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Making a civilian; Well, sort of
Tweet Topic Started: Nov 16 2006, 01:47 AM (1,802 Views)
SilverJ Jan 12 2007, 11:24 PM Post #46
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Darxzero
Jan 12 2007, 01:03 PM
admiralhowdy
Nov 27 2006, 10:54 PM
Anybody play the sample map TS2 redux? (or something like that, I forget the exact name) That map totally sucks because of that glitch, with all the Berserker splitters just standing around while you just walk on by them. Somone should be awfully embarrased for having put that clunker on the disc.

With me, the splitters just decided to try and deep fry me like normal.

Hey, that was my case to. They juist attacked me ,but I did a door logic thing to ,but they attacked me when the doors were unlocked maybe it was because they were set to stand in one spot. Unfourtunitly, I don't think that map has the memory to to add a Spawn and Attack Logic.
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admiralhowdy Jan 31 2007, 11:32 PM Post #47
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Here is a simple demonstration of the skee-daddling AI (the ones that run away from you) as found when I made LF8R action... (Edited from one I posted earlier, as this is a better example)

This only works with non-Zombie, non-Robot AI (needs to be someone who will man a gun turret). If you want them to be utterly harmless, give them a Ghost Gun (they need to have a weapon other than a bat for this to work).

Put a turret gun nearby the AI (two or so squares away in any direction in the 3-dimensional grid), so that when the AI spots you, it wants to go man the "nearby" turret gun to shoot you. But just becase the turret is "nearby" in space doesn't mean it needs to be immediatly accessible, or even "in sight." In this picture the turret guns are two floors up and behind a locked door. It was sheer coincidence that the AI on the roof of LF8R Action! was positioned 2 floors directly above a turret gun. With the first runner in that map, the AI can see the gun but can't cross the ramp to get to it directly, which is where I first experienced this as he tried to round the entire map to get to where the gun was positioned.

The most AI you can get to run at one time is 5, and each will need a turret gun reserved for him to run to. If they "sense" the nearby turret gun, and spot you at the same time, they will take off and run run run run run. You can make the pathway to the guns as long and circuitous as you want, over as many floors as you want. They will not stop until they get to a locked door, or to the gun if they can get to it. So these can be civilians running away from you (give them bricks since a gun might look out of place...they won't fire unless you are in their path).
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SV SHARKGUN Feb 7 2007, 07:02 PM Post #48
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I want 5 ducks to run away from me, but I didn't work properly...
There were 5 turrets nearby and 2 ducks just started running when they saw me but the rest just started pointing and shooting on me....
How can I solve this?

BTW:
Has anybody had undeletable story AI's in map maker?
In one of my story maps there are 3 AI's where the delete-function is blocked :blink:
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SilverJ Feb 7 2007, 10:27 PM Post #49
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I think I had this before to. I decide I didn't want them, so, I tried to delete them, and it wouldn't let me.
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admiralhowdy Feb 7 2007, 10:33 PM Post #50
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My guess is that the guns weren't close enough to the other AI (the ones that didn't run when they saw you). Two squares away and it should work (You can try putting them one sqaure away, behind a permanent wall). Also, the AI have to actually SPOT you with the turret gun that close to them. Meaning that if one AI spots you and starts running, another AI might start running simply because it spotted the 1st AI running, and not because it spotted YOU; then when the 2nd AI gets close enough to spot YOU, it may be too far away from a turret gun at that point for the behavior to exhibit.

(I don't remember ever not being able to delete an AI. Maybe it's involved in a Logic or something?)

Edit: Aahh, I see this is more complicated than I thought. It appears that in a group situation, all the AI will not run until you are closer to the guns than they are (or something like that-- when someone "calls dibs" on a partcular gun, its like that gun doesn't exist for the others to "sense"). The way to get them all to run as soon as possible in the picture example is to run straight out the AI room to the other side. Then all these will run. It's simpler to deal with them one at a time, that way there's no complications made by whose "calling dibs" on which gun. I dunno, play around with it some more.

