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I was right! And I was wrong!
Topic Started: Mar 28 2013, 10:37 PM (1,047 Views)
sychosys
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Stolen from another section of the Forum!

sychosys,Feb 9 2012
11:38 PM
JeremySAtWork,Feb 9 2012
11:31 PM
sychosys,Feb 9 2012
02:56 AM
JeremyS,Feb 9 2012
02:24 PM
The JTTSes I do are the Rave, but I split them with Petrow.

So really, we should all just take those characters to full status.

What does "full status" even mean?

PC, not NPC.

An AWA JTTS can be used by anybody. As an example, Terry could take The Rave and have Violence Unlimited beat them up in a fourty second squash. They don't really have a handler.

It's the same with BC. Joe Malloy made him and does treat him like his character, but if he's a JTTS on the JTTS list, I could have James Monosso destroy him if I wanted (I wouldn't; but I technically could).

If they're actual handled characters though, they play by the same rules as anyone else.

To me, a JTTS is someone who is interesting, but doesn't (or cannot) have enough depth to be a fully fleshed out character. BC fits that mold well, as do The Rave.

I cannot imagine how you would have The Rave in their current form as a legitimate top-level tag team. You'd need a major overhaul to give them some depth. You'd have to have them come out one day and say "Alright, it's time to come clean. I'm Kenny Na, this here is Sean Holbeche. We dreamed up that whole future gimmick in order to get noticed. Now that you know The Rave, it's time to get real!!" But I don't think that anybody wants to see that...


So we're about a year into The Rave as a full-fledged handled team. In the beginning, Jeremy and I had a big discussion about whether to keep the whole time traveller thing straight up, or tweak them into being something more serious. Jeremy's viewpoint of keeping them as they were won out, and in hindsight, that appears to be the correct decision. If the recent Squaretabblies are any indication, they are one of the top tag teams in the JTF.

But I was also correct in that Blue would never see such a team as anything more than JTTS material. Not only do they always lose the big match, but Blue seems to actually get some perverse joy out of making them lose time and time again, while teams with much less fleshed out characters like The Lynches immediately get pushed to the moon.

So I was wrong in that they got over in an OOC sense, but right in that they couldn't succeed in the IC world. And it seems I also got this part wrong as well:

sychosys,Feb 10 2012
06:06 AM
IBut anyway, if Blue really thought that if any character was super over, wouldn't he push that entity to the top regardless of a JTTS label?

Oh well...
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JeremyS
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In this specific case, they almost HAD to lose simply because a top level face was needed in the next round. The good news is that it doesn't even really matter for The Rave. Their overness isn't related to their won-loss record. They can pick up some wins whenever, but they won't lose heat by losing.
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Overly_Critical_Jue
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Amigo, I ain't anybody but Juan Vasquez!
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Quote:
 
But I was also correct in that Blue would never see such a team as anything more than JTTS material. Not only do they always lose the big match, but Blue seems to actually get some perverse joy out of making them lose time and time again, while teams with much less fleshed out characters like The Lynches immediately get pushed to the moon.


Did you hack into my e-mail account or something?
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sychosys
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JeremyS,Mar 29 2013
12:42 PM
In this specific case, they almost HAD to lose simply because a top level face was needed in the next round. The good news is that it doesn't even really matter for The Rave. Their overness isn't related to their won-loss record. They can pick up some wins whenever, but they won't lose heat by losing.

Yo, Zack Ryder on line 2!
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Overly_Critical_Jue
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Amigo, I ain't anybody but Juan Vasquez!
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Why are you even complaining? At least you guys actually won a match last year!
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sychosys
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Overly_Critical_Jue,Mar 29 2013
12:56 PM
Why are even complaining? At least you guys actually won a match last year!

They did not win a single tag team match in 2012 that was not a squash or act of charity.
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Overly_Critical_Jue
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Amigo, I ain't anybody but Juan Vasquez!
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sychosys,Mar 28 2013
08:06 PM
Overly_Critical_Jue,Mar 29 2013
12:56 PM
Why are even complaining? At least you guys actually won a match last year!

They did not win a single tag team match in 2012 that was not a squash or act of charity.

That's a better situation than getting written out of the fed twice.

And 2011 wasn't exactly a bed of roses either!
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sychosys
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Overly_Critical_Jue,Mar 29 2013
01:09 PM
sychosys,Mar 28 2013
08:06 PM
Overly_Critical_Jue,Mar 29 2013
12:56 PM
Why are even complaining? At least you guys actually won a match last year!

