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ELECTION 2012
Topic Started: Nov 7 2012, 04:50 AM (910 Views)
Nikkisaur
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Lukie-K
Nov 9 2012, 02:28 AM
Why do stupid people I know care more about American politics than our own politics

fuck you stupid cabbages
Read up on what the Spanish president is like and what hes doing....thats what the US would be like with Romney in power.

Just recently a 52 yr old woman threw herself out of her window to her death due to the bank repossessing her home. Here, if your bank takes your home you end up homeless and still expected to pay the rest of the mortgage. So people have just resorted to suicide. Unemployment between 25-50 is at 25% and 51% of 16-20yrs olds cant find work. People have worked in jobs for 30 yrs, been kicked out due to the recession then had their homes taken away with only 1000 euros left to pay, with kids without its all the same to them. AND on top of that, the reason why we are suffering here...is all the banks fault. They stole, they over spent and we get to pay them out of it.

The government has taken away ALL work rights, leaving us with a handfull of human rights, all of which are basically ignored. They want to take away our free health care and make it so that if we have no work we have no rights to medical care.

So yeah I have a good reason to have an opinion. That Romney dude had Rajoy (spanish president) written all over him.
Feed the rich and slaughter the poor. Afrter all like Rajoy said, they deserve more money they have worked for it. TWAT
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Nikkisaur
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Spain would make China proud.
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yossy
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Nikkisaur
Nov 11 2012, 12:41 AM
Lukie-K
Nov 9 2012, 02:28 AM
Why do stupid people I know care more about American politics than our own politics

fuck you stupid cabbages
Read up on what the Spanish president is like and what hes doing....thats what the US would be like with Romney in power.

Just recently a 52 yr old woman threw herself out of her window to her death due to the bank repossessing her home. Here, if your bank takes your home you end up homeless and still expected to pay the rest of the mortgage. So people have just resorted to suicide. Unemployment between 25-50 is at 25% and 51% of 16-20yrs olds cant find work. People have worked in jobs for 30 yrs, been kicked out due to the recession then had their homes taken away with only 1000 euros left to pay, with kids without its all the same to them. AND on top of that, the reason why we are suffering here...is all the banks fault. They stole, they over spent and we get to pay them out of it.

The government has taken away ALL work rights, leaving us with a handfull of human rights, all of which are basically ignored. They want to take away our free health care and make it so that if we have no work we have no rights to medical care.

So yeah I have a good reason to have an opinion. That Romney dude had Rajoy (spanish president) written all over him.
Feed the rich and slaughter the poor. Afrter all like Rajoy said, they deserve more money they have worked for it. TWAT
that shit's actually fucked up.

immigrate to ɐılɐɹʇsnɐ

probs the best country to live. like, really
the original, the only, yossy
accept no substitute.
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qwertyuio
 
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nate
 
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If it's not Enough

Nikkisaur
Nov 11 2012, 12:41 AM
Lukie-K
Nov 9 2012, 02:28 AM
Why do stupid people I know care more about American politics than our own politics

fuck you stupid cabbages
Read up on what the Spanish president is like and what hes doing....thats what the US would be like with Romney in power.

Just recently a 52 yr old woman threw herself out of her window to her death due to the bank repossessing her home. Here, if your bank takes your home you end up homeless and still expected to pay the rest of the mortgage. So people have just resorted to suicide. Unemployment between 25-50 is at 25% and 51% of 16-20yrs olds cant find work. People have worked in jobs for 30 yrs, been kicked out due to the recession then had their homes taken away with only 1000 euros left to pay, with kids without its all the same to them. AND on top of that, the reason why we are suffering here...is all the banks fault. They stole, they over spent and we get to pay them out of it.

The government has taken away ALL work rights, leaving us with a handfull of human rights, all of which are basically ignored. They want to take away our free health care and make it so that if we have no work we have no rights to medical care.

