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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 7 2011, 09:11 AM (149 Views) | |
| Minister Wighty | Dec 7 2011, 09:11 AM Post #1 |
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Chief Executive Officer
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Before I get to actual feedback, a topic arose this week that I was really hoping I wasn't going to have to tackle as the last time it became an issue it was rather... well, things got heated. Fortunately the last time it was an issue was back in the time of EZboard and I believe the person in question was Kailey Lane if that gives you an approximate date. I thought we might have a bullet to dodge when Craig brought in Cousin Abel who didn't speak for himself and didn't have anyone speak on his behalf either, but thankfully that went by pretty smoothly. So... here's the deal. Most of Joe Stanton's roleplays are roughly 75% narration. Which is fine. It's a little bit cumbersome on me eyes, but it's fine. I would never knock on how another man chooses to write his stuff, especially since he went to all the trouble of using color codes to make it easier on me to read. I appreciate it, I read it, and I factor it into my decision. The problem comes in as it pertains to an opponent reacting to said promo. As it happened this week, Joe Stanton's narrator said a few things which hide Kitazawa responded to. Joe Stanton (understandably) reacted with nothing but confusion as he never breathed a word hide was mentioning and really, hide just looked like a crazy person. In most circumstances, that's fine. Plenty of wrestlers keep secrets in their narration that the opponent should obviously have no knowledge of and another person preying on that knowledge is sort of fourth-wall breaking and rude. Plenty of narrators are completely different characters from the wrestler and really should be paid no heed at all as it's either the author's opinion or just some silly nonsense piped in for laughs/to create drama. But with a character like Joe Stanton that... becomes a pretty nasty grey area... eugh... When most of the material you're putting out is narration it makes it difficult for your opponent to respond. I mean, take a look at the difference between Nir's actual roleplay and Nir's roleplay minus the things that an actual outside observer wouldn't be able to tell. That's quite a difference, isn't it? Obviously, as the peek into his characters' heads is what has driven Nir to be the Midway Champion here and the Tag Team Champion over in That Other Fed. But when you deny your opponent the chance to respond to the meat of what your character is saying... well, you might as well be PMing me your roleplays, or writing them in secret and then posting them at 11:58 on the day of the deadline. Now... don't get me wrong on any level. Reading your opponnet's mind (or script) isn't cool either and in pretty much any other circumstance I'd be admantly on Nir's side on this one, laughing at Dai for being so bold as to react to narration that never happened to the naked eye, but it's a strong part of the roleplay. Some might say the strongest part. And if he isn't allowed to attempt to dodge those slings and arrows then... well, it's not really fair. I also don't want anyone to think that I'm just picking on Nir or helping Dai because he's my friend or anything of the sort. First of all, I'd say Nir and I are time away from being as close of friends as Dai and I are. Secondly, this issue is... dangerously sticky no matter who the culprit/victim is. I see a couple potential solutions here... but they're dangerously "my way or the highway" and that's not what I'm trying to sound like at the moment, so I'd love to hear any suggestions anyone might have to clear up this problem without causing too much strife. I'm not trying to start an argument; I'm trying to solve a problem. I should probably also note that there is a secondary problem as it has been brewing for a few weeks now and hasn't gone away like I'd hoped. This whole issue of people not giving their roleplaying partner a chance to react/respond/whatever. *sighs* I don't like this one because it's kind of petty. Nobody's exactly powerplaying anybody, or laying anyone out. I think the worst things that have happened are someone spit water in someone's face, someone's owl present got opened and made fun of, and a number of people have left a roleplay without getting some kind of reprecussion. I recently updated the NGIW rules (around the same time I did the FIW ones... and they look rather similar, how 'bout that?) with the following, and I feel it sums up my thoughts on the matter rather handedly.
