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JC stars as Flouze Reviouze PVW Heatwave 06-21-12; The reviled podcast
Topic Started: Jun 22 2012, 05:55 PM (1,331 Views)
Flouzemaker
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Part one is here:
Flouze & JC Review Heatwave Pt. 1
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Overly_Critical_Jue
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Amigo, I ain't anybody but Juan Vasquez!
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FLAKE
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JeremyS
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Dead on with the notion that Roddy Piper was used as a starting point for Quartermann. He's not an Expy, you expressed it perfectly.

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Flouzemaker
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JeremyS,Jun 22 2012
08:34 PM
Dead on with the notion that Roddy Piper was used as a starting point for Quartermann. He's not an Expy, you expressed it perfectly.

What I wanted to say was that Piper was great with off the cuff witty comebacks, while Quartermann is turning out to be more of a deliberate guy. But yeah. No sounding like Piper as much is not meant as a slam of any kind.



Meanwhile...
Here's the Concluding Part 2, brought to you by super shitty sound quality thanks to Jim's cell phone.




As we recorded all this before either of us were truly prepared (it's painfully obvious in my case at times)... and that I should obviously not do podcasts off the cuff and sans notes of any kind...

I might have to eventually make a written "companion review" because of all the inaccuracies and omissions.
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JeremyS
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As to why Spectre looked so dominating... he's PVW's Undertaker, basically. He's the monster heel of the fed. He's SUPPOSED to be hard to beat.

And the point of that was to show how overwhelming the HOPE advantage is, because even Spectre couldn't overcome it. And Detson has to do that twice... so I don't think there's any danger of this match causing Detson any damage; he's a different type of threat in the first place, being far more cerebral than Spectre.
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Picky
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So who's what analogue in terms of real wrestler to PVW character?
Have I told you how much I loathe your continued existence today?

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Berger
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Flouzemaker,Jun 22 2012
06:55 PM

I scratched my head at the criticism of Manson not selling in the Manson/Frank segment, and then had to go re-read it. I What i sent in ended here:

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[Frank has the brick, and begins smashing Manson in the face with it! Security swarms the ring and pulls Uncle Frank off of Manson. Frank is gnashing his teeth together. He loses hold of the brick and it falls to the mat as the camera catches sight of Marcus Manson rolling onto his side on the mat, blood pouring from his face as the trainers get to him.]


The bits after that were added in, presumably by Rob. So don't blame me for Manson no-selling ;) When writing this, I was actually trying to even out the very valid past criticism that he hadn't been doing his share of the selling in the feud with Frank.

EDIT: A thought occured to me - perhaps it was added in so that it made more logical sense that Manson particiapted in the battle royal later in the night.
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Flouzemaker
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Quote:
 
As to why Spectre looked so dominating... he's PVW's Undertaker, basically. He's the monster heel of the fed. He's SUPPOSED to be hard to beat.

And the point of that was to show how overwhelming the HOPE advantage is, because even Spectre couldn't overcome it. And Detson has to do that twice... so I don't think there's any danger of this match causing Detson any damage; he's a different type of threat in the first place, being far more cerebral than Spectre.


I admit I never saw Spectre as something close to Undertaker, and more like... Raven, maybe; reckless, extreme, looking to push his opponents to their very limit, but I didn't clue in that he was 'Taker tough to beat. Does make sense. Though I really thought PVW's Undertaker type was Craven.
Considering the PPV match is indeed a best of 3 falls match, I do agree that the eventual loser is well protected, no issue there.
That's what happens when you go ahead and record off the cuff and unprepared, haha!

That said, I still think Spectre came off very babyface-ish... by default, but still. People root for badasses, and Spectre looked like an epic badass for sure. I figure the average fan's reasoning would be "that guy was kind of creepy and evil, but I bet he could totally kick Gibson's ass!"
Spectre'll have to do something real scummy soon, heheheh!


Quote:
 
The bits after that were added in, presumably by Rob. So don't blame me for Manson no-selling  When writing this, I was actually trying to even out the very valid past criticism that he hadn't been doing his share of the selling in the feud with Frank.

EDIT: A thought occured to me - perhaps it was added in so that it made more logical sense that Manson particiapted in the battle royal later in the night.


I did get that the final intent of the segment would be that this would be an inning where Uncle Frank scores a run or two.
Had we had a min-rumble with commentary, I could have easily imagine Chip and Fred speculate as to how the events at the beginning of the show affect Manson's performance and whether he should be wrestling at all or not.

Now that I think of it... People punching Manson in the nose during that match would have been strong spots, and it would have very nicely echoed what had happened to Uncle Frank with everyone taking their shots at his broken nose in that... um, I don't exactly remember when because it was too long ago, but I remember great stuff with selling Frank's broken nose over a good period of time, including the big ladder match at Tradition.
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JeremyS
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Flouzemaker,Jun 23 2012
01:29 AM

I admit I never saw Spectre as something close to Undertaker, and more like... Raven, maybe; reckless, extreme, looking to push his opponents to their very limit, but I didn't clue in that he was 'Taker tough to beat.  Does make sense.  Though I really thought PVW's Undertaker type was Craven.
Considering the PPV match is indeed a best of 3 falls match, I do agree that the eventual loser is well protected, no issue there.
That's what happens when you go ahead and record off the cuff and unprepared, haha!

