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Some thoughts on WWE
Topic Started: Apr 18 2011, 01:55 PM (184 Views)
Strange
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The Parody of Clarity; The Full Metal Maverick
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You know I have wanted to write something here for a while so if this seems dumb, I'm sorry. I just wanted to ask some people's opinion about a few things. I guess I will start with TNA.

Seriously... what the hell has happened? I watched this thing slowly build up from the get go. I can actually say I watched the first ever NWA TNA show with the main event being Psychosis vs Jerry Lynn vs Amazing Red vs AJ Styles for the first ever X Division Champion. It was Styles lol. I have watched it over those years and slowly it became a huge hit with Slammiversary and that.

Then Hogan and Bischoff come in (and Carter too) and everything changes. Why? I mean, nowadays, everyone comes in from WWE and gets insanely pushed and then all tied into Immortal. It's beyond ridiculous. The last TNA champs have been Sting, Anderson, Hardy, Rob Van Dam... It's beyond ludicrous why anyone thinks they are entertainment. The storylines are practically non existent and the ones that are get dragged on forever. How many more times are we gonna have to see Karen Angle feud with Jarrett and Kurt? And because the pushes are so rapid and instantaneous, they get pulled away lightning fast. Case in point, Suicide and Robbie E. One second they are champs and now they are dropping to everyone. I remember when there was warfare going on for the X division title in the days of Michael Shane, Kazarian, Joe, Style, Daniels, etc. Now, it's just sporadically thrown to someone new ever few weeks. And the Television title or whatever has been changed more times than I can count in name and holder alone. What the hell is Gunner doing with the title? He's a tag team wrestler. Him with the belt makes very little sense.

There's so many changes in the storyline that the main one is the only thing we can actually focus on and it sucks half the time.

Basically, TNA, to me, has fallen and fallen huge. None of the matches have interesting buildups. There are great wrestlers there but they dont really have any big plot to follow. It just seems that every show, they come out, beat the hell out of each other and go home. All the while the person who talks the most, surprise surprise, is Bischoff. He makes himself and Hogan the center point of the show with this stupid Immortal faction that just screams NWO. I mean, we've already had that a million times. We dont' need it. Why did they have to change what essentially made TNA different than WWE? The six sided the ring, the insane matches, and the great variety of plots, feuds, and fighters. I'm just waiting for the next few months to see who is going to be scooped up from WWE when they make the cuts and then super pushed while someone who just was gets pushed down. Case in point... when was the last time anyone saw Joe able to dominate like he used to?




Well that's TNA and now I focus on WWE. Like many, I was sad to see Edge retire. Watching him since the days of the Brood, he was one of the guys I knew would one day be huge, and my brothers often told me I was nuts (they said the same thing when I said Cena, Punk, Orton, Miz, and i still say Morrison and Rhodes but more on that later).

When I first started watching wrestling, what I loved most (if anyone hasnt guessed) is variety. Sure there were repeat matches but there was a reason for it. Wrestlemania 2000 (I cant remember the actual number because thats how they billed it) saw a fatal fourway for the title. Thing is, the buildup for that match had been probably the most epic thing ever. HHH and Stephanie were seemingly unstoppable and the only people who could get them pissed was Mick Foley and The Rock. Hunter got rid of Foley and left the Rock shorthanded. Rock had won the Rumble but Show was fueding with him and aligned with Shane to get Rock's wrestlemania spot. Vince returned and helped the Rock and Linda aligned with Foley who was allowed to main event Wrestlemania for the first time. This had been nearly 5 months in the making and the pay off was huge. In a move that was shocking (then) HHH retained when the rock was screwed. What happened then? Backlash. HHH vs the Rock with Steve Austin returning! Then what? Rock vs HHH with HBK as ref and the returning Undertaker! THEN it was Rock/Taker/Kane vs HHH/Shane/Vince... That saw the end of that huge chapter. It was almost a year long and there was never a dull moment. They constantly added and took from it but at the core of it was Rock versus HHH.

