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| PVW - Showcase 02.09.12 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 9 2012, 01:36 PM (1,049 Views) | |
| Picky | Feb 10 2012, 03:44 AM Post #16 |
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Now let us retreat wench, for tonight, we feast on snobbery...
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If you're not supposed to cheer Cole he's not even a hard face. The audience cheers regardless and if you're not supposed to cheer Cole why should you care about his redemption? If he's irredeemable and unable to be used when redemption hits doesn't that mean there's no point and, unlike Nevermind, it's really just selfishness that drives Cole in that he wants something but doesn't truly seek it. |
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Have I told you how much I loathe your continued existence today? Proud member of the Quote Pyramid Builders Union Local #317 | |
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| rcole | Feb 10 2012, 04:09 AM Post #17 |
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Dr. Weird
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I didn't say he was irredeemable, I said that redemption is always a step away. And why should I be trying to get people to cheer Cole when he's being attacked by someone that HE put through a wheel chair? It's called story-telling, Picky. Small scenes and moments build in order to create an over arcing narrative. I don't write little one-liner "suck it" promos... and sometimes I write things that won't really make sense until a later date or until a moment in a match where I've written for something to happen for a very specific reason. Now, just because Brian Young was revealed as the mystery man doesn't mean the "build up" regarding this angle is done... the story was never supposed to be about a mystery, it was about the characters and how events in their lives have brought them into conflict. But for your other question: Why should anyone care about redemption? An interesting question... I've never really considered the "why?" aspect of it, but I guess it's something we all want to achieve in our lives. Nobody is perfect, everyone lives with a small form of guilt, and our society tends to find stories of redemption to be compelling. From Xena to Darth Vader, Riddick, Deadpool, Popeye Doyle, villains seeking to right their own wrongs and cleanse themselves maybe gives us a sense of hope. I don't get the same thrill watching a "hero" just stand up to the villains. I hated Superman growing up... he was a boy scout, he was perfect, he wasn't fallible, and nothing was ever a challenge. Heroes are fun for a certain time, but it's the ones who aren't perfect that have always managed to catch my imagination. I liked Han Solo a whole hell lot more than I ever liked Luke. I've never tried to promote my character as Superman. Rob Cole is considered a "face" because he fights bad guys. It's not a hard gimmick to understand, it's a fairly classic example of the brawler/face, and I'm entertaining myself with the story. And I try to do things that other people either don't or won't do. |
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| Codered | Feb 10 2012, 08:14 AM Post #18 |
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The Luther Burger
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I see Cole as a sympathetic face for the fans. You can see his battles with right and wrong unfold and you root for him to find peace and happiness. After all what the majority of the normal wrestling fan does is always different from the e-wrestling, wrestling fan. Add in the fact he usually stands up against some of the biggest bad guys that get auto jeers no matter what. IE - Spectre, Chase Williams, William Craven, Rick Marley ... This time however ... a returning fan favorite, Brian Young returned. I thought this RP packet set the tone. Brian Young gave the finger to the fans and went full blown heel. The normal Pro Wrestling fan has a short memory. If you don't think so then just think back to Y2J's 500,000 turns. He is cheered then boo'd then cheered then boo'd. I think it works ... You can see a human side to Rob Cole. Root for the guy to find what he is looking for and at the same time root for him to give the heel hell. |
| PVW Website: www.pvwrestling.net | |
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| El Dandy | Feb 10 2012, 08:33 AM Post #19 |
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Is the She of the fight!
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We need a Bell and Rob review of Showcase! |
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| Codered | Feb 10 2012, 08:39 AM Post #20 |
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The Luther Burger
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Maybe ... but, not until quite a few more handlers do ... not just JC! |
| PVW Website: www.pvwrestling.net | |
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| RedRajah | Feb 10 2012, 08:45 AM Post #21 |
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Shocked Woona is Shocked
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Rosa exists! |
| And here's where I pretend to be a writer... | |
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| Picky | Feb 10 2012, 02:54 PM Post #22 |
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Now let us retreat wench, for tonight, we feast on snobbery...
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Why must you always resort to condescension you're trying to explain something? That isn't a very good trait. I don't find the classic, aw shucks babyface all that interesting. Senor Cloak Dos is rather miss with me but let's take someone I'm vocal about not liking - Perry Fontana. Flouze has done the hard face much better than Cole's whole arch but that's because we're going to see a pay off - Fontana, for better or worse or what ever idea has been put in his head, will be fighting to redeem himself and allow the fictional fans to cheer for him - something that is lacking with Cole. The misconstruing of the why question brings up the point whether or not you read what was written before you were coming up with your rebuttal, Mark. I'm asking why people should care about Cole's whole overarching redemption when it's clear you're not interested in seeing the thing through - there's no payoff. The end is just as important as journey and if you are discounting it then maybe you should really look at why you're going on the trip. And brawler/face is your excuse to do the ridiculous. You can brawl just fine without extraneous things like buried alive matches, ludicrous familial angles and other Wrestlecrap Cole tends to indulge in frequently. I'd like to see one Cole angle where it didn't devolve into attacks outside the ring or specialty match stipulations to see something different from the character. |
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Have I told you how much I loathe your continued existence today? Proud member of the Quote Pyramid Builders Union Local #317 | |
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| Overly_Critical_Jue | Feb 10 2012, 03:00 PM Post #23 |
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Amigo, I ain't anybody but Juan Vasquez!
