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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 31 2012, 11:46 PM (356 Views) | |
| Minister Wighty | Mar 31 2012, 11:46 PM Post #1 |
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Chief Executive Officer
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First, this: http://z4.invisionfree.com/FIWII/index.php?showtopic=15649 Go here. It should explain everything, especially why the card isn't up. If it doesn't go through I have a card already made up for Vice. I'm hoping to get this ironed out by Monday morning, my time. I think most of the matches are pretty easy to get around. The only thing contraversial might be the main event... and even then I can really only think of one person who would argue with the decision. I have to say I have never been more disappointed in my e-fedding career. Joe won the title by listening to my advice, by having a compelling character in an interesting situation, by playing to my every whim... and then he turns around and does this heel turn. This week's Roxie RPs contained some of the most morally reprehensible and pointlessly incendiary shit I've ever seen in an e-fed. As a viewer I feel it violently invalidates almost everything we've ever learned and loved about Roxie and I don't like it. If it's a heel turn it's so painfully forced and unwanted that it feels like rape. If it's a storyline I'm really tired of these stupid fucking twists. Worse yet the timing is awful. I took a gamble in following my gut and going with Roxie, instead of keeping the safe bet, the more popular bet that Chester should keep the title and I just feel like I've been kicked in the balls for it. I also don't like having the NGIW title mocked by having a championship match be a "Furry Ladder Match". What a slap in the face. The title would've been devalued less if he had simply won it then left the fed. Well, that's the show. Thots? |
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| Mjölnir | Mar 31 2012, 11:58 PM Post #2 |
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We Live. We Die. We Live Again.
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I liked the show, it was an odd sort of one. I was pleased to see Knight vs. Bloodbath be everything and more than I could ever dream of. I might've sent in my suggestion but you were the creator, Wighty, you breathed life into my text. Kudos. Wiggum/Sakura went about the way I thought it would after Dai focused so heavily on the main event. Can't fault him for it either. Kim's going to wrestle again? Hm. Is Will gone from FIW & NGIW? I laughed about as hard as I did the first time the mecha spider showed up when I read it coming to the ring. The finish was a little OOT for what I imagine in NGIW but hey, it worked. I was happy for Jo when Roxie & he won the belt but I can't argue the decision after this past RP cycle. Dai was on with hide and Jo's twist with Roxie was....not what I was expecting when Roxie won the belt, I'll put it like that. Sucks she dropped it on the first defense but such is life, always got the rematch. |
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| Lita Maivia | Apr 1 2012, 12:00 AM Post #3 |
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The Lovely Assistant
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Just gonna leave this here for now...![]()
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| Mjölnir | Apr 1 2012, 12:52 AM Post #4 |
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We Live. We Die. We Live Again.
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Also look at that, one more reign and hide's tied for most. Not bad for a kid that got his penis partially bitten off. [size0]Pst, Dai, drop the belt real quick to Triad or Wiggs. I'm sure they'll be nice enough to let you have it back to tie that record. :P |
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| Daisuke | Apr 1 2012, 01:32 AM Post #5 |
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Who Let That Idiot Near a Computer?
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There is absolutely no way I can complain about that match. Also, I love Jessica Knight, although it wouldn't have been quite the same if she'd have won. |
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| Mjölnir | Apr 1 2012, 01:37 AM Post #6 |
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We Live. We Die. We Live Again.
