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Lost God Discussion Thread; OOC for the Lost God RP
Topic Started: Jul 11 2011, 02:18 PM (6,723 Views)
Darkom
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Philosophizer

Greetings everyone. Seeing as how our main roleplay is a bit slow in getting started, I was wondering if anyone would care to have a small roleplay in the meantime. It's not going to be anything overly time consuming, so it should still be open to people with busy schedules. I am also imposing a five player maximum, not including myself, so if you would like to participate let me know. Spots are first come first serve. This is to keep activity manageable, so you don't have to sift through pages of text to stay involved.

The pace is most likely going to be fairly relaxed, but I would appreciate it if everyone could post consistently. If you do not think you'll be able to post at least two or three times a week, please reconsider signing up. If something comes up and you can no longer maintain activity, I understand, but I would rather leave someone behind than have everyone wait. I'd like to see a steady RP with committed players that we can depend on.

If you have any questions or suggestions, this is also the place to put them. Thanks.

Now, that said, on to the actual RP idea. :D


Quest for the Lost God


We have been abandoned by our God. She has left humanity to fend for itself against the Darkness. Our sins have disgusted our Creator, and as punishment we have been left to our fate. Is there nothing that can convince the Light to return? Nothing to fight off the Dark?

Scholars spoke of the world having been cast into darkness, ages ago, before the Church of Light banded humanity together to fight the evil. Prophets have warned us it would happen again, if we continued to lie, to steal, to kill one another. None of the High Kings believed them. Even the Church ignored the warnings, growing fat off the people they claimed to save. Now the day of reckoning has come and gone, and Darkness encroaches ever further upon the land.

The Lord of the Night has sent forth His minions to rain death upon the people of All World. From the fiery mountains to the north they came, evils of all shapes and sizes sweeping through the Golden Kingdoms. Vampires, orcs, and all manner of creatures have been sighted, destroying villages and slaying whatever stands in their path. Pestilence spreads from city to city, and famine has struck even the most fertile valleys.

The High Kings have forgotten old rivalries, forgiven ancient grudges to meet in the white castle of Sunkeep. The most powerful men of All World have gathered for a great council, to decide what they must do to fight off this great evil. Many wish to pray to the Creator for forgiveness, in hopes She shall return. Some suggest the Kings rally their armies and force the Lord of Death from their lands. Only one, the grandfatherly King of Wellay, has proposed a third option: seek out the Lost God, the Preserver, who is rumored to have saved humanity the last time Darkness ruled the land.

The council, after many days of deliberation, has agreed to a compromise. Every soldier in the Golden Kingdoms has begun the long march north, to fight off the growing wave of evil. Meanwhile, the call has gone out to every town hall, to every tavern and marketplace in the land that the High Kings are assembling a band of heroes, to quest for the Lost God. This group, perhaps the world's final salvation, is to meet with the King of Wellay at his island castle. From there it is rumored they will travel east, into the Unknown Lands, fighting their way past the servants of Darkness and searching for the Preserver.




Alrighty, well, that's the basic gist of the idea. Generic, yes, but also rather simple, and it should serve as a nice backdrop to whatever adventures we can call to mind. It is a typical Medieval fantasy setting, where I will only be giving the barest outline of a world. From there it is up to the six of us to develop the world as the story progresses. You will have complete freedom with your characters, make up whatever backstory you wish, as long as it doesn't directly contradict something I have laid down. We'll brainstorm things as we go, so everyone will have a hand in crafting our tale. I'll only direct us loosely through the main plot, so we have plenty of oppurtunities for side quests and skirmishes as we go.

It's a very generic plot and backstory, yes, but the idea is character interaction, not originality in setting. I wanted something loose enough to allow whatever your imaginations concoct. Any kind of fantasy trope is fine, but try and stay pretty simple with the vocabulary. Most of the known world is populated by humans, though there are elves and such, and the human language is basic English, so no characters named Azraelaphra, unless you have permission to make up a new race/culture. I'll be making a map shortly, but- like the setting- it won't be very specific, so there is room for other races and cultures.

Now then, there is more to say, but first I'd like to hear what you all think of the basic idea. Yay or nay? It's not too late to change anything, and it should be flexible enough that we can make things up as we go.
Edited by Darkom, Jul 20 2011, 04:46 PM.
Don't say the old lady screamed. Bring her on and let her scream. ~Mark Twain
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JasonSage
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I love the idea, this sounds great. I'm a particular fan of bringing religious ideas into stories and exploring people in this context. I'd love to join, I'll put together my character info.
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Evilpigeon
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I'm also probably up for this
Whoever said nothing was impossible never tried to slam a revolving door
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quirk
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'ello Darkom. I'm in for this. : )
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Ambrose51
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I'm definitely up. Generic fantasy worlds are so much fun. The possibilities! :twisted:
But mostly? The assorted plans at play here would be going very, very wrong due to the actions of a no-name, no-count, utterly talentless Magus by the name of Shirou Emiya. He had no magic worth mentioning, no combat experience of note, and no plan for or knowledge of the War he was about to enter. He did, however, have one trait that had derailed a countless number of such grand, far-reaching schemes throughout history.

