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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 8 2012, 07:55 AM (318 Views) | |
| Minister Wighty | Nov 8 2012, 07:55 AM Post #1 |
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Chief Executive Officer
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Two weeks of me running shit and everything goes crazy. *laughs* Thanks to Dai, Nir, and Jay for their segments, Dai for his one match, and me for everything else because I'm awesome. Really really REALLY interesting stuff going on in all angles and I'm sad I'm going to be out of town next week that I won't really be able to keep up on it. Yes, you heard me right, I'm leaving early Saturday morning and won't return until the Saturday that follows. It's time for another Disney trip. So if you need anything from me, you want to get it within the next two days or it's basically not to be gotten. Matches were pretty obvious this week. I was a little... uhm... irked, I think is the best way to put it, at The Prince pulling back the curtain on Bloodbath's secret admirer, but it didn't really effect the outcome of the match given the relative efforts of both men. At the same time, I think I managed to cover up the possibility of Bloodbath hearing that and knowing rather nicely during their match. Was Bloodbath really hearing things? Who's to say? Maybe an audience member sounded particularly like his father. Maybe he heard Spicey among the crowd. Maybe he IS going crazy. That being said, fantastic show in every sense of the word. I'm sure the U.S. military will be very interested in hide's robotic construction... but then again I don't recall them ever giving much of a shit about Robosaurus. Thots? |
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| triadred | Nov 8 2012, 01:08 PM Post #2 |
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The Handsomest Boy in Professional Wrestling
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I'll second the entire comment. Seemed like a bit of a low blow to have Prince just so carelessly expose things like that. Didn't make me very happy at all. But whatever... it's all make believe. I didn't churn out the best of RP efforts this week because I was across the country for a few days and then took four days to drive back home. Traveling is never condusive to decent RPing! Will come out with something better this week. |
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| Mjölnir | Nov 8 2012, 02:07 PM Post #3 |
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We Live. We Die. We Live Again.
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Yeah, I generally find it in poor taste when someone seems like they're actively trying to punch holes into somebody's storyline/gimmick. Show was a fun read overall. Lots of segments, lots of storyline progression, really there's only one thing that didn't work for me. I get it's pro-wrestling, and NGIW especially has elements of more fantastical and sci-fi based themes to it...but I kind of scoffed & rolled my eyes at the mech. It was stretching my suspension of disbelief a little when hide used the mecha spider as an entrance thing and rode it to the ring. Namely helped by the fact in RPs Dai specified it isn't all that operational or graceful. It's another beast when we have a mech...fighting in a match. Unless I'm just not getting it and in reality it was something like Shockwave, the masked dude with a robot gimmick in Japan. Again, not a huge deal, but the one thing that really stood out to me from the show and took me out of it. |
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| Minister Wighty | Nov 8 2012, 03:06 PM Post #4 |
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Chief Executive Officer
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I think it's... uh... like, one-trick pony more than supreme fighting robot. Something like a glitzy, pro-wrestling appropriate version of Big Dog or that friendly spider robot... or hell, a less expensive version of Asimo or one of his contemporaries. Just a cool little throw-away and yet another prop for hide Kitazawa to build his science gimmick on. You know me, if I thought it was at all unrealistic I wouldn't have gone with it. Certainly NGIW wouldn't have funded something like this. But a privately funded/built item that has had hide feverish and sleepless for weeks/months makes sense. It answers the questions of "where has hide been" and "what has hide been up to" to help explain away Dai's moving troubles and at the same time is a fun, big return the fans would enjoy. |
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| Onslaught | Nov 8 2012, 06:27 PM Post #5 |
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Shit's Fucked Up
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Ehhhhh, sorry about the revealing Bloodbath's gimmick thing. I didn't realize that would be seen as something taboo. But on the flip side, I couldn't imagine ignoring it. The promo's showed Spicey being the voice of Bloodbath's dad, he actually appeared on camera. I thought it would have been even MORE unrealistic to have The Prince NOT mention it. I mean, if somebody is out to make a point and discredit their opponent, wouldn't that have been the perfect way for Princey to do that? He is an evil little bugger after all. But if people are really that bothered by it, we can consider it retconned. Full disclosure though, I come from environments where anything goes in promo's content wise, and "protecting people's gimmicks" was not even a consideration. The onus was on the player to protect their own gimmick and not give an opponent any leverage. It's just the culture I'm used to. |
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| Minister Wighty | Nov 8 2012, 06:41 PM Post #6 |
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Chief Executive Officer
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That's... part of the reason I'm not too pissed. Personally, I would've saved the reveal for near the apex of the storyline as to avoid intercession like that... but I think that's because I've been there, done that, and had to pick up the pieces before. That being said, I don't like to pussy-foot with people's gimmicks TOO much and at the same time I don't like seeing them shredded. This was just a few toes over that happy medium and enough for me to point out, but not enough for me to do something drastic about. |