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Yeah, after taunting Bloodbath the other week, and saying what she did this week, heel had to be put in her place. Who says NGIW isn't good for the kids? It's totally anti-bullying. NGIW: B.A.* |
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| Wigumoto | Apr 1 2012, 04:21 PM Post #7 |
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Beltsmith
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Pleasantly surprised by Wiggum's victory. I've had a busy week so I haven't been totally focused on any efedding (poor Lesbiana) but once again Lita makes me look good. There's no Shepard without Vakarian and right now there's no Wiggum without Kim. I vote for hide to incorporate his mecha spider into his regular ring entrance. |
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| Jo-Jo | Apr 1 2012, 04:24 PM Post #8 |
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The Snacky-Smores Guy
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All of that was exactly the point. You can't expect somebody with the matruity level like Roxie to suddenly "grow up" when she wins the big one, it's like yelling at a kid for getting excited at Disneyland. I'm glad that it was taken in such a personal way, but no so in the way that my character had to be blasted away both IC and OOC. Like you said; it's a game, don't take it too seriously. Party on, Joe. ~eat snacky smores~ |
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| Nightmare | Apr 1 2012, 06:47 PM Post #9 |
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I'm not gone, I'm just taking a short break and doing a little character crossover. Wight knows why. I'll be back to form soon. |
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| Lita Maivia | Apr 1 2012, 07:14 PM Post #10 |
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The Lovely Assistant
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Soon better mean in like a week or two. |
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| Minister Wighty | Apr 1 2012, 10:35 PM Post #11 |
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Chief Executive Officer
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I'm going to translate this into what I got from it and then I'd like you to explain where my process was wrong, because I'm clearly missing something. "The point was for her to act immature and selfish, possibly a brat. I'm glad she was protrayed accurately, but I don't know why other characters and handlers don't like someone being immature, selfish, and bratty about the most important title in this federation." EDIT: After giving your statements a bit of thought, I have a little more to offer in terms of extrapolation; I always prefer to give feedback on why I made contraversial decisions because it's eventually going to be asked of me anyway. It saves us all time. You put out a greater number of words than Dai. I also assume you believed your RPs to be superior, as this is always the case with you and if you thought they sucked... well, I don't see you as having tried as hard as you did. I'm not "blasting you" for the sake of being mean; I am reacting negatively to your submitted material. Just the same as people in-character are not "blasting" Roxie. She's acting like an ungrateful child. People don't respond well to that. I don't know why you'd assume they would. |
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| Jo-Jo | Apr 2 2012, 05:49 AM Post #12 |
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The Snacky-Smores Guy
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First, I'm not upset that I lost. Not once did I say I was upset I lost. I was, and am still, upset because all that buildup you mentioned was done for Roxie was pretty much bitch slapped. Essentially the match was; hide, hide, hide, hide, hide, hide beating up Roxie (followed by pretty much stating she can never beat hide), hide, hide, hide wins. I';m basically upset you destroyed what momentum she had both in character and out of it. I don't care if people make fun of her, I never had a problem with that. Lita can atest to that very well. I'm upset because of...
Which tells me there's a mold you want for a champion and I didn't fit into it. Therefore, Roxie can never be champion again because there would be that iffy thought in your head. The one that says "She sucked ass as champion before, no sense letting her go again". That's why I'm upset. Perhaps it's a misconception, but apparently those are going around. |
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| Minister Wighty | Apr 2 2012, 12:14 PM Post #13 |
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Chief Executive Officer
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*shrugs* So I assumed incorrectly. I gave this feedback before you even said word one, as I explained, so you wouldn't have to say word one. It's what I always do unless I'm under a particular amount of stress. Not once did I even mention that you had bitched about your loss or anything of the sort because, as you pointed out... you hadn't. Don't put words into my mouth if I'm not putting them in yours.
I think you're either being colorful to paint the match as victimising you more, or willfully obtuse. There was the spot about Boy being upset at Roxie's choice in costume (Roxie), the comparably large spot about hide's spider-mech tromping to the ring (hide), an explanation as to why Roxie would lose against hide in this match (hide), the words "bobbing, weaving, dancing, striking" which were meant to imply that both wrestlers had a bit of offense back and forth, especially since Roxie gets her own verb just for her style, and then hide winning. I always put something of that sort in a description of the match, and since we have a lot of fast strikers who also do submissions that go against hide, I usually mention how hide is the better striker. Because in kayfabe... he is. Seriously, go back through the archives if you want. I almost always mention this. As much as 'Mo tried to claim that Chester Wynn was Ofdensen's golden boy, I think it's clear that hide Kitazawa is NGIW's biggest star, and always has been, thus I sell him as such. Does that mean Roxie can never beat him? No. Certainly not. Roxie might've picked the wrong song to suit her rhythms for the night, or perhaps she needs to change her psychology a bit since that's a big part of how she wins matches as well. Regardless of all that, in-character it's the reason she lost. We both know the real reason is out-of-character, in the quality of the RPs, which I've gone ahead and just labelled you as unpredictable on because that's what I've got.