Edit: Another possible fix I just found -- make sure the turret guns have 360 degree rotation. The AI will not run towards the turret gun unless the turret gun can aim in your direction, as the AI sees you. If the turret can't aim in the direction where you are standing, the AI will stay put and shoot their firearms at you. This may be the key more than anything else. Make this little map for fun (see pic). Make sure all the guns turn 360 degrees, and the AI face south. As you approach the corner, the first AI will see you, maybe fire once, and run away. The others will come to see what he saw, and as each one rounds the corner and sees you, they will turn immediately around and run the other way too. Pretty funny.
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SV SHARKGUN Feb 8 2007, 01:30 PM Post #51
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Feb 7 2007, 10:33 PM


(I don't remember ever not being able to delete an AI.  Maybe it's involved in a Logic or something?)

Nah, even when there's no Logic, then they are blocked....

Thx for helping so far, but it still doesn't work :( have you tried this glitch only in small corridors? Because it's an outdoor part, where the AIs are standing...
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SilverJ Feb 8 2007, 11:14 PM Post #52
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The same thing happened me. I had no logic for the A.I. ,but I still had undeleteable A.I. :angry: Of course, it made me mad and that's why there is an angry face is before this sentence.
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admiralhowdy Feb 8 2007, 11:17 PM Post #53
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I don't see how it would make a difference. The roof of elevator action is outside, and they try to run inside towards where the guns are. Every time a duck happens to run into the square above that one turret gun, the duck suddenly takes off towards the door, but is stopped short, since the door onto the roof is locked at that point.

Maybe you can post a small Struan's of your layout and I may be able to tell you something more.

EDIT: Also be sure that there is a clear path for the AI to each turret gun (doors are OK), and that there are no ramps or other items that could be in the way for the AI to percieve as a barrier that can't be crossed.

Another idea is if its outside, put the turret directly underneath where each AI is standing (making sure there is a clear way to get to each gun, and that each gun turns 360). If its a wide open area, give them sniper rifles -- that way there is no way that they can't spot you while standing right over the turret. Then they can't get accidentaly lured away from the turret by another AI running, so that they don't sense the turret anymore when they finally spot you themselves.

Also make sure the AI are Stationary or Spawn and Wait. Spawn and Attackers might know an enemy is in their midst and come gunning for you, but they haven't spotted you yet, and will be far removed from the turret gun when they finally do... but they might run away if you lead them to a turret gun "hot spot" (turret gun behind a wall, above a ceiling or under a floor)

One strange thing is that if there is a teleporter way to get to the turret, they will try to take that, and it doesn't matter if its a one-way teleporter going the wrong way. When that happens, the one-way teleporter won't accept them of course, so they run past it an start running against a wall. When you turn your back on them, the AI will run through the wall and magically make their way to the turret.

I've notice recently that this isn't 100% fool proof because some AI will just freeze sometimes to the point of not even chasing you (will stand and fire though), but that has nothing to do with the turret guns and is just a conflicting glitch (the type where you "surprise" that AI into freezing like that). If that is the problem, you'll have to figure a way around that particular glitch depending on the circumstances.
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SV SHARKGUN Feb 9 2007, 05:39 PM Post #54
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I'll make a little map in Struan and maybe you arew able to help me...
Thanks for your help so far :lol:
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admiralhowdy Feb 9 2007, 11:06 PM Post #55
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I just did a big outside thing using the sniper rifle idea. I made them run towards me then fall down a hole to backtrack to where the guns were placed underneath their spawn points (was thinking about making them circle closer and closer for a moving target practice minigame, but haven't gotten that far yet and was just letting them run straight at me). One of the 5 was freezing at his spawn point. The problem there was that there was an AI in front of him so that he couldn't actually see me when the AI in front of him saw me and started running... This made him just stand in place and fire. I fixed that by moving my Start All slightly so that everyone could see me at the same time (no AI had obstructed view of me). That could be another fix.

Edit: Yet another possible fix is to shuffle the positions of the AI. Some weirdness sometimes happens with the "calling dibs" I haven't quite figured out yet. Even with a turret placed directly beneath each AI, the AI may or may not go to the gun directly underneath them...