Just... be cool, guys. I understand this is a competitive environment, and I get that sort of thing can be irritating if done against one's wishes, and I also understand it can be hard to get in touch with somebody within time for the deadline but... c'mon. If you have a problem, solve it OOC. Be polite. Be mature. Don't make catty comments back and forth at one another in your roleplays, especially not carrying over into the next week. Just... not cool. With all that said; onto the results. Lita and I never really finished our thread, and even with the assistance of the solo thread I thought Spice (who we are ostensibly roleplaying against here) had better material that was more comprehensive than what we managed to put out. Good job on Joe. It says a lot for a guy to start a roleplay thread with one of his opponents with a character who has nothing to do with the character's he's roleplaying for the match to still end up winning even after that. Bloodbath/Joe vs KhAiNdAeE~! was... *sighs* Well, I don't like how I had to judge this match in the end, but for the reasons explained above I basically had to throw hide and Stanton out of the equation. This would've led to a Bloodbath victory over Kanae, roleplay-wise, but I don't think that feeds either character's gimmick very well. Bloodbath has been beating up on pretty much nothing but smaller-framed wrestlers for a while now, and that makes Bloodbath look like more of a bully than a monster, and bully isn't really his gimmick. So I put him over hide in the match for purely booking reasons; Bloodbath gets a solid victory over a big name in NGIW, brings some prestige to the RCR, and has a fancy feather to put in his hat while Kanae can legitimately say she did her part in the tag match and doesn't have to be so mopey all the time. Unless she's supposed to be mopey and I'm just fucking that whole gimmick up, in which case I am very sorry. Wiggum vs. Finn... those roleplays were SO GOOD!! Wiggum won by an eyelash. Thanks guys. Really a great read, really brightened up my week after all the shuddering over potential drama. Chester vs. Owen was... a different beast. This wasn't Chester's A-Game, but between Lita being so godawful busy and the potential for storylines this match has I can't fault her for being lax. That being said, I don't feel Owen won hard enough to deserve a submission victory over someone like Chester, and I also am not entirely happy I had to use a signature move to end the match, but I tried to make it as devestating-sounding as possible for it to lead so easily into a pinfall. I can't really say this was Will's A-game either (don't know if it was Owen's or not; time will tell) as I'd say that was more brought with Finn, but it was good enough to earn a victory over what was offered, so keep up the good work the both of you. One last thing before I ask for thots and I can't stress this enough; I am not trying to start drama. I'm not looking for people to fight over petty shit. I like everybody in this fed, and I like having them in this fed, but there are issues and there's no clear right or wrong, no clear good or bad, and the lines are gray enough I can't just take the side of the closest friend and have done with it. I implore you guys to please work this out maturely, and especially with the issue of the heavy narration/mind reading please give me some ideas as to what I/we/you/ need to be doing to make sure this doesn't become a problem because I don't like the solutions I've come up with. Card up later tonight. Thots? |
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| triadred | Dec 7 2011, 10:01 AM Post #2 |
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The Handsomest Boy in Professional Wrestling
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Before I leave feed back, I just wanted to comment on the Claire spitting water in Kims face issue. Lita and I had talked it out and then had amazing make-up sex. She had a legitimate reason to be upset with me as I essentially cut Claire out of the thread before Kim could respond, and as soon as I knew that I sent Lita an apology PM. But for the record, I wasn't trying to shut things down and steal any opportunities from Kim or take liberties with someone elses character. I guess I felt I had done enough in a thread that I wasn't really supposed to be involved in. So harmless intentions which unfortunately weren't well thought out on my part. I don't do things with bad intentions in mind. Fuck... I'm Canadian! I'm biologically incapable of being mean! So there's my kiss and hug for everyone who got upset at me. But we all know that you couldn't stay mad at me forever. I'm so adorable! Look at this face Okay. Feed back. I had started a thread for Bloodbath and Kim that didn't go anywhere, but that's cool. I havn't told Lita as much yet, because she did apologize to me for it (and then we had more make-up sex) but it actually turned out to be something of a good thing. Now I have stuff to write about for Bloodbath. I was honestly floundering with the character. Mopey Bloodbath is only fun for so long. I needed to get him back on his feet. So at least he has some fire in his belly again. I think the match ruling was as fair as Wight could make it, and I don't say that purely because my guy got the nod. Sometimes I wish I were Wight because he consistently churns out quality stuff and has a beard, but this is one of those instances when I'm glad I'm not Wight. That's right. Being me is pretty sweet right now. |
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| Minister Wighty | Dec 7 2011, 10:22 AM Post #3 |
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Chief Executive Officer
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Well, that's a relief. To an outside observer what were just smarmy in-jokes were coming off as catty snipes. It's good to see it was the former, and I'm glad I was just misinformed. My bad. |
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| Nightmare | Dec 7 2011, 10:49 AM Post #4 |
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HOLY SHIT I WON. And trust me Wight, I enjoyed RPing against Wiggs as much as you enjoyed..er..reading me RP with Wiggs. Be ready for that Hellfire Club thread. And as far as Owen's match, I figured it would be a different beast because of how busy Lita and I have been recently, but it was still a great match and a really interesting dynamic how Owen kinda changed his strategy to fit what Chester was doing. BUT HOLY SHIT I WON. |
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| Daisuke | Dec 7 2011, 11:50 AM Post #5 |
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Who Let That Idiot Near a Computer?
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I am just posting to say that I have read the show and read this thread; and am considering things. |
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| Mjölnir | Dec 7 2011, 11:59 AM Post #6 |
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We Live. We Die. We Live Again.
