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| AJ Styles returns to ROH for one night | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 20 2004, 07:58 PM (128 Views) | |
| I ~ The Jessiah | Dec 20 2004, 07:58 PM Post #1 |
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Ring of Honor has booked AJ Styles for Dayton, Ohio on 2/25/05, the first date Styles has worked for the company since TNA pulled their contracted talent last April during fallout of the March 2004 Rob ????? situation. Styles will be facing former protege Jimmy Rave (who has been using his finisher after turning heel) in Dayton. ROH will be promoting the appearance as a one time event. There are several reasons for that. According to sources from both companies, TNA is taking the stance that they do not want Styles (and Christopher Daniels) working for multiple independent companies in the same market. Therefore, both are exclusive to 3PW in the Philadelphia market, so they are (as of now) unavailable to Ring of Honor in Philly. At the same time, Styles' schedule is currently filled up so he isn't booked for return appearances yet. Ring of Honor has yet to be able to book Christopher Daniels for a return to the company due to the same Philadelphia restrictions and Daniels' own full schedule. TNA began easing up on their contracted talent appearing on ROH in recent months, with Tracy Brooks returning to the company and Alex Shelley continuing to work for ROH despite signing a TNA deal. Obviously, ROH would love to get their hands on Styles and Daniels fulltime as Daniels was a main eventer from the promotion's first event in February 2002 and Styles was a major babyface for the company from the point he was brought in several months later. credit: pwinsider Unofficially, I think the plan is to hope that TNA closes by that date and he (and Daniels) can be back for good. The drop dead date for TNA is rumored to be February 5. Let's keep our fingers crossed. The problem, though, is guys like Daniels and Styles are booked elsewhere until the end of time so even if TNA does go under, it will be difficult for ROH to schedule them to dates. |
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| ~ ELITIST ASSHOLE ~ | Dec 20 2004, 09:22 PM Post #2 |
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BECAUSE I AM
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I don't see TNA folding by then or at all. I think people are just over reacting to this and some of the media is making a bigger issue then need be. I havent' heard anything about this from dave meltzer and if TAN were to be folding he'd be the first if not one of the first to mention it. As for ROH, i think it'd be a good match to see. |
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| I ~ The Jessiah | Dec 21 2004, 12:20 AM Post #3 |
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Bro, it's called common sense. When a wrestling promotion costs an energy company that backs it 20 million dollars over the course of the year, what do you think they're going to do with it? There aren't rumors so much as people are using the ol' noggin. I, personally, would like to see WWE buy out TNA just so Vince can fire Jeff Jarrett on live TV again. |
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| I ~ bruno3997 | Dec 21 2004, 05:50 PM Post #4 |
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THE KLIQ IS BACK PERIOD!!
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LOL funny but I'm a huge fan of TNA so I wouldn't want to see that just not cool. |
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| Menace | Dec 22 2004, 08:54 AM Post #5 |
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Menace to Society
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not cool at all i too am a big fan of TNA, and would hate to see that happen im a fan of RoH as well, and love there shows |
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| I ~ The Jessiah | Dec 22 2004, 11:40 AM Post #6 |
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I dunno. I guess I'm just a fan of good wrestling. Knowing TNA can't produce it, and knowing TNA closing will free certain talented wrestlers up so they can wrestle to their full potential elsewhere makes me wanna see TNA close. I guess I'm just old school. I guess I'm too smart in wrestling terms for the bad shows TNA produces that are covered up by a couple cool spots that just roxors!!! Some of you guys just don't know good wrestling. You watch a bad wrestling match that ends in a flipping piledriver and think it's a good wrestling match. I wish I can slap you silly, but our computers aren't that advanced yet. Just mark my word that when (it may not be in Feb but it will happen) TNA closes it will be good for wrestling. |
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| I ~ bruno3997 | Dec 22 2004, 04:05 PM Post #7 |
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THE KLIQ IS BACK PERIOD!!