So yeah I have a good reason to have an opinion. That Romney dude had Rajoy (spanish president) written all over him.
Feed the rich and slaughter the poor. Afrter all like Rajoy said, they deserve more money they have worked for it. TWAT
Holy fuck, Nikki.

._.
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You had my heart
At least for the most part
'Cause everybody's got to die
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We fell apart
Let's make a new start
'Cause everybody's got to die
Sometime

But baby don't cry
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Gyarados
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i am a BIG dumb guy

Though I don't usually speak much about politics, probably due to the fact that I'm absolutely fucking clueless, everthing Nikki said is true. Spain is an absolute political shithole right now, with no bright future in sight.

The only problem is, most of the Spaniards expect someone to come iin and fix the country's economy in a single term, which just can't happen, which leaves everyone complaining about how incompetent the politicians here are.

That said, my second paragraph would only have a point somewhere within it's profound confines if the politicians here actually did anything to help. Nikki might seem extreme, but she's not exagerating at all. There's only corruption to be found here, and not on a conspiracy theorist level, but on a "Yeah I'm rendering many citizen's homeless, but I just don't give a shit" level.

So, Spain's fucked right now. I would say more, but I am actually quite drunk right now, which is the only time I will ever talk about politics, so don't expect anything else.

You fuckers better appreciate this post! You have no idea how many times I've gone over it to make sure it's written properly. ABOUT FIVE TIMES!
Edited by Gyarados, Nov 11 2012, 04:08 AM.
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BrianAFC
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lol spain has nowhere near the resources the US has, and if the spanish government hadn't given so many entitlements to begin with, it wouldn't be in its current collapse

romney's proposed trying to prevent the US from becoming spanish-- we're reaching the point in our Malthusian scale where there's too little money to support the entitlements for such a large and exponentially expanding population.

Obama has a nice moral stand point.

I put it like this:

The country had hemorrhaging wound in the throat (the economy), and a tiny scrape on its knee (moral issues). We took it to the hospital, and asked the people whether we thought the country needed a band-aid for the knee or a cure for the hemorrhage. We chose the band-aid.


honestly, I don't think Mit Romney was good enough to stop the bleeding. Ron Paul had the only plan that could do so. But at least mit wasn't going to keep stabbing it in the throat.




Anyway, people who EXPECT health care, social security, etc. are complete idiots. Seriously. "Wait, you mean I have to PAY for medical care? I have to PAY for birth control? THAT ISN'T FAIR! WAHH! You mean I have to PAY for loans? You mean I have to PAY for my house?"

People just don't get it. Buying a house, medicine, or whatever are the same as buying juice packs or tables. You wouldn't expect your job or government to pay for those, why expect it to pay for anything else? Especially when it's more in debt than every individual in the western hemisphere combined. To expect that of the US government is to expect poor kids on the street to give YOU the money. You already have military protection, public schools, and a justice system. For christ sake, people.

So WHAT if the rich are rich? Are you really going to be pissed someone is making more money than you? And then ask your government to take more from them so that you can pay less? Bahaha. Come on. That's childish, and even more unfair than before. It's not as if you're going to pay any less taxes if the rich are taxed, EVERYONE is going to be paying more taxes. It's just the rich will be paying EVEN MORE than everyone else.

Let's just do a flat tax, no?

Anyway, the funny thing about the rich is that they see things as costs v. benefits, and if taxes are increased for them here, I'm sure they'll be happy to ditch the US and go to a country with a better offer. People forget that in a global economy, countries are in constant competition for industry, and industry has no shortage of places to be... there's thousands of countries and islands that take American Express, after all.