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Well, I was talking to Dai on AIM the day he posted the RP. I think I expressed my confusion over hide knowing all that to him at the time. I partially didn't see the point as up until this last RP cycle, where hide did that, I've always tried to be quick about Joe voicing his opinions. Even intended to throw out another RP shortly after that one about it and as you said, not like it's the first time I've done it in an RP either. I wasn't mad at Dai to put that out there. I don't think Dai was mad at me or is. Mildly bothered the entire thing had to be thrown out because of it, makes all my effort feel kind of a waste of time. All the more that Joe barely was in the ring & hide and he never even locked up though I suspect that was the point. But I understand if you are feeling it is an issue and/or feeling conflicted about it. On another note...damn you for putting the show up so early, I never thought I'd say that. Why damn you? Well none of you will ever find out now. :P |
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| Jo-Jo | Dec 7 2011, 12:12 PM Post #7 |
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The Snacky-Smores Guy
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Like closing up your bathrobe when you walk by a window? Sorry. Wow. Not wow I won, which no was a wow, just wow I forgot today was show time. Imagine my surprise when I checked in to see if there was something new and the RPs were all gone. Then prolong that feeling by a minute or so as I just woke up. Nowhere going with this, just random commentary. I'm gonna have to re read that Evil Girls RP because I can't remember what Spice was talking about. Something about a walk, Taylor...evil things. Hm, earlier comment can come off as wrong, I don't stalk you, Dai, and I am surprised by the win. Just a little upset we didn't see if Blink got her pat on the head or if Roxie got more signatures. I obviously blame myself since I wasn't paying attention to the time. As for the situation on hand, I'll just say I likeNir's stuff. Ah, sort of feels good being out of the hot seat. Damn! Should've taken advantage of the week and killed someone off! Party on, Joe. ~eat snacky smores~ |
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| Daisuke | Dec 7 2011, 12:43 PM Post #8 |
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Who Let That Idiot Near a Computer?
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It seemed to me like we were just going to write it off as one of those things and move on. Then, three hours before I went to bed on the day of the deadline, in a three minute span, I was faced with: a post dealing with Joe's insecurities regarding Kim & Wiggim [fair enough,] a post ragging on hide for knowing shit he shouldn't have [somewhat irritating, see above,] and a post containing a promo where Joe sounded a whole lot different in my head to how I was being told he sounded. By the time I finished off the last one at the gym, I had something like an hour, maybe a little more to get something up to address some of the points that Joe made before I go to bed; and I sure as shit can't think of any in-character ways to express what I felt was the difference between the narration and the actual body of the promo. It would have pissed me off no end to lose to that, so I hammered out that one last hide promo, which did kinda suck. Also, in the first instance, I don't think hide directly attributed what he was talking about to what Joe Stanton had said. If Joe had come back to respond to what hide had said, maybe making a throw-away jibe about him finding that out, fine. We all roll our eyes and move on, right? Instead, there's a whole post dedicated to it; and yeah, I was a little miffed about that. Bit miffed about seeing 3 posts in 3 minutes that late; especially when there wasn't a whole lot to say in response. With all that off my chest, that's it. Matter's at an end. I was annoyed, but between writing all that out and the way the result went in the end, that has passed. |
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| Mjölnir | Dec 7 2011, 12:58 PM Post #9 |
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We Live. We Die. We Live Again.
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To give something of my side of the story to this... I don't really see the difference between the Joe RP that does address it and the one line addressing it you bring up. Both are basically the same concept. The RP in which it is addressed was meant to further several points, Bloodbath, hide and Wiggum. Least that's what I intended...if it came across as just Joe thinking hide's crazy, well, I guess I failed putting across what I had intended with it. To get it out of the way, reason I put them all up at once was because they were each a glorified extension of the last, a story. I don't see the issue with that, there was still plenty of time before the deadline and in my defense, I spent some time at work the night before writing one & a half of them. Also imagine my surprise when hide was talking about things Joe had only in passing thought about up until that point. :P All this said, I don't want to start an argument, partially because I ain't even mad. So I'm willing to agree to disagree on the matter or whatever. |
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| Minister Wighty | Dec 7 2011, 02:26 PM Post #10 |
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Chief Executive Officer
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I respect that the two of you are handling this so maturely, but the next guy might not. Especially if it's a newbie or something, y'know? I'm going to need to figure out a hard-line decision to follow here as it regards such situations. Or perhaps I'm not. There's a bit too much vaguness and apology in the way for me to truly tell exactly what everyone's on about. |
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| Daisuke | Dec 7 2011, 02:44 PM Post #11 |
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Who Let That Idiot Near a Computer?