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Why so the most talented wrestlers can go to WWE get played like suckas now I love wrestling and some of the things these guys do now is just unbelievable now if they are used right then I'm all for it but lets face it if Vince bought out TNA he wouldn't know what to do with them. |
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| I ~ The Jessiah | Dec 23 2004, 02:56 AM Post #8 |
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The Vince buying TNA line was sooooo a joke, my man. I don't think WWE would have anything to gain by buying TNA. In the case with WCW, Vince didn't buy the promotion to have some sort of monopoly around the wrestling world like some people seem to think. He bought it for the library of WCW television over the years. What sort of archives would he get from buying TNA? Two years worth of poorly booked weekly ppvs? I think the funniest tidbit around the TNA situation is that Wildside wants to become a WWE developmental league like OVW. For those that don't know, Wildside is where TNA get a lot of their talent they use for the X Divison. I think Styles, himself, was originally a part of Wildside. That would be classic if they became a WWE developmental league. |
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| Menace | Dec 23 2004, 08:34 AM Post #9 |
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Menace to Society
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different people like different things Jess myself, i would rather see Hall, Nash and Jarret over Bryan Danielson any day of the week i dont know what that makes me in your eyes, but thats just what i like |
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| I ~ The Jessiah | Dec 23 2004, 12:06 PM Post #10 |
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Someone who likes entertainment rather than wrestling, which is fine. The thing about that, though, is that's what the WWE is full of. You can be tired of the WWE because of the lack of wrestling, but if you are into wrestling for entertainment purposes WWE has it better than anyone today. So no, I don't think any less of anyone who likes a sports entertainer over a trained wrestler, but the part of your argument that didn't make sense was you being more entertained by TNA's show than the WWE. Edit: Out of curiosity what American Dragon matches have you seen? Dragon has always pretty much been considered the ace of ROH but this year he has improved tremendously over 2003. I would really like to know, what matches, if any, have you seen out of American Dragon this year? Like I understand the point you are trying to make, but you basically said you preferred watching washed up has beens over a man who is arguably the best worker in the country right now. So I have to know what matches of Dragons you are basing this argument on. |
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| I ~ bruno3997 | Dec 23 2004, 06:27 PM Post #11 |
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THE KLIQ IS BACK PERIOD!!
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I've heard of this American Dragon but have not seen any of his matches I've never even seen a ROH show it doesn't come on out here in NY. Now I use to live watching the XPW back home in Cali. |
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| Menace | Dec 24 2004, 09:47 AM Post #12 |
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Menace to Society
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i never said i preferred NWA to WWE ... only the washed up guys to Danielson i havent seen any 2004 stuff ... only 2003 ... with him tagging with Samoa Joe against the Briscoes ... and a couple of singles matches that made that much of an impression on me i dont even remember who they were against tell you the truth, my main memory of him is screaming out F words to the crowd |
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| I ~ The Jessiah | Dec 24 2004, 10:16 AM Post #13 |
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1.) You told me in IM you were enjoying Impact more than Raw/Smackdown. 2.) The fact that you only remember parts of wrestling matches where the wrestler is jawing with the crowd is where the problem lies. I watch wrestling to watch wrestling. I am not the type of guy that turns on Raw for the diva search then goes and gets another beer when "They do that boring wrestling stuff." Eyes glue to the tv when Triple H and Evolution argue for the first half hour of the show. Then after hearing the really cool ring entrances go take a piss while they wrestle and nothing interesting happens. American Dragon is one of the greatest workers in the world right now. In about ten years he will probably be where Benoit is. I base that fact on him being right now where Benoit was ten years ago. His 2004 matches have blown away his 2003 matches, but y'know what? Judging by the things you have said, I'm not sure you'd be able to comprehend the difference (and I'm not trying to insult you). I can just picture you watching the Dragon/Aries going 2/3 falls and at the 90 minute mark you being like "The Outsiders need to come down and take over the show. Where's Jarrett with the guitar?"
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| I ~ bruno3997 | Dec 24 2004, 03:37 PM Post #14 |
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THE KLIQ IS BACK PERIOD!!