But the worst part of all, to me, isn't even the hemorrhaging deficit, or the failing American Industry. To me the biggest blemish in America is that we've come to a point where we look at to candidates.. and hate both of them. We have to pick from the lesser of to evils. We're settling-- these president's jobs are to KEEP AMERICA IN CHECK. LOOK AT THE DEFICIT. When you see that something is 'recovering' you shouldn't be pleased, you should be PISSED that it isn't fix. They ARE NOT DOING THEIR JOBS. When the economy is fixed, that is an Administration. Not a good Administration, or a bad Administration. JUST AN ADMINISTRATION.

when that administration cures aids, makes peace with all countries everywhere, or manages to have trillion dollar surpluses... THEN it's a GOOD administration.


urgh that wasn't eloquent at all. I'm getting lazy.

god people are complete idiots. especially Keynesians.
Edited by BrianAFC, Nov 11 2012, 04:39 AM.
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Don't be so hard on yourself, Brian; I thought it was quite eloquent.
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You had my heart
At least for the most part
'Cause everybody's got to die
Sometime

We fell apart
Let's make a new start
'Cause everybody's got to die
Sometime

But baby don't cry
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Nikkisaur
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Thats over there, over here in Europe it is one of our human rights to have free medical care. Hell in Spain during Franco's reign as all time facist badass you entered a pharmacy with your prescription, handed it over, recieved your meds and walked out. There was no paying for even medicine.

No one understands here the concept of having to pay to be treated medically. Neither does Obama seeing as his mother was treated in England free on our NHS and treat very well. He did want to reform the system over there. I dont see why not. The taxes the government retain from our wages pay for that service. So why should we pay more? If I have no money why should I die because Im refused treatment? Its barbaric whether you think so or not.
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Hall&Oats
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Lukie-K
Nov 10 2012, 05:23 PM
brkfstfd
Nov 9 2012, 03:17 AM
Well when Prince What'shisname got married it was a shitstorm over here.
that isn't politics
I was just remarking on how the USA pays a lot of attention to changes in UK's government, and likewise.
Gyarados
 
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Hall&Oats
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In light of the global economic issues, I don't understand how there could be a recovery for everybody, or anybody for that matter. I also don't see any possibility for revolution, at least in America.
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BrianAFC
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Nikkisaur
Nov 11 2012, 08:41 PM
Thats over there, over here in Europe it is one of our human rights to have free medical care. Hell in Spain during Franco's reign as all time facist badass you entered a pharmacy with your prescription, handed it over, recieved your meds and walked out. There was no paying for even medicine.

No one understands here the concept of having to pay to be treated medically. Neither does Obama seeing as his mother was treated in England free on our NHS and treat very well. He did want to reform the system over there. I dont see why not. The taxes the government retain from our wages pay for that service. So why should we pay more? If I have no money why should I die because Im refused treatment? Its barbaric whether you think so or not.
"human rights" are an invention-- the fact people EXPECT medical care is a testament to how screwed we are in the head. It may be sad that people die... but guess what? People die. But that doesn't mean EVERYONE should get free medical, ESPECIALLY IF GOVERNMENT CAN'T AFFORD IT.

it's not barbaric, it's pragmatic. anyone who dies is a necessary casualty, because the alternative is feudalism or communism-- the good for all, not for one.



anyways, we aren't arguing about what's nice or not nice, we're talking about what's necessary for countries to survive and for people to be the most comfortable they can be simultaneously. the issue with your ideas, nikki, is that you're looking at this as, "well, IDEALLY the country should..." when there is only options in ACTUALITY.

and no, your government collects taxes that pay for services the government provides, and unfortunately, those services become increasingly expensive as the population grows and demands them more. Eventually there is too much demand, too much expectation, and the government can't afford it. That's how money works.
Edited by BrianAFC, Nov 12 2012, 02:55 AM.
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The weak should die and the strong should thrive.

But that's not right, because we're all important, of course. The mice that get away from the cat are the ones that reproduce.
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BURNOUTFREAK
2 Cabbages away from insanity

BrianAFC
Nov 12 2012, 02:52 AM
Nikkisaur
Nov 11 2012, 08:41 PM
Thats over there, over here in Europe it is one of our human rights to have free medical care. Hell in Spain during Franco's reign as all time facist badass you entered a pharmacy with your prescription, handed it over, recieved your meds and walked out. There was no paying for even medicine.

