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Tier Project: Fire Red and Leaf Green
Topic Started: Jan 3 2012, 06:59 PM (5,143 Views)
aweshucks
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Master
I'm attempting to create a tier for the best pokemon to use in a fire red or leaf green nuzlocke. for more information, please look at the comments on this thread. This is a very very very very very very very rough draft, simply based on what I think. It is basically just to get something down and will change drastically once we look into it more. the key to this is what the community thinks, and as such your input is extremely helpful

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Edited by aweshucks, Jan 4 2012, 08:38 PM.
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X-Naut
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Alright, I took one glance at it and I can already see why there are so many "very's". I can see two big problems with it:
1. There are no tiers.
2. The ordering isn't very good. Butterfree and Raticate at the bottom? Onix high? No... just, no.

I'm going to take a crack at this later on.
Edited by X-Naut, Jan 3 2012, 07:11 PM.
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aweshucks
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yeah I put this together in about five minutes just to have something down. I'll make it better tomorrow. anyway, although butterfree and raticate are easy catches, they are very bad later in the game, while onix is pretty good, but yeah, it should be lower and butterfree and raticate should be higher
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tawp64
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I...made a thread on this. Not that I think tiering is okay anymore, but here it is: Here

Search before making a thread next time.
"If you can't slam with the best, then jam with the rest." ~Charles Barkley
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X-Naut
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I'm surrounded by idiots...
That thread's really outdated and doesn't cover any specific game, though. If we're going to make a serious list, we may as well start fresh.
Some non-Pokemon runs

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Cheery Pie
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Starmie has really amazing coverage, stats, and its typing isn't bad either. I'd rate it much higher.
Though Hypno lacks in offense compared to Kadabra, it's way more bulky and fullly evolved as well.
Onix is indeed lacking in some departments, I agree it shouldn't be so high, especially since it can't evolve.
Butterfree with Sleep Powder is really valuable, especially because it is so much faster than Parasect with only 2.5%(?) chance to miss. Add Dream Eater in there and you're golden.

Those are just some initial thoughts.
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White Chaos
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[untitled]

I would seperate the tiers in divisions.

Top Tier, where the Starters, Gyarados, Lapras, Zapdos, Eevee and maybe Raticate + Butterfree would belong.

High Tier, where Raticate, Butterfree, Magneton and Snorlax would belong

Middle Tier, where nice Pokemon like Electrode and Golem would place, but they either have a bad typing, outclassed or hard to find.

Low Tier, where stuff are hard to use and hard to find. Most of the time, you need overgrinding to use them or they take a miracle to use correctly. Tauros, Beedrill and Chansey come to mind.

Bottom Tier, where you can't use this Pokemon unless you extremely overgrind. Also known as Ditto Tier.
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LightningLord2
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I think I cover only the two highest tiers, because they're the most important:

Top Tier: Pokemon that can contribute outstanding merits across the whole game.
Bulbasaur (breezes through early game, later in the game, where it cannot attack as well, its support power begins to shine)
Squirtle (can clear most of the early game quite handily and help out with strong coverage and HMs if necessary)
Eevee (evolves into three different strong Pokemon that help you cover weaknesses)
Nidoran-m (fully evolves early and can dish out a lot with its powerful learnset and getting Megahorn in the lategame)
Nidoran-w (nearly the same as above, but getting Body Slam instead of Megahorn, better as support but worse as attacker)
Snorlax (simply the best special wall in the game, also coming at a high level)
Abra (super-high special attack from the get-go, gets the still overpowered STAB Psychic as there isn't really much in-game to counter it still and is also very fast. Requires a minor bit of grinding to be useful, though, and is hard to catch.)
Zapdos (high stats across the board and comes at Level 50, right after you get Surf, best electric-type in the game)
High Tier: Pokemon that are useful most of the game.
Charmander (lacks early usefulness, but the good attacking stats make it very useful still)
Rattata (high attack and STAB on Normal, getting Hyper Fang early and Super Fang later on make it a fierce sweeper early and still a good help in the late-game)
Dratini (needs a good amount of training, but Dragon Rage does some notable damage early on and Thunder Wave + Wrap make a nice support, if you get Dragonite, you have the strongest physical attack power in the game)
Caterpie (Evolves into Butterfree in nearly no time and gets highly accurate status, but the many weaknesses, lack of recovery moves and limited attacking moves make it not as useful in the late-game)
Gastly (requires a lot of skill, but the plethora of status attacks and high special attack make it versatile. Mind that it is very frail, making it fail against opponents it can't outspeed)
Edited by LightningLord2, Jan 4 2012, 06:14 AM.
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Day Maker
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I'd put Alakazam (I allowed my Kadabra to evolve (I would have done it the right way but for it being emulated)) in top teir as well. Mostly because anything which isn't Dark or Steel with good special defense will be knocked out by it in one hit.