I would argue that you've done that yourself. In fact, I said as much in my initial post. Excuse my use of wrestling terminology I don't ordinarily have in NGIW, but logical progression or not, if I reward you a title based on months of hard work with a determined underdog face and then the second she takes the strap you turn her into a self-centered, bitchy heel without any warning. I don't think I'm the one to blame for her momentum getting shattered. You put on the breaks, you threw the character into reverse, and you did all of this without even giving me a heads up. It's the NGIW equivalent of going into business for yourself, since we can't suffer quite the same problems as FIW has had of late.
There's no set mold I have for my champions. I wouldn't have handed Roxie the strap in the first place if I thought there was. She's violently different from any other NGIW Champion we've ever had. There IS, however, a certain amount of decorum I expect from my NGIW Champion handlers. I hold them to a much higher standard and have a lot less patience for them when they fuck around with my show OOC. This is a hobby, sure, yes. I try not to take it too seriosuly, but if you shit on the title you shit on the title. That's hard to recover from. That ruins the game for everyone because suddenly the NGIW Championship is that much less impressive. Ask Lita if you don't believe me; she's my best friend and I think there were two full points during her reign with Chester where I blew a fucking gasket on her for stuff I thought she was doing to devalue the title. For this fed to sustain itself with its small roster and insular nature, no one person can be more important than the NGIW Championship. When you chose to make the stipulation for your match a Furry Ladder Match, you mocked the title. Or, Roxie did, and in-kayfabe it's way fucking worse than it is out-of-kayfabe. Either way, the whims of one person became more important than the NGIW Championship. I can't have that. Ofdensen can't have that. NGIW can't have that. So, yes, you're pretty close in your statement. I would change a few words; there's a mold I want for the NGIW champion's handler and you didn't fit it. Therefore, Joe is unlikely to be NGIW champion again because there would be that iffy thought in my head that says "he broke my trust before, do I really want him to do it again?" |
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| Daisuke | Apr 2 2012, 01:06 PM Post #14 |
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Who Let That Idiot Near a Computer?
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To me, this is the key phrase. As a straight white male, I am part of the least oppressed minority on the planet. Racism or sexism haven't really impacted my life in any real way, so anything along those lines doesn't really touch me. I personally cannot get offended by Roxie being so happy that "that faggot's career is being fed through the wood chipper," for example. To me, it just seems like transparent shock-jock stuff to cement the heel turn. The heel turn is so sudden, and so over-the-top, and there really isn't that much need for it just yet. Freshening up an already pretty fresh character with the title run and whatever, a heel turn doesn't accomplish much. Personally, I just write it off as another JoJo "LOLSWERVE." To quote Wight again: "If it's a storyline I'm really tired of these stupid fucking twists." In short, I find it a poorly timed heel turn that plays on emotions that aren't there. Roxie was getting likable for a second back there; but not enough to make me shocked, or surprised. I don't want to be jumping on anyone's head here, but this is what Ive been thinking about in work. |
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| Jo-Jo | Apr 2 2012, 02:57 PM Post #15 |
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The Snacky-Smores Guy
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I didn't. This whole "heel turn" wasn't some swerve for emotional grab, as Dia would put it. It was Roxie pissed off at people because once she got to the top it became a realization that she had to do it all on her own without support aside from signatures. Also, Roxie's comment regarding Lucas...she's always hated Lucas. She's never gotten along with him and she has yet to find anything, aside from the fact that apparently he's cute, to like. So I don't think that really contributes to any heel swerve. In regards to the match itself; think of the minds that created it. In the little outside comments it was even questioned. Vicky actually questioned it to Roxie's face. I mean it's almost like no one read anything after the match was decided and even if you did you just only read Roxie's lines. It was called stupid then, it was called desecrating the title after...did there have to be a song and dance too? But whatever, maybe next time (assuming there is a next time) I'll put on the suit and tie and choose some random blood match as opposed to mixing things up there but staying true to a character. Party on, Joe. ~eat snacky smores~ |
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| Minister Wighty | Apr 2 2012, 03:42 PM Post #16 |
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Chief Executive Officer