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Man J the way you tslk sbout this guy I'm going to have to see waz up with him. |
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| I ~ The Jessiah | Jan 8 2005, 08:34 PM Post #15 |
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This is for you then. I pulled down a piece written by Tim Cooke over at the ROH boards. Now Tim Cooke I think is the smartest wrestling fan I believe I have ever seen. The only problem with this write up he had of Danielson was it was written a few months ago. So it doesn't includes his thoughts on Danielson/Aries II or Danielson/Joe (Dragon's best match to date). Or even the Weekend of Thundar matches. **** Bryan Danielson v AJ Styles (11-01-03 – ROH – Elizabeth, NJ) One year after Danielson totally carried Styles to a sensible match that toned down most of the Styles crazy and flippy spots, he has to do the same thing in this match. This is the much better match, there is no doubt about that. But this still has the inconsistencies that can be seen in most of Styles major matches. He would rather bring innovative moves to the match then actually sell the damage that is being inflicted on him by his opponent. Danielson does some nice mat work on Styles which Styles can not be bothered to sell as the stretch run occurs. It is so annoying as Styles is capable of putting on a high end “indy” match if he wouldn’t resort to the non-selling aspects of his work and his over-reliance of indy innovation. Danielson is excellent here and starts his streak of ***+ matches on almost every card he is on. Bryan Danielson v Jay Briscoe (12-27-03 – ROH – Phildadelphia, PA) I do cop to over rating this and I will gladly except that as at the time, this was one of the higher end Danielson matches (behind his 12-07-02 and 04-12-03 Paul London matches). The growth in Danielson’s working ability has been very progressive. At the ECWA Super 8 2001, Danielson worked many dives and flying high spots in his first round match against Spanky while also working to mold his other offense as a Dynamite Kid/Chris Benoit clone (with clone not inferring bad in this case). By the 07/21/01 ECWA show versus Low Ki, he has become a lot more focused on the mat aspect of his game, dropping the Orihara Moonsault from his arsenal. By the King of the Indies in 2001, he was easily surpassing Low Ki in his ability to work UWF style mat work but mixing in US Pro Style without messing up the flow of the match. His initial run in ROH from 02/23/02 to 09/21/02 was his next big leap as he easily became the best worker in ROH. Even as the best worker, he relied on the tried and true facets of what worked in these sorts of matches. It is almost following the New Japan Junior style. Mat work to kill time then high spots for near falls. His selling would set him apart from workers like Christopher Daniels and Low Ki. After returning from his first tour of New Japan in November of 2002, Danielson was clearly reaching another level in his game. His carrying of AJ Styles on 11/09/02 was clearly the match of the night and the best match in either man’s career. But that would be eclipsed a month later when Danielson took on Paul London on 12-07-02. Danielson took a much more game opponent in London, who he wouldn’t have to work through the basics so much with (like he did with Styles) and worked a story throughout the match. This was the first ROH match that didn’t rely on the “Dream Match” stipulation or the “This match was 30 minutes but mostly on the mat” syndrome. London and Danielson told a crisp story of Veteran of ROH versus an up and coming potential future star. By the end of the match, it was clear that London was a super star. Danielson was able to make that clear by the simple story he laid out, as well as London’s selling and Danielson putting over everything London shot at him in the end. The next level came on 04/12/03 against Paul London. Originally suppose to be Ki v London, Danielson filled in for Ki and had a 2 out of 3 falls match which the fans had voted as the stipulation. Danielson once again went to work in telling a few different stories during the match but the two wrestlers thinned out their move sets even more to make sure the story was the number one focus of attention, not the high spots. The execution, build, layout, story, heat, and specifically selling made this match truly epic. While the 12/07/02 match was awesome, it still felt like it was an indy match at points. 