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| Lita Maivia | Nov 8 2012, 07:09 PM Post #7 |
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The Lovely Assistant
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If I'm being completely honest (and I debated against being honest because I didn't want to hurt anybody's feelings), I also didn't get the whole mecha fight. I get why it happened but when I read it, I really had to ask myself if it was really happening. I have to agree with Nir in that it involved me suspending far too much disbelief even against our loveable resident jobber. And I love Dai and hide. I just didn't get it. I'm not sure what the Prince's goal is in messing with Lucas' matches, but if he's trying to piss him off then it's not really working. Wight conveying that Lucas is disappointed certainly matches his feelings much better and I didn't even tell Wight to do that. I'm not exactly sure where this is going, but hopefully it'll turn out good. I was shocked to see the Prince's secret revealed. I pretty much figured it out before Jay confirmed that my suspicions were true, but I'm still surprised to see that it's been outed. I get whey Cillian did the reveal (especially considering what happened afterwards) but I can't help but wonder if it would've been even BIGGER if an active competitor outed the big secret to really cement someone in a villain role around here. I don't know, that's really the only complaint I can possibly come up with about this. It's a good storyline and it's something I haven't seen before, so that's good. Curious to see where things go. |
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| Mjölnir | Nov 8 2012, 07:42 PM Post #8 |
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We Live. We Die. We Live Again.
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I think it's a bit of a difference in mindset, between two different feds. The mentality you're describing I've seen elsewhere and I suppose it's to develop a more competitive setting. Whereas the general mentality here is to develop a more engaging and/or interesting story. Not to say the other can't make them, but having been around them, they aren't typically as interesting to me, because people are clearly so worried about protecting themselves and/or attacking another handler's character. There's no give and take between handlers, only attempts at take, take, take. While I can't speak for others, in my e-fed background it was just a common decency thing, a sign of respect from one handler to another in my experiences, trust. Because, really, with the nature of pro-wrestling, if one was so inclined, they could go after anybody's gimmick and rip it apart. Or, their storyline. But then, what's the point? Best case scenario, you've damaged something, whether the character, the storyline, the gimmick, the other handler's trust, whatever. Worst case scenario, you've destroyed something and someone's upset with you over it. Possibly costing a fed a member. Nevermind that, and again might have just been my experiences, alot of the handlers I knew saw it as cheap. It was easy to knock somebody down. Yet the real challenge was not going for necessarily the easiest shot. Rather make an engaging RP that was the opponent's better and, in alot of cases, elevated both parties in being written. Like Hogan, Savage, Flair, Foley, Austin, and countless others have said, if you make your opposition look like shit & say they're shit, and you beat them, great, you're right. And, you just beat shit, congratulations. That's not to say trash talking should be avoided, it's a staple in a style of pro-wrestling promos. The key is knowing the difference. I'm not trying to say their outlook or your way is wrong, either. Simply stating my own outlook, and maybe trying to help explain why I at least have a different mentality. |
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| Onslaught | Nov 8 2012, 11:55 PM Post #9 |
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Shit's Fucked Up
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I tried to put the reveal in Kim's and Erik Holland's hands and neither took the bait. So I did it myself. I've been thinking some more about this issue with my promo on Bloodbath's gimmick. And for all of this business about protecting people's gimmicks...yeah, look I'm really not sure I can continue to be in a fed where heels are expected to tip toe around other people's gimmicks like that. The Prince is an asshole who exports his misery onto others. For him to ignore somebody's weakness when it's broadcast out in the open like that would be totally out of character for him, especially given how much of his own weakness he's projecting onto others. You guys know I like to collab as much as the next guy, but I'm used to feds where heels can be true monsters. On the flipside, I would totally be okay with somebody dragging Princey's many weaknesses out into the light for the sake of building some heat. As noted above, I actually tried to do just that. I've always been of the school that anything anyone puts in a promo is fair game, and if that content is damaging to the character and could be used against them by someone their feuding with then so be it. I don't know, I'm feeling like I may have to chalk this up to creative difference and cut out. Edit: And to comment on the fact that gimmicks aren't ever mocked in real wrestling, yeah they were. The Rock regularly ridiculed Hurricane Helms and called him The Hamburgler. The King regularly mocked Kane's whole mute shtick by calling him The Big Red Retard. Yes, Jericho and others stated you shouldn't completely tear somebody down, but mocking them openly has always been utilized to build feuds. Jericho did this himself with his infamous promo about Steph's boob job, thus embarassing her and addressing something that hadn't been publicly outed at that point. |
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| Daisuke | Nov 9 2012, 02:25 AM Post #10 |
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Who Let That Idiot Near a Computer?