I had like a race set up, and each AI had a straight path of equal length that led to the guns underneath them. A camera set up on the lower level shows two or three of them playing "musical chairs" for the turret guns... you can tell who wants to go where, but it wasn't what I expected; logically they should go to the gun that was closest to them, but that didn't happen. Anyway, things were going so well, I tried to squeeze in a 6th one. Still didn't work for a 6th, so I deleted the 6th. When I came back to just the 5, now one of THESE wouldn't work... The one who wasn't working right I noticed was spawning 2-3 seconds after everyone else, where they should have been spawning simultaneoulsy and had in fact done so before. If I killed this late/stubborn one (who also ran differently when I finally got him near a hot spot he would notice), his second spawn would work right though. Also, I shuffled the AI around (put the stubborn one in someone else's spot, and put a "working" AI in the stubborn one's spot, and all was well again. You could also just delete all the AI and place whole new ones, which also fixed this strange glitch.

Edit: Also if the map starts to get too big, this seems to affect the behavior as well. In something I just did, they started running the wrong way, thinking they could get to a gun up high directly, by "running up" a stackable (they had a clear path in another direction). When they got to the stackable on their "way to" the turret, the game froze. Also, one time when I had lost the behavior in some of the AI in Lab, switching back to Military fixed it.
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SV SHARKGUN Feb 17 2007, 08:11 PM Post #56
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I haven't had that much time in the past few days.... so there you go :lol:
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admiralhowdy Feb 18 2007, 03:33 PM Post #57
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I just made it on my Gamecube and it works perfectly just like it is. I pulled the 2 gun rooms a square southwards to see if that would still work for me, and then I started encountering problems (one of the front AI would call dibs on one of the back two's guns, so that a rear AI would not run untill he came close enough to one of the front guns. So it could be a "calling dibs" problem. I hadn't made the guns turn 360 yet, and when I did, it worked perfectly again, with the two gun rooms pulled a square southwards.

If you have the guns pointing south and turning 360, it is either a "calling dibs" problem or.. (I hate to even think that the different console versions might work differently).

To fix the 1st thing, position the AI and guns farther apart from each other, so that each AI can only call dibs on 1 gun, and 1 gun only, the one underneath him (or close to him-- up to 2 squares away, which may be impossible to do in this example). Since the back AI are farther away, they don't actually spot you until they run forwards a step or 2 (they start running at first only because they saw the others running, and even though they fire and hit you, they technically haven't "spotted" you --make a "spots player" logic and you will see what I mean). If someone has already called dibs on "their" gun, then "their" gun is no longer availabe to them. So if you space the AI so that they all really "see" (spot) you at the same time, this could also fix the problem. But since it already worked perfectly for me until I started changing things, I don't know if this will work or not.

Try teleporting into their midst and see what happens when they all spot you at the same time (face them and the guns all towards the teleporter).

I just made a 5-floor high sniping practice Story map with this glitch. It would be a shame if only Gamecubers can get it to work.

EDIT 3/4/06: In fine-tuning The Wall, I discoved that you cannot use a "spots player" logic in conjnction with this glitch. I wanted it it to be, for instance, score increases by 1 ONLY if Enemy 1 spots player AND Enemy 1 killed (so that clueless stationary targets cannot be abused for points from a covered position, and only the downing of a running target would add points), but the running to the turret apparrently cancels out the spotting trigger.
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SilverJ Feb 18 2007, 09:52 PM Post #58
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So, chances are we PS2 users may not be able to make this map/ glitch.
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admiralhowdy Feb 19 2007, 01:27 AM Post #59
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Well Sharkgun did get 2 to run, so it does work on PS2 at least a little bit, he's just having trouble getting the max of 5 at one time. I think it can be done with a little more fooling around. Even on Gamecube, once you get it, the behavior can sometimes vanish for no apparrent reason, especially when you keep modifying a map. I kept losing one runner out of 5 when I was making my sniping map, but I was able to get him back by (oddly enough) turning his 360-degree turret gun slightly.
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SV SHARKGUN Feb 19 2007, 07:35 PM Post #60
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Feb 19 2007, 01:27 AM
Well Sharkgun did get 2 to run, so it does work on PS2 at least a little bit, he's just having trouble getting the max of 5 at one time. I think it can be done with a little more fooling around. Even on Gamecube, once you get it, the behavior can sometimes vanish for no apparrent reason, especially when you keep modifying a map. I kept losing one runner out of 5 when I was making my sniping map, but I was able to get him back by (oddly enough) turning his 360-degree turret gun slightly.

Alright, I'll give it a try :lol:
I hope it works... thanks for helping :good: :w00t:
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