04/12/03 was clearly a match that was much richer than the label of “indy” would define. Danielson spent the next months in England and Europe, fine tuning his craft. His return to the states in November of 2003 is where he really has grown the most. The old usage of Danielson was: put him in a match with someone who is carryable and it will be great…put him in someone who is just below him and it will be excellent. Since coming back from Europe, this has changed. It is now: put him in with anyone and it will at least peak at ***…put him in with someone who knows what they are doing and the potential is unlimited until the match is over. The Danielson/Briscoe match at the time was the second tier Danielson match (just below the London matches). But looking back and in re-watching, it is actually just another solid Danielson match. Of course, a solid Danielson match is more than worth going out of your way to see. And it should be noted that since April of 2004, Jay Briscoe has improved ten fold, so a re-match would easily eclipse the 12-27-03 Final Battle match. Bryan Danielson/Samoa Joe v Briscoes (01-10-04 – ROH – Dayton, Ohio) If there is a disappointing Danielson match, I guess it would be this one. This is far from a stinker but the match never really gains enough focus and steam to make it really work as a great tag match. That could be since the main event 6 man on the show was suppose to be the stealer so these guys toned it down a little. It is not a bad match but is the lowest end Danielson match I have seen since his return. And it is not just his opponents. All four guys were just there for the night. They accomplished what they needed to storyline wise and character wise, but the actual match left something to be desired. Probably the definitive *** Danielson match. If he has had a worse match than this from 2004, I haven’t seen it. Bryan Danielson v Bobby Quance (02-22-04 – PWG – California) Bobby Quance is a fun worker. He brings a lot of neat things to the table. But like AJ Styles, for every good thing he brings, he tends to bring a mixed bag of average and negatives. This match probably went a little too long; at 22 minutes, it seemed like they could have fit in everything in 15 without resorting to a spot fest. Regardless, Danielson is very good in this match, guiding Quance when he needs it and doing everything he excels at. Danielson had his break out tour in New Japan before returning to the US for this show and it shows. His heel mannerisms were in full flight, his slicked back “prick” haircut was evident that he was going to be rudo’ing it up more. ***1/4- and don’t let the rating fool you. This is on the level of the Styles and Briscoe matches against Danielson. Bryan Danielson v Samoa Joe (04-17-04 – PWG – California) Improvement is something that indy wrestlers either get or they don’t get. The regression of Low Ki (prior to his heel turn, which has things looking up but the jury is still out), Homicide (who by January of 2004 had become so annoying to me to the point that I knew I didn’t even want to watch his matches on tape) is common. Improvement is also common, in being able to work smarter with less flying or dangerous moves. Homicide will show his growth in the next couple of paragraphs. But this is about Samoa Joe. I have always dug Joe, even when he did stuff that I thought wasn’t exactly the smartest or the wisest. A legit heavyweight on the US Indy scene is rare, none the less one that can work. Since his cage match with Jay Briscoe on 03-13-04, Joe has stepped up his game and has become an excellent wrestler as well as becoming “The Man” in ROH. He isn’t Mitsuharu Misawa, Jumbo Tsuruta, or Aja Kong in being the “Man” or “Women” but then again, that is the most elite class ever. For his role, he is excelling beyond what I ever thought he would. This match is leaps and bounds better than their 2002 EPIC match or their 2003 ROH encounters. In fact, this 30 minute draw is the bare essentials of what these guys can do. That makes sense too since they were suppose to go without a time limit on 08-14-04 until Danielson was called back to New Japan. ***1/2 and they were just testing the waters. Not everything works in the match, some of the time on the outside is a bit overdone, but as a first match in over a year, this “test” run would be the MOTY for most promotions. Bryan Danielson v CM Punk (04-23-04 – ROH – Minnesota) Bryan Danielson v Homicide (04-24-04 – ROH – Chicago) The first is the give Danielson an opponent who is good but will keep getting better as time goes on and have a good match. The Punk match is a fine way to kill 20 minutes. Nothing really wrong with it, but nothing blow away. The disappointment may stem from the fact that Punk would show he is a top 5 worker in the US on the weekend of 6/11 and 6/12/04 against Chris Hero (57 minute match) and Samoa Joe (60 minute match). Of course Danielson would go on the next night to have a MOTYC with Homicide. This match is like the Bobby Quance match, good stuff but you know they have