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EDIT: I have considered the first part in work, and I do believe that the fact it was too OTT - even for hide - is the point. I won't lie, I'd have loved the robot spider to get over, but it didn't, and I can still use that. I think that as awesome as he is, hide is someone who needs to be taken with a pinch of salt; and when people take him too seriously, this is the kind of shit that happens.
Okay, so less robots, more feverish/sleepless hide. I can manage that. The important part of this story is not the robot. Besides, if anyone deserves to be crushed by a Scrapheap Challenge Battle Robot, it's Dan.
It's not so much damaging the character of Bloodbath that's the issue. That part, you did well enough. The problem was where you made it difficult for Adam to continue his storyline. There's the difference between the two, as I see it. |
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| Mjölnir | Nov 9 2012, 09:17 AM Post #11 |
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We Live. We Die. We Live Again.
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I... ...Didn't say they're never mocked. In fact, at the bottom of my post I spoke on that fact. There's a difference between, in this sense, mocking a character/gimmick/storyline and burying it. The examples you gave, they mocked and trash talked minor traits of the character. Did Stephanie McMahon's storyline, at the time, possibly get the wind knocked out of it's sails by Jericho's comment & video? No, it merely furthered the feud between the two of them. In the case of the Rock, the Rock also got his butt handed to him by Hurricane and let Helms one up him a few times in segments too. Again, give and take. The Rock would act like a cocky douche, and Helms in turn would get under his skin in some way. King...well, again, I never said trash talking was bad and the example you're giving is the announcer here, not a full time wrestler. A heel announcer at that, talking about a then babyface. Note that when Kane was heel, King sang his praises back then. Also, King was quick to get scared of Kane if he came by when he was a face. Again, give and take, nevermind JR being there to cut King's insults down. Again, the difference is those examples are mocking and/or trash talking something minor, if at all existent or relevant. The Bloodbath situation was taking a major point of another handler's character's storyline and possibly derailing it. With things like the Spicey situation, since we're using WWE examples, I tend to apply "TV Logic" to minor things like it, which WWE has done before too. Just because we, the "audience" are told Spicey's there, doesn't mean necessarily it's a widely acknowledged thing within kayfabe. Or, that the other characters within kayfabe are aware of him, unless Triad wanted to do something with somebody finding out and trying to tell Bloodbath. Which I suppose also brings up another good point, simply shooting him a PM asking him about a possible idea with his storyline could've saved some text and time. :P Another example similar to this situation is a while back Joe and hide were booked against each other in a match. hide commented on heavily a thought process Joe had had in a RP prior to his. Naturally as the reader, one was privy to that information, like Dai. But hide Kitazawa, the character, shouldn't have been able to be privy to such information. Unless he's a mind reader. It wasn't as potentially damaging of a thing as this, and neither situation was huge or anything, but it's moments like this and that that can break a game's mechanics. |
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| Onslaught | Nov 9 2012, 09:54 AM Post #12 |
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Shit's Fucked Up
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A thought process is actually a perfect example of something that I've always found confusing to put in a promo. I think it confuses the line between what can and cannot be used in an opponent's rebuttal. Should Dai have logically been able to critique a thought process? No, not logically. But my argument would have been, why was that thought process included in the promo to begin with? Can we SEE a thought process? Does a TV camera capture that? No. It's my same beef with people who do things off camera and then scream and tantrum "YOU COULDN'T REFER TO THAT! IT WAS OFF CAMERA!!" Well....uh, sorry sweetcheeks but if it was off camera we should not have been able to read about it in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I'm sorry triad was upset, and he can take this as a public apology from me. I truly am sorry you felt like I ruined your storyline and I am 100% okay with Wighty retconning the offending promos out of existence. I don't want to contribute to a negative play experience. But for me, and my play style, ignoring things that happen on camera just doesn't make sense to me. I get "kayfabe" and all that, but ignoring his angle would have meant ignoring the majority of his recent promo work. I'm a little leery going forward because now I'm going to feel like "so even though my character just saw this happening on television, is someone going to get upset with me for referring to it." I just assume that if people blatantly put it in a promo its fair game, but now I know I can't assume that. I wouldn't have done it if I thought somebody would be pissed. But I thought because we were allowed to see it it would be okay to reference. And on my end everything I have ever written I have considered fair game. Lita mentioned that she had put the pieces together on Princey's big reveal out of character. And honestly, that was purposeful. I've been dropping hints the whole time. And if someone's character had come out before the official reveal and said, "What the fuck, were you abused?" I absolutely would have been fine with it because I gave you guys that. But nobody did it, possibly because they understood an unwritten rule that I didn't. So...yeah...