Also, I'd put Dugtrio in high teir. Becuase where it is useful (3rd gym, and still is for a while after) it is beastly with its attack stat.
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White Chaos
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[untitled]

Yeah, Dugtrio should be atleast High Tier. You have 100% of finding it or it's pre-evolution. It comes with STAB and you can train it right of the bat on the 3rd Gym, so no need for grinding. If you were to grind, the route to the right of the cave has a Worker who has (if memory servers) 2 Magnemite and a Magneton giving at least 1000 EXP per battle. As long as you stay over 20 HP the Magnemites cannot touch you (there's a Pokemon Center 30 seconds away from you, use it).

It lacks in the 4th Gym and a bit in Team Rocket battles (can't hit Zubats and Koffings, but can hit Ekans), then it gets a huge amount of training in the Cycling Road, Koga and the route right of Fuschia with the Bikers. Your bound to find a Biker who only trains Grimers so you can grind on if necessary.

By doing so, you have a decent chance against Sabrina (honestly everything in the game has at best a decent chance against Sabrina, bar the Legendary Birds, Snorlax and maybe Hypno). He sweeps through Blaine if needed, and can help against Giovanni's Nido's.

He starts to lack at the Elite Four, as the only thing he would want to hit is Arbok. He does serve as a Revenge Killer if needed. Against Blue, it can dispatch of Arcanine and maybe Alakazam if you get lucky. If you teach it Rock Slide, it can make quick work of Pidgeot and Charizard.

As you see, it's amazing once you get it, dims away early Mid Game, comes back to shine late Mid Game, and then droops during the End Game, thus not being Top Tier.
Edited by White Chaos, Jan 4 2012, 06:41 AM.
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Day Maker
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Most people's reactions to me.
On Sabrina, I beat her just spamming Bite.

The two I used had really good special attack. (Fine, the Arcanine was Impish, but it worked).
And as for Mankey, I couldn't say top or high teir. Mostly because the one I had died. But still, it's quite nice for the early game for Fighting type moves. And Brock's Onix.
Arcanine is also really good. Though rareenough and love to spam Roar, it is good for fast attacking, and I'd put it at high personally, but the issue is that most of its attacks work off the lesser attack stat.

(In case you're wondering, I'm giving my experience of FR in this, and I only used 10 really in that run.)
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X-Naut
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Well, after some thought here's my take on the tier list.

Spoiler: click to toggle
Some non-Pokemon runs

If I were a Pokemon...
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White Chaos
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[untitled]

Pikachu should be Low Tier for the same reason Clefairy is, it's too hard to rare. Even if you do catch it, you have to baby it since it can't train on Brock (it can against Bug Mons though I guess) then it gets some training from Route 4, having Flying Types and all. Mt. Moon becomes hard as many things are resistant to your STAB (Geodude, Onix, Magnemite, Voltorb, Sandshrew) and since Pikachu is so frail, it could die while training it.