No one understands here the concept of having to pay to be treated medically. Neither does Obama seeing as his mother was treated in England free on our NHS and treat very well. He did want to reform the system over there. I dont see why not. The taxes the government retain from our wages pay for that service. So why should we pay more? If I have no money why should I die because Im refused treatment? Its barbaric whether you think so or not.
"human rights" are an invention-- the fact people EXPECT medical care is a testament to how screwed we are in the head. It may be sad that people die... but guess what? People die. But that doesn't mean EVERYONE should get free medical, ESPECIALLY IF GOVERNMENT CAN'T AFFORD IT.

it's not barbaric, it's pragmatic. anyone who dies is a necessary casualty, because the alternative is feudalism or communism-- the good for all, not for one.



anyways, we aren't arguing about what's nice or not nice, we're talking about what's necessary for countries to survive and for people to be the most comfortable they can be simultaneously. the issue with your ideas, nikki, is that you're looking at this as, "well, IDEALLY the country should..." when there is only options in ACTUALITY.

and no, your government collects taxes that pay for services the government provides, and unfortunately, those services become increasingly expensive as the population grows and demands them more. Eventually there is too much demand, too much expectation, and the government can't afford it. That's how money works.
You're fucking psycho mate.

Also you forget one thing. Yes, it becomes more expensive as the population grows, but the government also receives more taxes as the population grows.
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BrianAFC
Nov 12 2012, 02:52 AM
"human rights" are an invention
"Human beings" are an invention.
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You had my heart
At least for the most part
'Cause everybody's got to die
Sometime

We fell apart
Let's make a new start
'Cause everybody's got to die
Sometime

But baby don't cry
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yossy
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inventions are humans
the original, the only, yossy
accept no substitute.
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qwertyuio
 
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nate
 
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Orange
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Fuck da police

are inhumans ventions?
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Lejn
Nov 13 2012, 01:32 PM
Are vents inhuman ions?
Fuck, Lejn won. xD
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You had my heart
At least for the most part
'Cause everybody's got to die
Sometime

We fell apart
Let's make a new start
'Cause everybody's got to die
Sometime

But baby don't cry
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BrianAFC
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Cabbage
Nov 12 2012, 06:34 AM
BrianAFC
Nov 12 2012, 02:52 AM
Nikkisaur
Nov 11 2012, 08:41 PM
Thats over there, over here in Europe it is one of our human rights to have free medical care. Hell in Spain during Franco's reign as all time facist badass you entered a pharmacy with your prescription, handed it over, recieved your meds and walked out. There was no paying for even medicine.

No one understands here the concept of having to pay to be treated medically. Neither does Obama seeing as his mother was treated in England free on our NHS and treat very well. He did want to reform the system over there. I dont see why not. The taxes the government retain from our wages pay for that service. So why should we pay more? If I have no money why should I die because Im refused treatment? Its barbaric whether you think so or not.
"human rights" are an invention-- the fact people EXPECT medical care is a testament to how screwed we are in the head. It may be sad that people die... but guess what? People die. But that doesn't mean EVERYONE should get free medical, ESPECIALLY IF GOVERNMENT CAN'T AFFORD IT.

it's not barbaric, it's pragmatic. anyone who dies is a necessary casualty, because the alternative is feudalism or communism-- the good for all, not for one.



anyways, we aren't arguing about what's nice or not nice, we're talking about what's necessary for countries to survive and for people to be the most comfortable they can be simultaneously. the issue with your ideas, nikki, is that you're looking at this as, "well, IDEALLY the country should..." when there is only options in ACTUALITY.

and no, your government collects taxes that pay for services the government provides, and unfortunately, those services become increasingly expensive as the population grows and demands them more. Eventually there is too much demand, too much expectation, and the government can't afford it. That's how money works.
You're fucking psycho mate.