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For your information I read every RP rather thoroughly. Vicky being the voice of reason for once I found a rather amusing twist for personal reasons, but as much credit as both she and the narrator were giving the content for being well written and clearly outlining that Roxie's actions were childish and sutpid... it doesn't change the fact that Roxie's actions are childish and stupid. It also doesn't change the fact that the shift as a whole was annoying and unnecessary. I don't care how "in character" it was, or how logical it might've seemed under the circumstances. This isn't about how your character is acting, it's about how YOU are acting. As a writer you have to own up to your character's actions, even if you don't like them. Markon Charles, for example, became a bit too three dimensional recently and refused to cooperate in my head because he didn't win clean against Joe Stanton. It was a logical progression for the character. Everything I did with him after that point made sense, but instead of forcing the semi-face turn the Markon in my head was looking for and as a writer/GM having Joe Stanton suffer and look bad for it I abandoned the character to work with material that got less twisted. It sucks. I liked being Midway Champion. I liked working with Nir on what I thought was a cool storyline, but the character would not logically cooperate and thus I had to manage the consequences. As it applies here, if this is what Roxie felt she needed to do, if this was the logical progression, and if YOU chose to go with it, then YOU need to own up to it. You can't shunt your blame off on an imaginary person and say that just because SHE feels HER actions are justified that it justifies the treatment of the title and the fed as a whole. I've told you a thousand times you're welcome to RP whatever you want here, but to not expect it to get you any victories if you "color outside the lines". NGIW casts a pretty wide net and accepts a lot of walks of life. Theatrical characters, hardcore wrestlers, crazy people, technical masters, MMA strikers... but pretty much the only thing I've tried to steer us away from is the era often referred to as "Neo Gothic Industrial Circuis" populated by the characters of Onikage and Marmalade Chainsaw, constant dildo jokes, and so forth. NGIW certainly isn't SRS BSNS all the time (see: Loon), but there's a line, and you crossed it. True to the character or not, you crossed it. I don't understand why you feel victimized in this situation when all that's happened is you've made an unpopular decision and are simply suffering the consequences. |
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| Jo-Jo | Apr 2 2012, 04:07 PM Post #17 |
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The Snacky-Smores Guy
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Perhaps this is another misconception but all I'm getting from that is apparently I'm upset I lost. I'm not. Outside I was having fun, I enjoyed writing Roxie in that semi-new light. But I'm no longer caring about this, it's just annoying circles and you've got a stupid little merger thing to do. So from now on I'll RP solely for victories because apparently that's the only way I would ever get upset. I'll colour in the lines because free thought isn't awarded in even the simplest of ways. No, that's actually sarcasm. I'll continue to write what I want despite whatever losses I take...hey, kinda like I said before. I mean I'll take a few of those when I questioned the losses, or maybe most were just me asking what I can improve on. *gasp* The problem with writing is you only perceive them the way you want. Party on, Joe. ~eat snacky smores~ |
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| Minister Wighty | Apr 2 2012, 05:30 PM Post #18 |
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Chief Executive Officer
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I resent the flippant nature of your comments and the not-so-subtle jab at my idea of a merger to save both feds from themselves. A merger which is, in case you haven't noticed by the presence of new cards... not happening. I'm not talking about you being upset about a loss. I'm talking about you being upset about criticism. I just so happen to be criticizing the very same things that led to your loss. I can see why you'd be confused. However, you still haven't answered my question; why is it you keep acting like you're being victimised when you're just dealing with the results of your actions? Do you not understand how Roxie devalued the title? Is that the problem? It's been suggested to me that that may be the problem. I'd be more than happy to explain it again in case I wasn't clear enough the first time. Is it that you feel your "creativity" is being stamped out? Because what you call "thinking outside the box" I call clownshoes wrestling that frankly has no place in NGIW. Loon's annual snowball fight with Santa is about as silly as we get, and that NEVER has anything to do with the NGIW title. It'd be like if WWE's top titles were defended in a Jell-O match, or if the Dual Crown were to change hands in a dance-off. If you think this is pointless and going in circles then why are you running from it instead of trying to help me understand why you're so upset about this? The only thing running from a problem does is distances yourself from it for a time. What happens the next time you do something highly questionable and it gets criticized? What happens if Lana loses her title and you think it was somehow unfair? If you have a problem, explain it to me in clear terms, not with sarcasm that is IMPOSSIBLE to read on the internet, not with insane troll logic you deploy just to get a rise out of people or for shits and giggles or whyever you do it, with clear wording. Problems don't get solved by people throwing out a few petty jabs and them slamming the door as they stomp off to their room. |
