

Quartermann is Unprincipled. Formerly Selfish.
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DCGMoo
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Codered,Feb 3 2012
12:14 PM
In every feud there is a face or heel. Even if there are two faces working against each other or two heels. Someone has to play the part.

If we are to pretend the fans cheer Detson against Hayes then he is the face of the feud. Of course he could feud Senor Cloak Dos or Chris Hartt or name any baby face the next cycle and get boo's putting him on the heel side.

I agree that right now some of the lines are a little blurry. A lot of that is my fault since this was the Rumble cycle I have allowed it to get that way.

I think next cycle things will get a bit more clear on the face/heel structure. I hope anyways.

See, I don't entirely agree with this.

I do agree that in every feud, there will be a character who is more popular with the fans. There will always be a guy the fans pick as their guy to boo. You have to have a favorite in a match to keep the crowd going.

I don't, however, think that necessarily means a character has to be a "face". The Detson/Hayes thing is a good example, Detson is not a face in this role. Yes, he is "more" of a face than Hayes is... but as you said, change the opponent and Detson is back to being a heel. I don't think that makes Detson a face, and I think suggesting it does takes us down the WWE road of constantly flipping people so that we always have black and white battlelines. Will Detson really still be as strong a heel after the Hayes war if we start treating him like a face now?

Look at Spectre right now. Is he a face? He opposes HOPE, so by that rationale he should be. He's also feuding with SCD/Sin, which makes him a heel. So do we flip his character based on who he's in the ring with? Or do we define the character as what he is, recognizing that some fans will cheer him while the majority boo him? Does that mean he's a tweener? Or is he just a heel who opposes more diabolical heels if they threaten his own personal world?

Spectre is a classic Aberrant in the WWO structure. He believes what he believes. He has a code he lives by. That doesn't mean he's not a heel... it just means he's not quite as much of a heel as Hayes is. I don't think that means he should have to be a face if he hypothetically feuded with Hayes though... he still needs to be a heel, he's just less of a heel than HOPE is. If that means he gets cheered during a match with HOPE members, so be it... but I don't think we should define him or Detson as a face because the fans decide they dislike HOPE more than they dislike HOPE's opponents.

This was one thing ECW did far better than NWA/WCW/WWE. If you had a heel Taz feud with a heel Sabu, it didn't mean either guy had to be a face. The fans still enjoyed two heels beating the crap out of each other. Before the match and after the match, both guys were still heels. It didn't weaken either guy's status. Obviously, the majority of feuds were face vs heel, and you have to keep that element... but I don't think EVERY feud has to follow that formula. Just because I sympathize with Detson's quest does mean I think he's suddenly become a better person because of it... he's still a heel, he's just a motivated heel.

I think things are going fine in this department actually Brian, I wouldn't stress too hard about "defining" the lines that much. Let them naturally develop, let the readers make their own opinions, and focus on building up true faces for the next wave rather than turning alignments on established characters so they fit the role.

[Chucks in a couple of pennies.]
Working on new characters you didn't see a decade ago. Honest.
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Picky
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Now let us retreat wench, for tonight, we feast on snobbery...
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Codered
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I think we are saying the same thing just saying it two different ways. I don't mean they are _Official_ faces or heels. But they "play" that role ... as long as the fans are concerned they are the one to cheer or boo so they inherit the face and heel role.

Wrestling in the fans eyes is quite simple ... Sometimes we make it more complicated then it has to be. :)
PVW Website: www.pvwrestling.net
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