Also you forget one thing. Yes, it becomes more expensive as the population grows, but the government also receives more taxes as the population grows.
not for eighteen years they don't. for those eighteen years they're just a burden.

oh, and by the way, once people retire, they stop paying income taxes... aka, federal revenue. and they become a burden.

and then there's the area of the population that can't/chooses not to work. these are a burden, too. Thanks to modern medicine, these people will live EVEN longer, which makes them even more of a burden.

oh, and by the way, the amount of taxes paid by the increasing population does not outweigh the inevitably multiplying needs for each citizen. What's more, is that the more people there is, the higher the probability is of seeing serious conditions. The longer someone lives, too, the higher the probability of developing serious conditions. Keep in mind more serious = more expensive. Often NOBODY can pay these costs, and people are operated on a loss.

so, no. I'm not psycho. I'm just not an idiot enough to sacrifice entire countries for the sake of a handful of people. The greater good is benefited by taking care of the NATION not anyone else. Once the nation is taken care of, then you can take care of the individual and his moralities. Quote me, Malthus, John Stuart Mill, Frederich Nietzsche, Ron Paul, the Austrian School of Economics....... etc.

I come from a country where everyone is poor, where only the government and a few have power or money, etc. I still stand by my point.
Edited by BrianAFC, Nov 14 2012, 04:09 AM.
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I'm not sure why, but I always enjoy reading about your perceptions/opinions on the world, Brian. It's a lot like the tirades some of the homeless people I frequently see on buses share with me.

Hm. That sounds bad, but, it really isn't; it gives me something to listen to while my headphones are out of commission.

Anyhow, it's an interesting take; after a person ceases to plunge their time/money/and inevitably their life-force into the country in which they live, they cease to be a cog in the machine and become burdensome. Somewhat reminds me of the plot "Logan's Run".

Not to take a shit on anyone's ideals, but, I'm not into the whole "existential" thing; just not my cup of tea. But, to anyone who can say "I'm worthless, and that's okay, because so is most everyone else in the world. I think I'll have a sandwich," knows what role they wish to play in life, and plan to actively pursue it. I have very few "laws" for my own life (excluding things that delve deeper into "morals"); the basis them being to do as I wish to keep myself happy, do what I can to keep those I care about happy, and make as little an impact on the rest of the world as possible. If I'm able to die knowing I kept to those as much as I could, I won't have much to complain about.

Back to what I was saying, though. Concepts like Darwinism (In terms of Natural Selection, not Anti-Theism) and Pragmatism (Or Pragmaticism, depending on your specified belief) and so on are all "Human Inventions"; if I walked up to Zero and told him that because he doesn't fly as well as others, it will be his demise in the greater scheme, he would simply continue to eat his food. He might even chirp. It's a concept that he wouldn't grasp for a multitude of reasons; disregarding mental capacity, short-term memory, "language barriers" (for lack of a better term), and domestication, it's due to the "survival of the fittest" way of thought being a human invention - something he has no use for, as it affects him in no way, shape, or form. It's a label for something someone thought, shared with the rest of the world, then became widely accepted, and subsequently rejected by the rest of the world. Sure, some of these labels are useful, but they also have a tendency to over-complicate an already-complicated-enough concept.

So, my question is, what is your ideal "way of the world"? Should those who decide they they're done working just die without any attempts at prolonging the inevitable, and their would-be retirement fund sent back into circulation and/or to the government? Would the same concept apply to anyone fatally wounded as a victim of a crime, or, only if they're able to generate more money than they cost the country upon recovery? What if our vitality wasn't due to modern medicine, and people simply started mimicking the Chinese diet (which would hypothetically reduce the demand/need for said expenses)?

Just thinking out loud. I need cold medicine and sleep.
Posted Image
You had my heart
At least for the most part
'Cause everybody's got to die
Sometime

We fell apart
Let's make a new start
'Cause everybody's got to die
Sometime

But baby don't cry
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