*whew*. I'll wait for Wighty to weigh in and see what's what. And for the record, I think the robot spider was awesome. But then again I come from a fed that once had two characters duke it out with fighting robots. :) |
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| Sqweaktoy | Nov 9 2012, 10:05 AM Post #13 |
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The Boy
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For the record, that robot spider was super bad ass. A little over the top, but I don't care at all, because it was awesome. EDIT: Also, show was good or some such. Robot Spider. |
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| Minister Wighty | Nov 9 2012, 12:32 PM Post #14 |
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Chief Executive Officer
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*sighs* Well, I suppose I did tell you all that if you needed anything you should get to it in the next two days... I was gonna do one of those big 'quote from every post to be specific' things that I sometimes do when shit hits the fan (as it has done here in such glorious fashion) but I just don't feel it's necessary. Both sides of this discussion make good points, and both sides of this discussion have some holes in them. I'll try to be as thorough as I can without being too long-winded. 1. Was The Prince pointing out the linchpin in Bloodbath's gimmick bad? - - A. Yes. But! Given the manner in which it was done I would say it's much less an example of what we around here refer to as "Grant Rice"ing somebody as it was a very tacky jab. Sometimes those can play off really well, such as some number of moons ago when Dante Coles assaulted Rob Zombie when looking for Graver, or anytime anyone points out that Giggles has kind of gone soft in his old age. It's a cheap shot, but completely legal. - - B. If Adam wanted to preserve the sanctity of this angle he probably shouldn't have told us it was Spicey from the get-go. I can buy that Bloodbath doesn't watch his own promos and that none of the interns or management mentioned it to him (as perhaps they thought it was part of a work between Bloodbath and Spicey, since NGIW DOES have those from time to time, Zero Rush being a prime example) but somewhere EVENTUALLY someone was going to turn it against him. I know I myself had a hard time stumbling around the point in a recent roleplay I wrote for Markon as it's such juicy low-hanging fruit that it's hard not to pick from the perspective of a heel. Had it not been the Prince, then I could've seen the same coming from another heel such as Kursur, or even a heated rival like Joe Stanton. How could this have been better prevented by Adam? Well, Jay outlined a decent scenario above. I alluded to a similar idea earlier in this thread. I'm not saying "it's Adam's fault for not being more secretive!" but it was definitely a factor when I judged whether or not I should be mad, or Jay should be punished. Further to the point, whether or not it was implied that this part of the gimmick not be touched, it was never asked. ... and quite frankly as I sit here and think about it I can't help but assume that Adam requesting nobody point out the very obvious lodestone to his powerful gimmick (in terms of roleplay weight) would not go over very well for very long. - - C. The offending remark was certainly not so bad as to destroy Bloodbath's entire gimmick. I happened to think of a way to cast doubt into it within ten minutes. I've thought of many other options since then. I'm sure Adam could've done the same as he's a very intelligent man. It's a speed bump. A road block. A hiccup. Nothing Adam can't overcome with minimal effort and perhaps even build a few promos on. Bloodbath wonders if it IS Spicey behind the voices and confronts him. Spicey acts like the greasy snake oil salesman that he is. Bloodbath goes along with it but doesn't trust him, Spicey invests in a loudspeaker to help cement his plans or learns how to throw his voice. There. There's another one. I literally JUST came up with that. 2. Should off-camera or internal information be permissible? No. It shouldn't be brought up in roleplays. But at the same time I wonder if it should be posted at all. We come back to the three different realities this e-fed encompasses; the in-game in-kayfabe, the in-game out-of-kayfabe, and then the out-of-game. In two of those three scenarios, there is no reason for off-camera or internal monologue type information to exist. I myself have written some flashbacks. These were in-game out-of-kayfabe recorded elsewhere on a soundstage