Sure, you have a decent chance against Misty when using it, but unless you grind to Level 26 for T-Bolt (which I forget if he gets it in this game, been playing too much Gen IV), he can't OHKO Starmie, and get risked getting 2HKO'd, Critted, or Confused by the star. He gets no training in Gym 3 and 4, he barely does anything in Rock Tunnel. Then by the time you get to Celadon, you have a (slightly, just slightly) less bulkier Electric Sweeper with more offensive stats and speed (in the form of Jolteon)

Honestly, Pikachu is only good around Mid Early Game, then I would drop it for another Pokemon. I mean unless you want a Flareon or Vaporeon, the only reason you would get a Pikachu, is for natural T-Wave, more ATK for Brick Break and Dig (which it shouldn't be doing) and for a natural STAB move.

I think Nidoran should be bumped to high tier, I'll get my reasons later.


Oh yeah this is what I think ___ Game is

Early Game: Start - Brock
Mid Early: Mt. Moon - Misty
Late Early:S.S Anne - Rock Tunnel

Early Mid: Erika,Game Corner Team Rocket, Rival in Lavender and Routes around Celadon
Late Mid: Koga, Sabrina, Silph Co. and that whole loop that connects Lavender, Fuscha and Celadon

End Game: Blaine - Champion
Edited by White Chaos, Jan 4 2012, 07:33 AM.
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Doesnt
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1000000000000 rivals

Should nuzlocking tier lists really be determined by rarity? I get why the in-game tier lists at Smogon use rarity to rate things, as they focus on getting through the game quickly and spending time hunting down a rare mon is not quick, but in a nuzlocke where you can only catch one thing, is that Tauros you miraculously caught any worse because it wasn't very likely that you'd catch it? Not to mention I see Starmie up there, and you need the Super Rod for that...which is about the same point in the game you enter the Safari Zone. Aerodactyl is higher even, and it comes *after* the Safari Zone, and requires grinding.

That said, this looks mostly good, except for the fact that Chansey, Tauros and Kangaskhan are Low Tier. Chansey I can sort of see being there, since there aren't many pure special attackers and she needs Irons to not vaporize to tackle, but it looks like the three were put there simply due to being rare Safari Zone mons.
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White Chaos
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[untitled]

Well, I assumed we were rating by rarity as well. If not, then that Tauros can skimmy up to High Tier. Having beefy ATK and SPD with Intimidate to boot.
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aweshucks
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The more i think about it, the more I realize that a tier is pretty stupid. feel free to do your own, but I'm out
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dayafter
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Here's my interpretation:
It probably isn't the best


Changes I've made have been bolded

Right. Before I get torn apart, give me a chance to explain myself.

I'm not sure rarity should really be considered within these tiers, as in a nuzlocke you can only catch one Pokemon, and it's mostly down to luck.

Tauros has been moved to high tier, due to it's high attack and speed, and access to lots of powerful attacks. Also yay intimidate.

Similarly, Kangaskhan has been moved up a level due to it's strength, and very wide movepool.

Magikarp has been moved down a tier, I did this because, although it's very easy to find, and Gyarados is a veritable killing machine, It's a pain in the ass to grind up to level 20, and can be easily wiped out by almost all early-game pokemon. Also, switch-grinding can prove dangerous to other team members.

Venonat has been moved up, as Venomoth is also a powerful status-inducing Pokemon, however due to it's psychic-weakness, I kept it below Caterpie.

Pikachu has been moved down, for the reasons discussed beforehand.

Geodude has ALSO been moved down, as, although Golem is very powerful, its low speed, and vulnerability to some of the most common types in the game mean that it can be very hard to make one work.

Both Nidoran have been moved up, as they have proven time and time again that they are extremely powerful allies to have by your side in a Nuzlocke, due to their high attacking stats, and HUGE movepool.

Abra has also been moved up, due to it's impressive stats, and relative ease to level up, also because it only has to get to level 16, which is relatively close to the level you find it at in the wild.

Like I said. This is my personal interpretation, please feel free to change it more.
Edited by dayafter, Jan 4 2012, 10:54 AM.