They did not win a single tag team match in 2012 that was not a squash or act of charity.

That's a better situation than getting written out of the fed twice.

And 2011 wasn't exactly a bed of roses either!

Enough of your whining! The Dragon Slayers lost to the Blue Brothers, so they are the new Ultimate Jobbers. Likewise, The Rave lost to VU, so they are now the new most screwed over team in the AWA.

To be the men, you gotta job to the men!
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Overly_Critical_Jue
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Amigo, I ain't anybody but Juan Vasquez!
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The Rave have defeated The Lynches.

Blue put it IN WRITING that VU will never be able to beat The Lynches because he "likes" that idea.

Redo the math!
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BigPoppaBuyrate
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I keep erasing and rewriting this post because every time I try, it doesn't express correctly what I'm thinking.

Do I think The Rave is your standard JTTS team? No.

Do I think The Rave is difficult to book as a serious tag team? Yes.

And there are a bunch of reasons for that. The futurespeak with the made-up words is a big part. It's hard to book that over a team who did a "normal" promo. The count out thing is another. And yes, the wacky strats bother me. We saw that when we had the big discussion/argument at SuperClash.

I like the idea of a New Breed homage. They were one of my favorite teams in the NWA days. But The Rave and The New Breed are very different creatures.
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sychosys
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BigPoppaBuyrate,Mar 29 2013
01:25 PM
I keep erasing and rewriting this post because every time I try, it doesn't express correctly what I'm thinking.

Do I think The Rave is your standard JTTS team?  No.

Do I think The Rave is difficult to book as a serious tag team?  Yes. 

And there are a bunch of reasons for that.  The futurespeak with the made-up words is a big part.  It's hard to book that over a team who did a "normal" promo.  The count out thing is another.  And yes, the wacky strats bother me.  We saw that when we had the big discussion/argument at SuperClash. 

I like the idea of a New Breed homage.  They were one of my favorite teams in the NWA days.  But The Rave and The New Breed are very different creatures.

To summarize, they are tolerated, but they will always lose. Which is pretty close to what I already said.

Overly_Critical_Jue,Mar 29 2013
01:17 PM
The Rave have defeated The Lynches.

Blue put it IN WRITING that VU will never be able to beat The Lynches because he "likes" that idea.

Redo the math!

But Blue actually LIKES VU, whereas I'm pretty sure that he regrets ever letting The Rave in the door.
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Overly_Critical_Jue
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Amigo, I ain't anybody but Juan Vasquez!
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Quote:
 
But Blue actually LIKES VU


Posted Image

I have a difficult time telling if Blue likes any of my characters outside of Vasquez. He can only fool me with the "Terry wrote a promo that almost made me rethink the booking...ALMOST." so many times before I stop falling for it.
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sychosys
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Overly_Critical_Jue,Mar 29 2013
02:04 PM
Quote:
 
But Blue actually LIKES VU


Posted Image

I have a difficult time telling if Blue likes any of my characters outside of Vasquez. He can only fool me with the "Terry wrote a promo that almost made me rethink the booking...ALMOST." so many times before I stop falling for it.

They won the titles. They won the Cup. They made the finals of another. They were portrayed as the most dominant team in wrestling.

When have The Rave been presented as anything but goofs that always lose?
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ElSavaje
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OBVIOUSLY Blue jobbed the Rave out because he feared a MAMMOTHs-Rave encounter, in which I play the Prehistoric Powers as actually being from pre-history, thus causing some sort of cataclysmic timey-wimey clash when these cryogenically-unfrozen creatures of the past meet the travellers from the future.
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Overly_Critical_Jue
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Quote:
 
When have The Rave been presented as anything but goofs that always lose?


When they decisively defeated The Lynches and injured one of them. It was a darker side to them that I don't think was ever really followed up on. They went back to being more lighthearted than dangerous.

Counterpoint...when have The Rave ever portrayed themselves as anything but goofs? You can be a time traveler and also cut a semi-serious promo, I think.

One of the hardest things to do in e-w is to get a comedic character taken as a serious threat. I can understand the frustration. Miyuki Ozaki is #4 in the polls, has won female wrestler of the year about a kajillion times now and IC, she's still otherwise dismissed by most every character as a silly girl that does silly things when all signs should point that she should be taken very seriously. Some feds treat her better...some just roll their eyes at her. It's extremely frustrating.

I think the question here is...can The Rave keep their time traveling gimmick and also become a serious threat? I think so. I don't think a complete character overhaul is needed, but recapturing some of that menace that I saw in The Lynches match would help.
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