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That's why the waning libido storyline would've been so great. |
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| CobiWann | Feb 10 2012, 03:36 PM Post #24 |
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The Drunken Icon
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Vince Russo already did a "Bottle of Viagra" on a pole match. |
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| TheotherJC | Feb 10 2012, 03:52 PM Post #25 |
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Reducto
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Didn't the pole grow the more people tried to climb it? |
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| rcole | Feb 10 2012, 04:49 PM Post #26 |
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Dr. Weird
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To answer your points specifically, Picky: Condescension: It's not meant to be that, but rather a simplistic and detailed explanation in order to perhaps shed some light on something you obviously do not understand. You've never understood. And you continue to never understand. Why should people care? That was explained in the over-all explanation regarding a "redemption" storyline so let me try to explain it like this: The one person who really doesn't see Cole as a "hero" is Cole himself... if you maybe actually read the promos instead of skimming them, if you paid attention to the over all storyline, you might actually understand the gimmick a little instead of relating it to "wrestlecrap"... why the family connection? To show him a reflection of himself that he doesn't see, to give HIM hope. Why the gimmick matches? Because he's trapped by his own reputation. Why the backstage attacks.... uhm, not sure if you're aware of this but the last time Cole attacked anyone was before the PVW went on hiatus and I haven't had him attack anyone since that time. I even went about meticulously avoiding an attack on Craven throughout that entire feud. I went about specifically writing match psychology that would avoid the use of weapons and hardcore wrestling for that specific storyline right up until the very end. I even stratted to avoid the barbed wire and sell the damaging effects of it... now, the psychology kind of got thrown out the window by the writer but some things are out of my hands. You're wanting to see something different from the character? Well, I guess I could go BACK to attacking people at random, using violence in my matches, and doing the whole "weapon" thing but I'm kind of enjoying the angle I'm in right now. The fact that you haven't caught up on it, and that you may not be the only one, kind of amuses me... but it also leaves me scratching my head because I've been doing precisely what you just now suggested. I've been doing it for the better part of a year. Maybe instead of skimming the matches and the promos you could actually try to pay attention to what is actually being said instead of assuming you understand the direction. |
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| TheotherJC | Feb 10 2012, 06:06 PM Post #27 |
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Reducto
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Good reviews everyone! Great effort--- wait, just me. |
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| Pickyatwork | Feb 10 2012, 06:19 PM Post #28 |
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Unregistered
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See, there's the condescending attitude, again. This strikes me as old music forum stuff with: "obviously you don't get it". I don't - I don't get why I should care one whit or why Cole is anything but a character that takes things from ok to terrible ideas that belong more on day time television. If someone's work doesn't catch me and what stands out is the history of ludicrous events, expecting me to stay along for the ride is a major assumption. I'm trying to figure out why I should give Cole another chance but it is painfully obvious you haven't the slightest reason why I should. |
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| Codered | Feb 10 2012, 09:06 PM Post #29 |
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The Luther Burger
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x2 Let's hear about Showcase. |
| PVW Website: www.pvwrestling.net | |
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| rcole | Feb 10 2012, 10:28 PM Post #30 |
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Dr. Weird
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And with this busy little packet, we have a bunch of things to get through… so here we go! -> Rob Cole #1 I wrote this. I’m normally fairly hard on myself, but I think I managed to pull this one off and show the continued sharp decline of Coles’ mental state… but it’s really going to take more than a promo to tell the story. -> The Biz No idea where the Biz is going with this… there are a few directions and I kind of like not knowing. Predictability gets boring sometimes, and the sense that we don’t really know which direction the Biz will be going is kind of fun… is he genuinely having identity issues or is he gaming the fed? Enjoying this turn of events for him. -> Spectre I’m normally way into the Spectre’s promos and I love the storyline with SCD, but this promo felt a little rote. He touched all the right points, but some of the passion seemed to be missing. Not sure what I was expecting, and it’s still great stuff, but something felt off it’s normal beat. -> The Mercenary FANTASTIC!!! I’m normally not the biggest Mercenary fan but he nailed this one and he nailed the earlier promo about going after the rookies. -> Legacy I enjoy Legacy. This promo was nice and it showed what Wallace brought to the table, it also showed the characters’ naïveté and that they really do need guidance. -> Talion, Quartermann, & Daniels I don’t know. I kind of liked it, but it was kind of jumbled and stitched together. Quartermann did a great job of selling the match and trying to be the