Oh no I have an art thread too now

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LightningLord2
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Conqueror of the Mauville Gym
Move up Abra - It takes some work to get it to level 16 (not much though), however, everyone remembers how broken Alakazam was in Gen I, and you need to realise the lack of Darks and Steels (Magnemite/ton doesn't show up often) in that game - that thing is a Genocide Machine.
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dayafter
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The takeover will be hostile

I was considering moving Abra up actually, not sure why I didn't, probably something to do with low defense, but it's speed and high special stats make up for that.

Magnemite, I also considered, but, I think it should maybe stay where it is, due to its 4X weakness to ground type attacks, which are pretty common in this gen.

EDIT: I moved Abra up a tier.
Edited by dayafter, Jan 4 2012, 10:55 AM.


Oh no I have an art thread too now

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Mattman324
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dayafter
Jan 4 2012, 10:37 AM
Here's my interpretation:
It probably isn't the best


Changes I've made have been bolded

Right. Before I get torn apart, give me a chance to explain myself.

I'm not sure rarity should really be considered within these tiers, as in a nuzlocke you can only catch one Pokemon, and it's mostly down to luck.

Tauros has been moved to high tier, due to it's high attack and speed, and access to lots of powerful attacks. Also yay intimidate.

Similarly, Kangaskhan has been moved up a level due to it's strength, and very wide movepool.

Magikarp has been moved down a tier, I did this because, although it's very easy to find, and Gyarados is a veritable killing machine, It's a pain in the ass to grind up to level 20, and can be easily wiped out by almost all early-game pokemon. Also, switch-grinding can prove dangerous to other team members.

Venonat has been moved up, as Venomoth is also a powerful status-inducing Pokemon, however due to it's psychic-weakness, I kept it below Caterpie.

Pikachu has been moved down, for the reasons discussed beforehand.

Geodude has ALSO been moved down, as, although Golem is very powerful, its low speed, and vulnerability to some of the most common types in the game mean that it can be very hard to make one work.

Both Nidoran have been moved up, as they have proven time and time again that they are extremely powerful allies to have by your side in a Nuzlocke, due to their high attacking stats, and HUGE movepool.

Abra has also been moved up, due to it's impressive stats, and relative ease to level up, also because it only has to get to level 16, which is relatively close to the level you find it at in the wild.

Like I said. This is my personal interpretation, please feel free to change it more.
TOP TIER IMPRESSIONS:

Bulbasaur, Vaporeon, Squirtle, Jolteon, Snorlax, Lapras... looks good. These six are indeed murder.

HIGH TIER:

Jynx, Charmander, Mankey, Spearow, Diglett, Staryu, Magnemite, the Nidorans, and Abra I get.

Tauros I get, but it's kind of rare.

Gastly I get... BUT. It only really has three good moves (Psychic, Thunderbolt, Giga Drain) offensively, and maaaybe is one tier to high.

Pidgey is overrated. I used one the whole game once. It did nothing Golbat or Spearow or Dodrio cannot do. One tier to high.

CATERPIE. Oh lord. I know half of you will hate me because of this, but IT'S NOT THAT GOOD. Yes, Petty beat the game with one. Yes, Ampharos beat the game with one. Yes, *insert name* used it well. BUT IT IS SO INFERIOR TO SO MUCH ELSE. It sucks away both your one Giga Drain and Psychic TM, probably your Substitute tutor, and a lot of other stuff... to be decent with an accurate sleep powder. Gee, if I wanted that, I'd go for Parasect. One tier to high.


MID TIER:

Oddish, Magicarp, Bellsprout, Meowth, Sandshrew, Hitmonchan, Growlithe, Voltorb, Psyduck, Shellder, Venonat, and Kangaskhan seem right.

The rest (Doduo, Hitmonlee, Slowpoke, Drowsee, Tentacool, and Flareon) are much better. Dodou is the best flying type in the game BARRING LEGENDARIES, including Charizard. Hitmonlee is a great fighting type. Slowbro gets a great movepool (FLAMETHROWER?) Drowsee is a good psychic type, Tentacool is ubercommon with great SpD, and Flareon... I could do a good rant on it, but Shadow Ball/Flamethrower/Quick Attack/Dig goes a long way on reusable TMs.
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