More recently we had the feud with Edge w/ Lita and Cena which was pretty epic too. But since then, what have we had in terms of feud? Nothing. Not really anyway. On raw, it's All Cena. I can't count the number of shots that guy has had and how many times his matches are with the same guy and follow the same pattern. I like Cena from when he started and HE IS GOOD but it's just him... ALL THE TIME! There's no storylines anymore like there were in the attitude era. Not even close. It just seems more than dumb when you see heels nowadays who almost all fit into the same mold (except CM Punk whose straightedge gimmick actually wasnt bad). Alberto Del Rio... seriously... HE'S going to get the title? He just freaking got here. It's like when Sheamus got it. They push these guys so fast nowadays that there's no real development of them. Is Del Rio bad? No not really but with Miz, they actually developed him for months and years and let him culminate in this champ... and then they freaking have him cut off in a lot of air time. Cena still gets more air time than Miz.For years, it's been the same challengers for the titles. Orton, Cena, Taker, Punk, Edge, Batista etc. Meanwhile, they push guys like Swagger who really has no character. He's just annoying. And... Ziggler. Wow. If this guy had a decent name, he would be a great character. But he doesnt. Why? CAuse Mcmahon is certifiably nuts! Not even the Rock can do what he used to because of the damn family rating. So my question is why are we seeing the same boring crap over and over again? The reason Morrison isn't being pushed is because he a) doesn't seem to Vince that he can beat someone up (And freaking Swagger does?), and B) because he stone walled Trish Stratus during Wrestlemania but refusing to have her be the focus on the match. He still wanted to his some spots. That's not wrong, that's being safe.

Furthermore, when was the last time we actually saw a developed storyline that wasn't one or two months long? I mean something like Rock vs Hunter or Benoit (ya I said it) versus Jericho? Answer? Just one. Shawn Michaels versus Undertaker. And therein lies the problem with both companies. They don't have a damn clue how to make a storyline anymore. They can't fill the roster or shows with good developed feuds and that because they are always changing everything. Daniel Bryan (ok quick question about that... anyone besides me think that their use of this guy is retarded. He's one of the best in the world and they dont push him really. why?) may not have a character but he's easily a Bret Hart. Cody Rhodes had a great match with Rey (not stellar but very decent for Wrestlemania) and his character is actually somewhat of a breath of fresh air. So what is happening to that? Nothing really.

The Nexus and the Corre. This was well thought out at first with all this numbers game before the Corre but now every time they come out, they just beat the hell out of someone or get chased off. It's getting repetitive. Im glad Wade Barrett is the champ but when is he going to legitimately wrestle without anyone backing him? The whole thing is just one archaic formula now.

I think what needs to change is the reintroduction of storyline. ADULT storyline. have characters do actual grownup things and not be this comic book caricatures of good and evil people. There's no depth anymore and the matches dont have any major significance, save of course for a select few like HBK/HHH versus Undertaker.

Anyone remember Rock versus Hogan? That took ONE month to build up and it was quite possibly the biggest thing anyone had seen in a long time. Wrestlemanias used to destroy everyone's expectations. Now, everyone, for the most part, thinks these are good performances but way below Wrestlemania.

I dont know guys. Just my thoughts.
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Shawn Winters
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I agree with alot of what you said. TNA is making the same exact mistakes that WCW made and that's taking over aged WWE talent and pushing them in TNA because they're already established stars instead of using their own established stars. How AJ Styles hasn't been a World Champion in a while is insane. The whole Hogan vs. Sting thing that's about to happen is officially the death of TNA, I'm saying it right now.

I've never been a fan of the product because they've never had storylines and it's just seems like a bunch of random matches. However I am a fan of alot of guys in TNA such as Styles, Shelley, Sabin, Daniels, Beer Money, Wolfe...they have alot of great talent. Guys like Anderson? I've never liked which is why he hasnt been missed in WWE. RVD? Sure he's one of the best but he needs to be a guy to job to some younger guys to establish them. Sting is the same way, he shouldn't be anywhere near that Championship. Jeff Hardy? Well he's just fucking his own life up despite the fact that I love the guy. His feud with Punk when he left WWE was one of the best of the last 10 years.

Needless to say I have no faith in TNA simply because they're no where near competing with WWE and nor will they if they rely on guys like Sting and Hogan.

Now on to WWE. You had some great points about storylines. The ones that stand out to me the last 10 years have been HBK vs HHH, Punk vs Hardy, HBK vs Taker, I know I'm forgetting some but those are the ones that really stood out for me.