glue that pulled the team together, so it works. -> Marcus Manson I liked it. Promoted the angle and where Mansons’ head is and… well… it was good. I just wish it had something more, but I’m not sure what it is. The problem with doing great promos a lot is that my expectations tend to rise, I think… that’s the case here. -> SHOWCASE SPECIAL: Legacy vs. The Rocksteady Boyz Comedy bit involving the HEAT invitational… or something… not really my cup of tea, though I think the sold the Legacy win fairly well. -> Erich Seiger Like the training and the comments. Solid stuff… I’m digging on Seiger as of late. -> Tracy Hudson Comes off strong, focused, and I dug it. -> Uncle Frank I’m not big into comedy, but this made me laugh. I also thought it did a decent job of promoting who Frank was in relation to HOPE and it built his feud with Manson nicely. -> Whisper Interesting… intrigued. Watching. Reading. Waiting. -> Adrian Freeman BOOM!!! This one got nailed out of the park. Traditionalist railing against the gimmick, but taking advantage to gain a bit of glory. I love it. Good work! -> Heath Dawson & Supreme Wright Driving… driving… eh, I’m not complaining. Didn’t blow me out of the water, but nothing negative really. It was what it was. -> William Craven Intrigued but this was a really long read… and I may be the only one, but I always just want to see Tyler Holbridge broken in half. Something about that character just grates on my nerves to no end. Was hoping to see it go somewhere, but it just sort of fell flat... and right before Tradition, this isn't a good thing. -> Christopher Black Black is so good at being bad… and this promo is just pure dwarven chain mail. Fantastic. -> Sons of Anarchy Heh. They have cockney accents… that’s really all that runs through my head during this promo. -> Gold Rush An interesting approach, being interviewed by a radio podcast type show… kind of cool. -> Herscher von Donkerhardt I love how a lot of the entrants are angry with the stipulations for this match, complaining that it’s not a “real” wrestling match… HvD does a great job of selling that his title is at risk in this match, and that the winner won’t have the privilege of having beaten him in a clean pinfall. I think it works very well. -> The Heat Trash talking… okay? No complaints, just not exactly my cup of tea. With HEAT kind of busy with the whole invitational thing it sort of prevents them from working with and even helping to put over other teams… so they pretty much got stuck with trash talking and burying. No real story here. -> Johnny Detson I loved this promo. I honestly think this promo should have been the end-cap to the entire showcase. First, we see the character himself… we see his mental state, his understanding of the situation, and he addresses his estimated opponent for Shattered Dreams. That’s where the doubt lies… because he reminds Hayes that his chance at the title is guaranteed, that he earned it already and he will be at Shattered Dreams. Hayes is not so much guaranteed… so there’s this edge to the promo that Hayes himself IS an afterthought. But then he does the most important thing… he promotes the title. He promotes what it means to be the champion, what it means to fight for the title, and he talks about earning that opportunity. Detson put over the World Title and THAT makes me interested… -> Max and Sal Not a promo I was especially enamored with, but it was okay. -> Danny Daniels & Chance Holiday Huh? Okay… ? Not into this, sorry. -> Rob Cole #2 My own promo… but it’s actually more of a transition piece than a real serious attempt at a promo. It’s mere existence is actually supposed to the desperate grab for relevance that Cole is fairly certain he’s already lost. But it transitions well into the on-card so … -> Perry Fontana My favorite writer at the moment and by far my favorite character. Love this bit. Love where it goes, love how it shows he still has an edge, and I love how it ends up. -> Livestock and The Gutch Slice of life… good break from the ring. -> Chris Hartt I love the focus on “Seven”… he uses it to build hype for the show, he uses it to build his character, and then he promotes that American Title and uses that title to promote the feud with him and Black. He wants to lure Black in… and the two of them are circling one another, biting at the bit… but there’s such a quiet intensity about this feud that I’m enthralled. -> Uncle Frank & Lineage Wasn't into this one as much. -> Heath Dawson Nice build up between him and Marshall and Merc. -> Talion Interesting. I like the build up and now I do want to know what’s under the mask… hiding there… I’m probably not familiar with the character though. But it’s still interesting. -> Nevermind Holy moly!!! This promo KILLS!!! This is great stuff! -> Derek Weaver Solid build up and I like how he “turns heroes into victims”… good line. -> Brian Young I like the reference to Cole using him like a prop. Great dig… and great heel build-up. -> Senor Cloak Dos Loved it! -> SHOW CASE SPECIAL: Lineage vs. Made in America Squash I don't get the HEAT challenges taking place on Showcase... guess it's a good opportunity for some manager stuff to take place, but not really sold on this being a good way to build any of the teams. -> Supreme Wright Standard, but nothing exceptionally bad or good. -> Gibson Hayes Did we just step into a time warp? I know that Picky recently explained that the angle is Heel vs. heel, but didn’t we already get the manager making a similar offer to Detson? This felt like a step backwards from where the story is supposed to be. Honestly kind of surprised about it, but I guess promoting a contract signing is never a glorious task. And then talking about how he didn’t need to be the “best wrestler” and that he uses the rules… huh?!?!! That may be what the character does, but is he really going to come right out and say he’s not the best? And offering to for Detson to help his little stable protect the title… I guess this is good “coward heel” stuff, but it just felt like a step backwards in the general storyline. |
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