and edited in in post. The same with "thought pattern" style voice-overs where a character is doing something innocuous while thinking about the match/situation. If the viewer can see/hear it, so too can the opponent. If the viewer can't... ... why are we posting it? Yes, it can help to add depth to the storyline so that we, the out-of-game audience, can have a better understanding of the situation but I would argue that the product as a whole would be better presented if it were implied in the actual text of the promo/segment itself. If you have something you need a specific party to know, PM it to them. Even if it's multiple specific parties. If there's a point you want to make or something you want to get across about your character that you don't want your opponents to use but you want people to be made aware of, mention it in feedback or in general chat. Talk about it on MSN or again, via PM. The same goes for vice-versa, not that that's an issue here. Early on in Zero Rush's career Nir figured out that Zero was Horus (as I'm sure many of you did) and PMed me about doing an ironic promo where Joe Stanton sits and talks with Horus about how much he hates Zero. However, this was something he approached me about out-of-game and this notion stayed there. Joe never pointed at Zero and said "you're Horus, aren't you?" despite the fact that he had such knowledge. I can only assume Jay would do something similar if he'd managed to deduce Spicey were the man behind the curtain without Adam directly revealing it in promos. There's respecting the sanctity of kayfabe and a person's gimmick, there's breaking the suspension of disbelief to get in a jab and deflate someone's character... and then there's taking pot shots at an obvious target. 3. Shouldn't Jay respect our ways, as an outsider? Ehhhhhhh... yes and no. This is something that gets talked about a lot in tabletop roleplaying circles and usually has to do with the DM and the players. I reckon it works the same way for a GM and wrestlers. Yes, you are essentially God of your little microcosm. Yes, what you say goes. Yes, there is no game without you. But you ALSO have no game to run without your players. The same goes for this situation; yes, we like our comfortable little creative writing circle with about a quarter edge of competition, but if we ever want to expand our roster beyond "the same half dozen guys and an occasional straggler from FIW/The Good Old Days" we're going to have to compromise a bit. Up to this point Jay has been more than willing to accept "the way we do things". I don't feel like bringing up the specific threads as I have better ways to spend my last day at home before the trip, but he has conceded to heavy romance storylines being both popular and rewarded. He's even sort of engaging in one. He did his best to work WITH Joe Wilson when he was arguably at his most contrary. He has very much acclimated well to NGIW's way of life on big issues that are intrinsic to the fed. To draw so much attention and derision to what I will remind everyone was little more than a single line of dialogue in a roleplay when it isn't even against our actual rules; only kind of frowned upon is asinine. This is not to say that he (nor anybody) should go around big booting everyone else's gimmicks in the nards, but it IS to say that this minor offense in the face of everything he's been rather accommodating about should not be the last straw. Again, I know long-time NGIW roleplayers who would've done something similar under the right circumstances. Are we always a competitive fed? No. We are not. But look back at our history. When things get competitive, people get DIRTY, and so long as the obvious lines drawn in the rules and the most obvious of basic niceties are not crossed everybody still gets to go home happy. Up until now we have not bent to welcome an outsider. He has bent for us. We can bend here, especially over something so minor. It looks good, and might bring us more players in the long run. I love our little community, but as Joe Stanton rightly points out we can only live with hide and Bloodbath in the main event for so long. Or Joe Stanton and Lucas Torres. Or Erik Holland and The Prince. 4. Giant Robot Spider... whaaaaaaaaat? I was a little skeptical when Dai first presented me with the idea, but I shrugged it off. It's realistically feasible, it's a one-off sorta thing, and it makes sense for hide's character. Is it a little out there? Yeah. But we're talking about an industry where Kane shoots fire and the Christian god himself acted as Shawn Michaels' tag-team partner, attacking Vince McMahon with heavenly lightning. To hit a little closer to home, in FIW Tier was frequently known to levitate and force choke people during his "God of Violence" gimmick and Rock, Kotoha, Kursur, and Havok are all inter-dimensional travelers. Furthermore one of them is a robot, one is a power ranger, and one is a wizard. I respect that it might not be any given person's cup of tea. It's not really mine, but NGIW can use some fun and bombastic moments now and then. Especially when they don't hurt anybody's heat/gimmick. |
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| Mjölnir | Nov 9 2012, 02:31 PM Post #15 |
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We Live. We Die. We Live Again.