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| Jo-Jo | Apr 2 2012, 05:50 PM Post #19 |
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The Snacky-Smores Guy
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Well, there goes my smile. Here's quite frankly what I'm upset about;
There's that. I mean if you were so upset with the stuff Lita was doing... ... ... I do one thing one week and suddenly this? Well, that. The quote there. I wrote it in the way that every bad service it does for the title shifts it toward Roxie. Yeah, I'm the one who wrote everything, I'm not stupid there. I'm clearly not on here going "Guys, someone totally hacked my account and wrote all that stuff!" But what it comes down to is I'm upset people are surprised this is how Roxie behaves. Yeah she's been serious about the title but again the creation of the match, in character, could be easily explained. My ultimate idea, if Roxie had won, was for her to know that's not how a champion acts. It's not something I told you because I believed it might tip the judging scale, especially with your whole "99% of the time a new champion wins if they have a quick defense to make the title come across stronger". And you already know my feelings on that. Also, as no one had come to me with problems to the match...I mean Roxie went to Ofdensen in regards to the match. Why didn't he question her there? Why didn't he try and get her to reconsider? If that's not what he wants, he certainly didn't put up a fight. The RP even ended off with a chance for Ofdensen to call her name to come back. None of that happened. If I had gotten this kind of feedback when the match was announced...then perhaps I would've changed it. Perhaps because I don't know for certain. Especially considering that the decision seemed to have an affect on the judging of the match. Not exactly fair play, but whatever. So that's it. If I didn't answer your question, then perhaps I'll try again later. Party on, Joe. ~eat snacky smores~ |
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| Minister Wighty | Apr 2 2012, 06:14 PM Post #20 |
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Chief Executive Officer
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What went on between Lita and I were misunderstandings. Time let me see them as such. It's why nothing ever happened about it, and basically the only reason.
I've made a point to be less easy on any champion since the debacle with Sarah Twilight and her FSC. It's a pretty healthy part of why you won the title in the first place, or at least what led me to have to actually make a decision instead of following with the tried and true "err on the side of the champion". But you're correct, if I had known that, then I probably would've favored Roxie more. I don't know if it would've been enough to win... but it would've made this whole affair seem much less unpalatable.
One match isn't going to kill the title. As upset at I am over the gall of it, putting the strap on a more respectable champion is about the best fix there is for this kind of situation. But as much as I think that stipulation is foolish, it's not why Roxie lost the match, lest we lose sight of that fact. Ofdensen felt similarly, and even told Roxie not to do it again. Had she won the match and then proceeded to do it again, he would've dealt with it at that time.
I make an effort not to talk to people about stuff that's effecting their characters or the match unless they approach me first. Seems too much like favoritism if I pop in and say "oh, hey, you need to do this to win your match". Not saying I haven't done it before, but I don't like it when I do and it's a habit I really try to avoid indulging in. But, again, the silly stipulation is only part of the overall scheme. The real meat of what I'm criticizing and what led to the loss of the match was "Error Messages". "Spock gets in on this debate" put the final nail in the coffin, as it were. I was pretty disappointed by what you'd put up thus far, but there was enough tongue-in-cheek nature to it, and enough outside naysaying from your own characters that I was willing to run with it, but the last two promos were just over the edge for me, and I couldn't endorse a Roxie victory with those. And again, lest we forget, I realize Roxie's loss isn't what you're upset about, but it seemed to be pertinent to the conversation. |
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3:54 AM Jul 11