Your view on Daniel Bryan is a bit slated I feel. Now I don't like the guy because he doesn't entertain me, he doesn't capture my attention. He is an amazing wrestler but to say that he could easily be a Bret Hart? That's a bit much. Bret is one of the best ever and had a HUGE fan base all around the world. Not to mention he was bigger than Bryan and had a much better look than Bryan. Whether you like it or not Vince likes guys that look the part and Bryan doesn't look like a believable World Champion. He's good in the US or IC title rankings but I don't ever expect him to get anywhere further.

I have grown on Del Rio, he is a good heel despite the fact that he's just a remake of the JBL gimmick. However I hate the fact that they push guys so fast these days. Sheamus was horrible and now look at him? Going backwards. Swagger? He was great with his Eagle Mascot, that shit was comedy. Del Rio? I'd love for him to be in the IC title rankings but instead he wins the Royal Rumble out right and now anything from here on will be regressing. He'll prolly win the World title but he'll be just like Sheamus and regress afterwards. Cody Rhodes? I'm liking his gimmick right now but I can't get over his lisp it' hard not to laugh at. He annoys me with no knee pads too, just looks weird lol. But he is a bright spot on SD. I've also liked Drew McIntyre even though he doesn't seem to do anything anymore.

The best guys in WWE right now I feel are Punk, Miz, Morrison, Ziggler, Rhodes. Dolph Ziggler I don't care if you don't like his name the guy is money. He's a great heel and is an awesome wrestler. I'm looking forward to an actual one on one match at a PPV for Morrison and Ziggler. Please Vince give that match enough time to be great.

Now onto Morrison, he's been my favorite guy to watch for the past few years. He does things in the ring that nobody can come close to doing. However I have lost ALOT of respect for him with all the things coming out about him and his relationship with Melina. I mean really dude? You let her cheat on you willingly? Grow a back bone and kick the bitch to the curb, she's what's holding him back. Melina I believe doesn't have a future in WWE. She'll be let go eventually and I wouldn't be surprised if Morrison quit afterwards. WWE may be keeping Melina because of Morrison however. Either way Morrison needs to dump that bitch and get respect in the locker room because without it he's prolly going to be in limbo just like he is now.

Now I'd like to see more adult storylines but I've come to terms with the fact that it's not going to happen. WWE is a PG program now and only able to use the word "ass" like twice on TV and those have been all used by The Rock. WWE is pretty much gone back to the early 90's days and until somebody is there to challenge them they don't feel any pressure to change.
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Parts Unknown
Blast!1 That Disco Ninja is at it again!
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Shawn hit everything I had to say about TNA. And most I have had to say about TNA is that I give up locked thread about TNA and it's lacking of well, I don't know, anything fun.

I have sat through ONE airing of Impact. And that was only a month ago. But I have heard tons about TNA. So my opinions are mostly built around hersay, thus not worthwhile.

WWE:

For the record, Del Rio is a remake of a remake gimmick. He's Mexican JBL and JBL was remake of the Million Dollar Man, which was admittedly one of Vince's favorite gimmicks.

It's a classic gimmick that's great for heel heat.

Del Rio performs it well, so there's that.

I'm understanding the lack of vareity. It has been the ONE thing that has made me more or less a on and off fan (I'm currently on). I started watching right around the time when there were terrorities and WWF/E hadn't gone national yet. So I have AWA to grow up on. Then this WWF show started to pop up. This was the mid to late 80s where WWF didn't have ppv events every month, so you had to build fueds over time, change titles on free TV, all that crap.

Some might disagree with me but I like the fact we get a year to build up the Cean and Rock fued. That's old school. If we didn't have brand splits, they could really mix up things, and really build a truly awesome fued in a month's time. They do fine as is, but just saying.

The major problem with WWE, is a recycling of Main Eventers. Orton/Cena/Edge/Taker/um we need a mid card jobber here, so how about R Truth.

With Edge retiring, which good for him, he gave us years of entertainment and we shouldn't fault him for throwing in the towel after what, 17 years? I think WWE has a huge chance to bring in fresh talent into the main event. This is something I'm waiting for. Del Rio, Kofi, Rhodes I can think of others but they're Raw guys so, doesn't help Smackdown.