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A quick throwaway line would have been a kick in the shins. What you actually did felt more like getting his blue head jumped on. Especially when I felt [still feel, actually] that I - as an RPer - had a legit right to respond to issues raised in an RP, no matter how they were raised. And as I say, hide never directly attributed it to Joe Stanton, he kept it vague, referring to a general "you," and then referred to Joe separately. This strikes me as a fair compromise for dealing with a situation like that. New paragraph, 'cause this is a separate issue, although still sort of related: Even now, I still don't know what to do when Joe sounds to me like he's being an arrogant twat, but I'm being told by the narrator that he's full of love and respect. I'm exaggerating, but... Finally, I'm British, I'm on GMT; so those RPs showed up at about 10pm, so I had three hours at most, assuming that if I go to bed at 1am, I can just about function in work the next day. That kind of thing happens on a Friday deadline, then no problem; it's all grand. I did a Blondie RP while I was a drink shy of hammered a few weeks ago. |
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| Mjölnir | Dec 7 2011, 02:55 PM Post #12 |
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We Live. We Die. We Live Again.
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Like I said, difference of opinion then I guess on the whole addressing it issue. And while you have the right to respond to them, I have the right to respond in kind. Especially when they aren't anything my character's verbally said and made known as fact as to how he feels about a situation. People change their minds, say things that are half truths, and sometimes flat-out don't believe all the time. I never argued the point that hide kept it relatively vague, so he could either be referring to Joe or an outside party. Still don't know who the outside party would be, unless they're talking out their asses though is my only issue with that. And it's not even an issue, really. I thought it was kind of clear that Joe has something of a short temper. Which combined with something of a "stage presence" leads to the cocky twat when he feels disrespected by somebody. Then the "off stage presence" is the Joe that is seen with Kim, Brie, the McConnaighs, and sometimes with Bloodbath & Claire. As far as GMT...I don't really know what to say. For me, it was like 4 p.m. in the afternoon, and I'm on the time zone I believe Wighty bases the deadline on. So to me, I posted those RPs with more than enough time to respond to them. Not like I'm simply not going to post RPs, especially when my opponent's pumped out two while I've been away. |
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| Minister Wighty | Dec 7 2011, 03:16 PM Post #13 |
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Chief Executive Officer
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I've talked to both Nir and Dai in private in addition to this public debate, and the decision we've come to is that if Joe is expressing anything in thought he will soon after express it verbally (with some exceptions), so this shouldn't be an issue again. |
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| Wigumoto | Dec 7 2011, 03:17 PM Post #14 |
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Beltsmith
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Interrupting the main programming here just to leave a little backfeed. I have to thank Will for that awesome storytelling RP. Up until that point I was working on a RP with Wiggs and Bean and a vending machine that I just was not feeling at all, in fact I put it aside and then went back to it due to lack of ideas, then I read what Finn was up to and inspiration hit. Was real fun RPing this week. Thanks to Lita as well. I've really struggled with Wiggs since I brought him back, much more then I thought I would but I've been determined to work out the kinks. Then Lita rocks up with an offer from Kim a week or two back and gives him a foundation in this fed, not to mention someone to talk to. Now I feel like I'm starting to get to grips with him again and, let's be honest, it's not the first time one of Lita's characters has made Wiggum more interesting. I will just add to the overall debate that timezones suck and I have found in the past that the last 4 or 5 hours of a deadline often fall when I'm asleep. It's frustrating. You're by no means deadline bombing by posting at such a time, but it can feel like it when you wake up the morning after the deadline's passed to find a RP from your opponent posted in the early hours of the morning sitting there staring out at you from your monitor. Again, not your fault, I'm just saying, it's frustrating. |
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| Lita Maivia | Dec 7 2011, 04:03 PM Post #15 |
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The Lovely Assistant
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...is it bad of me to basically ignore this thread? Wow, I hope not. I don't mean that against anybody, but I just don't have the mental capacity to read come up with any opinions on the matters. I hope they're resolved. Sounds like they are. The most fun I had this week (aside from the make-up sex with Adam) was the RP between Blink and Lucas. I just love those two characters together. They're just so much fun and Jo gave me an great piece for Lucas' storyline. You'll probably see that owl again. Now I'm just waiting for Roxie to start crushing hardcore on Lucas. That should be fun. Really disappointed that I didn't have the time or energy to put in enough effort with Chester. I really wanted this victory. As much as this is great that now he has another contender of sorts to challenge him, I just really feel disappointed that I wasn't able to try and win this one. I mean, I probably COULD have forced the time and energy, but in the grand scheme of things it would've been a poor decision on my part giving there were more important things to worry about. All in all, sorry to everybody that I didn't RP fast enough or often enough or well enough in all the threads people started with me. Already apologized to Adam for not even noticing the one he started for us, but the make-up sex was worth it. ;) |
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| Nightmare | Dec 7 2011, 05:14 PM Post #16 |
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Thank yah'. I thought it was a great idea too what with Wiggum and Finn having their own degree of 'mythicalness' about them. Plus; Finn's Irish. He's always got a story. And as I said, throw up that Hellfire Club RP whenever you want, I'll definitely do that idea with you. |
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