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I guess, again, this is a difference in upbringing from my end. Things like thought process and off camera events were generally accepted where I started...because we treated it like a show. Not like a wrestling show, like a show show, Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Supernatural, Dexter, and so on. Like how WWE has tried, from time to time, to project and like how TNA sometimes tries. Something off camera was, in the characters' reality, off camera. But from the perspective of the audience watching at home, it wasn't, they saw it. Same with thought processes, ghosts, and all sorts of other things. It was apart of the show, and because of the nature of it, the characters were unaware of it within their show's reality, or their "kayfabe". That's how I've always treated and seen things like this, even in NGIW. Why I can rationalize Robert Morgan being haunted by a possible ghost, outside the show, it's an actor/wrestler. Within the reality of the show, it's either a part of his demented mind and/or an undead spirit. I suppose partially the reason why I never felt the need to really vocalize such things before on the board is because...well, NGIW pretty much says it's that on the tin. In the rules, FAQ, and all that junk it generally promotes this image of what NGIW is. It's an attempt at mixing elements of reality TV, drama TV, and pro-wrestling together. Another example, the Aizawa and Markon RP that Wighty had us do a while back. While it would be perceived by the characters of the show as happening "off camera", I imagined the audience at home being able to see it. And, while again I don't think the issue is a major one, and I do agree with you, Wighty, I feel one point should be made. I'm an outsider too. Sure, I generally got along with everyone here well and took a place within the community, I like to think. But I'm not from around these parts, I didn't get my start at FIW, I didn't get to experience NGIW from the beginning. And, there are some differences, some minor and some major, from what I was used to compared to NGIW. Admittedly it's one of the feds I've seen that's closest to what I had known, and it's why I joined it, but I'm ultimately not in that different of a position than Jay. So it's not like it's some old veteran of the place attacking him. Or, even a fellow newish person attacking him, really. As I'm not trying to attack him at all. |
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| Onslaught | Nov 9 2012, 02:51 PM Post #16 |
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Shit's Fucked Up
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That was very fair and made me feel better about hanging around. Thank you. Sorry this turned into a "thing". Now I have to go and deal with a shitty real life day. :( |
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| Daisuke | Nov 9 2012, 04:29 PM Post #17 |
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Who Let That Idiot Near a Computer?
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I am completely fine with accepting the reaction to the Spider as 'mixed' and dealing with it. It's cool, but overboard. It makes sense for hide, and as long as I as a writer accept that it's a bit daft and not just total awesomesauce, I can still do stuff with it. |
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| Minister Wighty | Nov 9 2012, 09:22 PM Post #18 |
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Chief Executive Officer
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See, I see those as two different things. While in-kayfabe Robert Morgan can be followed around by a ghost and that's totally believable given the defined parameters of the show, seeing promos that supposedly weren't taped in a world that's ostensibly supposed to take place in the same world you exist in just starts to raise too many questions. |
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| Mjölnir | Nov 9 2012, 10:25 PM Post #19 |
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We Live. We Die. We Live Again.
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How so? Are the True Blood cast, in character, aware they're being filmed? Or, is it even considered being "filmed" by them? Naturally the actors and actresses are aware, but to Bill Compton, there are no cameras. That's how I treat off camera pieces. I suppose I don't see the difference as at their core, it's the same principal. They, off camera segments and Robert's issue, are both things that are written and seen by the audience, but not acknowledged on camera. I guess I don't see the issue as this is a promotion that widely accepts ghosts, killers, demons, aliens, time and space jumpers, magical super heroes, cyborgs, crazy mad scientists... While some realism is appreciated, it isn't like alot of the gimmicks in pro-wrestling, and in NGIW by extension, are exactly Christopher Nolan's vision. That said, I wouldn't want us to suddenly have Kitazawa flying through space in a gigantic robot dino, discovering new races of beings to punch in the head. |
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| Onslaught | Nov 9 2012, 10:59 PM Post #20 |
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Shit's Fucked Up
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No offense, but I don't think its possible for me to disagree with a statement more. :D |
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3:54 AM Jul 11