But they need the next 'generation' of main eventers to step in. I don't know if you pay attentnion but I started to notice Cena getting booed about 3 years ago, because the fans are sick of him. The Rock redeems him because let's face it, he's only as good as the person he's working with. Especially when it comes to mic work.

I'm gonna end up ranting more than I wanted to, so I'm gonna stop.

Enjoyed? I hope so.

I hope ya don't hate yall.
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The Real Speed
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Everything wrong with WWE- Watch tonights RAW.. Morrison and R-Truth should never be given a mic ever again.. ever.. for life.

Everything Good- Sin Cara is awesome.
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Parts Unknown
Blast!1 That Disco Ninja is at it again!
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Sin Cara is awesome!

I've been marking out for him since the first hype video they aired. I just hope they don't squanner (spelling?) such a talent.
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Madelyne
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The PG rating was actually a very smart idea on the part of WWE. It's nowhere near as cool as the Attitude Era with its adult themes... but by targeting a younger audience, they have effectively renewed their fanbase. Smarks want to get all butthurt over it because it's not what they want to see (effectively taking the "s" out of their name), but the truth of the matter is the PG rating is good for business.
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XdpK
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The Real Speed,Apr 18 2011
08:56 PM
Everything wrong with WWE- Watch tonights RAW.. Morrison and R-Truth should never be given a mic ever again.. ever.. for life.

Everything Good- Sin Cara is awesome.

that was a very cringe worthy segment the segment was very awkward...just bad
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Strange
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The Parody of Clarity; The Full Metal Maverick
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Actually it's not good for business because buyrates are significantly lower and continue to drop since the pg rating came into effect a lot of people stopped watching. The reports from wrestlemania suggest the buyrate and performances were far below wrestlemania standards. I'm no mark but I know that wwe has become far too predictable.
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Madelyne
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Strange,Apr 19 2011
11:56 PM
Actually it's not good for business because buyrates are significantly lower and continue to drop since the pg rating came into effect a lot of people stopped watching. The reports from wrestlemania suggest the buyrate and performances were far below wrestlemania standards. I'm no mark but I know that wwe has become far too predictable.

A lot of people make that buyrate argument, and on the surface, it's a fairly good point. At least, until you take into account the fact that the country is in a massive recession. That in and of itself affects buyrates of everything. And then there are the streaming internet broadcasts, something which was nowhere near as widespread during the Attitude Era as it is today.

As for performance, that hardly ties into the PG rating. That's on the wrestlers themselves. I'll grant that the storylines are predictable by the older audiences, but again, that's hardly due to a PG rating. We've seen numerous PG shows/movies in the entertainment world that rocked hard; Justice League Unlimited and Gargoyles, for instance, were shows that held a PG rating, yet could shock with twists and turns. The true problem lies in the writing for WWE. Like you said, they're predictable, and that's a writing issue. Rating is not an indicator of greatness. Take TNA, for example. They're definitely not a PG show, with upskirts, cleavage galore, language all over, blood spilling every other episode... yet TNA sucks out loud. Why is that? The writing and booking. Not the rating.

The renewing of the fanbase is a tried and proven method of success when it comes to an ongoing series. Look at Star Wars. It targets today's kids instead of the people who saw the originals back in the '70s, and it has been enjoying wild success. As an old school Star Wars fan, I hate it. I think it's completely retarded, in the same vein that old school WWF fans think today's WWE is utterly retarded. But the kids love it. It catches their attention, and kids are the most marketable audience in all of entertainment. Think about it: action figures, playsets, t-shirts, pajamas, swim gear, shoes, and so on. Most of these are purchased by parents for their kids. Hell, wrestling toys fly off the shelves of my local Walmart. From a marketing perspective, it's an excellent move.
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Strange
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Yeah I see your point there but at the same time, what drew the young fans is inane cases are the stories they heard about wrestling from the older generation. Even now we all look back fondly on wwf of old. This gen won't have that. Wrestling will be something they eventually outgrow. Maybe the pg rating isn't awful for business and yes the recession does play a part, but honestly, can you see anyone talking about the ic title fights of kofi vs Barrett in the sane vein as Jericho vs chyna or edge vs test? I really doubt it guys.

I think what it comes down is whether wwe is preparing this generation of kids to inspire the next and maybe I am wrong but I doubt it.
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