better. ***1/4. The Homicide match is a classic. US MOTYC. WORLD MOTYC. Danielson at his best. Homicide at his best. I have written a ton about this in the past so I don’t feel I need to elaborate. As good as Danielson is in this match, I think Homicide works at a level above him for one night. When you get two performances like that, no bad can come from it. ****1/2. Bryan Danielson v Rocky Romero (04-27-04 – Inoki Dojo – Tournament Final) This is the best non-ROH match from 2004 on the Indies. Simply put, this is a sick match. All the elements that both wrestlers bring into the match are stunning. Romero brings the superior striking, Danielson brings the knowledge of the mat and the want to be able to work pro-style against a guy who wants to be a UWF style fighter but can work Lucha and Japanese style as well. Cue in the UWF mat work, the UWF “downs” for knockouts, and the way they sell for each other and you have a classic. And this classic is only 13+ minutes. This never feels rushed though and they develop something special from the get go. Romero is the real deal, probably more so than Homicide, Ki, Briscoes, etc in that he is polished in a variety of styles. His EMLL work has shown his diversity in the Lucha style. His upcoming U-Style match (8-18-04) should accompany this match in showing that Romero could be an excellent UWF style worker. But Romero is polished to a tee. His kicks are stiff, look great, sound great, yet aren’t dangerous. His move set is basic yet strong and doesn’t have the mess of indy innovation moves that most US Indies guys have. ****- see this match right away. It is two guys doing a style that Low Ki tried to do in 2001 and 2002 but failed. These guys do it right. Bryan Danielson v Jack Evans (06-24-04 – ROH – Philly) Bryan Danielson v Austin Aries (06-24-04 – ROH – Philly) The first is a testament to Evans for his willingness to be stretched out like he was. It is also a testament to Danielson for working mostly holds on the mat yet using such a variety that they never lost the crowd and were still focused. Alex Shelley is a terrific wrestler. I enjoy a lot of his work. But the one thing I see consistently is his want to use freaked out submission holds for the sole purpose of being different. His 7/31/04 IWA-MS with Petey Wiliams showed a lot of focus to his submission holds on the arm. I can only hope that he will continue to grow instead of just using the holds for a cheap pop. Danielson doesn’t have that problem here and in fact, he become probably the best guy in the world that I have seen working “rest holds” such as chin locks in being able to use them for rest but keep them interesting by stretching them deeper or just constantly showing he is working the move. The Aries match is a testament to not wanting to blow through anything since it is their first encounter. Danielson’s control run of grounding Aries is better than anything that praised mat workers such as Dean Malenko have ever done (and Malenko was hardly a good mat worker). The Aries match also brought Aries to the forefront. He didn’t have to use his quick indy innovation moves to get over. His well executed brainbuster garnered an awesome nearfall. Well executed, simple moves, when done correctly and at the right time will pop a crowd ten times as much as a tope plancha into a spinning backbreaker. ****. Bryan Danielson v Arik Cannon (07-31-04 – IWA-MS) Cannon brings something to the table since he wants to be a heel and is willing to act like a heel. If that didn’t happen in this match, I would say this is on par with the 1/10/04 tag as the weakest of Danielson’s match. But the face versus heel makes the work more satisfying and compelling. ***1/4, leaning towards ***1/2. As Bryan Danielson continues to learn new techniques and excel as a wrestler, I expect to look back at these matches in 2 years and say, “These are good but look at what he is doing now” Danielson v Hero on 8-21-04 this weekend will be a test for Danielson in my mind. Hero’s method of work might be good for a select group of people but he fails to bring in the regular indy fan, where as Danielson has added so many facials and extra’s (such as when he is ready to execute a top rope belly to back, he looks at the crowd, waits a second, and unleashes, making sure they are able to be a part of it). I have my doubts if the Hero match will work, at least in a non-masturbatory way that most Hero matches work. I guess we will know after Saturday. **** Now I think we can all agree that Soutter will say that what was missing with all these matches is a Jarrett guitar spot and the Outsiders taking over the show. |
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3:33 PM Jul 11
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3:33 PM Jul 11