That said, I still think Spectre came off very babyface-ish... by default, but still.  People root for badasses, and Spectre looked like an epic badass for sure.  I figure the average fan's reasoning would be "that guy was kind of creepy and evil, but I bet he could totally kick Gibson's ass!"
Spectre'll have to do something real scummy soon, heheheh!

No need to qualify about being "off the cuff"; your viewpoints are as valid as anyone else's. I'm just stating mine, too.

As for Spectre looking like a face? That happens in heel vs heel matches a lot of the time. Since Spectre's angle involves him trying to prove that his way is the right way to eliminate HOPE, and the angle pretty much requires that he fail at that, he necessarily will look relatively sympathetic (relative to Gibson, anyway) at times. The match doesn't exist in a vaccuum, so he (and Dro) can use these events to further their angle along.
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therpa
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Berger,Jun 22 2012
11:47 PM


The bits after that were added in, presumably by Rob. So don't blame me for Manson no-selling ;) When writing this, I was actually trying to even out the very valid past criticism that he hadn't been doing his share of the selling in the feud with Frank.


Yep blame me for that editing. I didn't mean to make it look like he was no-selling I just needed to have him still look like he would be able to go in the battle royal.

And I agree with Flouze's comments if it was a fully written battle royal I would have been able to sell it better. Heck it was a fully written match it would have been better to begin with. But I made a sacrifice to get us rolling.

And for all I know that comment could have been in the podcast but I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet, hoping to today.
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Tracy
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For some reason, I keep picturing Jim Ross calling play by play for the Manson/Frank blowoff and just yelling "RHINOPLASTY!" over and over again...
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ProfessorDoran
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Listened to Part 1. Well done on all parts. And I myself would like to believe that Craven switching to Major Damage is not to no sell HvD, but rather is leading to the big crack that Picky talked about. The mystery of Craven is coming to a head, I think.
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Pickyexplainsitall
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Tracy wrote the SCD - Weaver match and I wrote the commentary. I would say writing match commentary for an already completed match was an interesting endeavor due to actually having to read a full match.
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Tracy
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Pickyexplainsitall,Jun 23 2012
01:36 PM
Tracy wrote the SCD - Weaver match and I wrote the commentary. I would say writing match commentary for an already completed match was an interesting endeavor due to actually having to read a full match.

Yep. I couldn't finish the match in it's entirety, so I did the action bits, while Picky wrote the commentary.

Glad you both liked the match itself. It was actually the hardest match I had to write in PVW because in taking the assingment, I knew I'd have to wrangle in multiple storylines and characters, and put everything in an order that would make some sense. So it's good to see that went well. Going over it again, I do wish I'd given Weaver and Dos more time to show their stuff, but oh well. Live and learn, I guess.
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Flouzemaker
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JeremyS,Jun 23 2012
03:12 AM
No need to qualify about being "off the cuff"; your viewpoints are as valid as anyone else's. I'm just stating mine, too.

In that case, it's mostly the "unprepared" more than the "off the cuff" that matters. For scheduling reasons, we had to record before I had fully read the show. At the time of the recording, I had read the last 2 matches, but only a quick speed read with a few skips here and there.
Normally, if my first read is hasty, I read the card a second time before doing a podcast. Not the case here.

Makes a big difference because, while I was wondering how the Spectre/hayes match would affect the Hayes/Detson match, I'd forgotten that the PPV match was already set to be a 2 of 3 falls.
The two title matches become so completely different in terms of gimmick and psychology that it flat out doesn't matter. Musing about something out loud, to me, isn't the same as expressing an opinion as the "wondering about stuff" step comes before I make up my mind on something.

And... I fully admit that I change my mind on stuff quickly and easily. I can like or dislike an angle, segment or character from show to show, or as soon as someone points out something cool or something dumb I had not noticed previously.

Anyway, I'll need to go back and take another look at the last two matches again next week, along with a few other segments, because I really had to speed through those in order to start recording with JC in time.






Quote:
 
As for Spectre looking like a face?  That happens in heel vs heel matches a lot of the time.  Since Spectre's angle involves him trying to prove that his way is the right way to eliminate HOPE, and the angle pretty much requires that he fail at that, he necessarily will look relatively sympathetic (relative to Gibson, anyway) at times.  The match doesn't exist in a vaccuum, so he (and Dro) can use these events to further their angle along.

I wasn't pointing out Spectre sudden babyface shine as a slam on anyone, but rather as a cue for Don, should he listen. If he knows how his character is perceived (of course I can only voice my own opinion on that matter), he becomes better equipped to write what comes next the way he wants to.
I like reading Spectre, so...


The only thing I would not ever want to see is something that looks like:

Spectre: "We have heard some internet critic-wannabes think we are going soft! Oh, how wrong are you, little critic!"

That's never good. And I don't just mean my horrible horrible version of Spectre!




And yes, I did enjoy SCD vs Weaver. It was entertaining and there was psychology to the match and all that. And lesser writers could have easily made a complete mess of the various angle stuff the four of us needed in the post-match.

I liked all the matches. If I had to pick one I liked the least, it'd probably be the rumble, not because it was bad but because it was harder to read. Dense action that confusingly jumped from guy to guy, and no commentary to help vary the pace or give more flavour. There were moments where it was more difficult to read because of the chaotic nature of the match and the density of the text, that's all.
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