You see, he really, really wanted to be a hero. -(Best description of the start of a Fate novel ever.)
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Darkom
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Alrighty, sounds good people. We've got four already, that leaves one spot open, with one more potential one if need be. I do have the basic map drawn up on my desk, complete with geography and loose political borders, including major cities. I'll have that uploaded for everyone to reference soon, but in the meantime we can get some brainstorming done. Your characters are up to you, to be unveiled before the start of the RP, but for now we can get some of the basic worldbuilding stuff out of the way.

First up, we'll need to answer some basic questions. I'll give the topic and my own thoughts, then you guys can discuss what you think of them. We'll eventually need to figure out, at least: magic system, time period (technology level), and overall culture.

We'll start with the magic system, as I know some of you are bound to have magic wielding characters. Wouldn't be fantasy without it, so let's take some time to decide how we want it to work. Obviously we can't get too specific, for the same reason I'm giving everyone the oppurtunity to name their own hometown and whatnot. Some ground rules, however, are necessary:

What is the cost of using spells? Do mages have reserves of energy within themselves that they gradually use up? Or do they channel it from something else? If it's their own energy, is it physical or spiritual? How do they recover it? Is it inherent in the world, or is it a part of some alternate, divine plane? How do they access it?

A lot to think about, but we do have easy enough solutions. Again, I don't want to get too specific, so I'd say go with the generic, Tes-like wizard. Here is my proposition: Mana is a finite energy stored by the mage that is burnt like calories when the mage casts spells. This mana is separate from physical energy, but casting does fatigue the mage. Using magic requires the mage to concentrate, in order to draw the magic out from within themselves, so it is difficult to do on the fly. It recovers naturally, over time, or more quickly with potions. It is a natural part of the world, just like gravity, that is accessed through the mage's mind/soul.

Now, onto the actual casting of spells. Does it require a verbal incantation? A long ritual? Or does it depend on the complexity of the spell? Can multiple spells be cast at once? Can spells be stored for later use, on a scroll or enchanted onto an artifact?

Again, I'd say just go for generic fantasy stuff here. Verbal incantations are the norm, but high level wizards don't need them. Super powerful spells require some kind of ritual. Multiple spells is difficult, but not impossible, though it is dangerous, as the caster can mix the two accidentally if their focus isn't strong enough. Scrolls and enchanted weapons and armor are costly but not overly rare.

And finally, divisions of magic: Are the spells divided into schools? Are any of these schools considered "Dark Magic"? Are different races/cultures better at particular schools of spells? Is there a Magic Guild? Or is magic considered dangerous and controlled by the state/church?

With this I'd say go for an altered Tes division. Alteration, Illusion, Destruction, Conjuration, Mysticism, Alchemy, etc. Necromancy is known, but is considered evil by the greater population. The Priests of Light use a special meditative form of magic, that requires a longer time to complete but to much more powerful effects at a lesser cost. There are special types of magic, like Divination, Shamanism, and Spirit Channeling, but they are not widely practiced. State sponsored Mages Guilds are located in major towns, along with priestly magic, and rogue mages are considered dangerous, to be apprehended by guildsman or inquisitors. Finally, humans are fairly good at most types of magic, while elves are better at "natural" schools, like Alteration and Alchemy, and the "minions of evil" are skilled at Destruction and Conjuration type things.


If you disagree with anything I've said so far, please let me know so we can deliberate. If you think of something awesome that I didn't cover in my general overview, feel free to run with it. I'd love to see how creative some of you can be with your mages. If you do have any special ideas, please run them by me before you implement them though. Thanks.
Edited by Darkom, Jul 11 2011, 10:01 PM.
Don't say the old lady screamed. Bring her on and let her scream. ~Mark Twain
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JasonSage
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I'd like to go ahead and opt-in on the necromancy area and start fleshing that out myself. I'm a particular fan of necromancy in Blizzard's Diablo series, and it's something that I find sadly lacking in the Elder Scrolls (something I'll fix in a mod when Skyrim comes out).

That said, I can prepare some descriptions and background information if anybody else is interested in a necro character, or just explain stuff as we go.

Also I'm not a particular fan of most magic systems out there, I'd prefer a mixture of quick/prepared incantations and long rituals for more powerful spells. Your altered ES magic system sounds fine with me.
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Ambrose51
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I personally prefer a system of magic where mana is inherent in the world, and a mage simply channels it, bypassing the internal reserves bit. Theoretically, this could make a mage much, much more powerful, but in practice, it just tends to mean that skill has to play a much more important role in how powerful a mage can become. Having internal mana reserves is too much of a gaming perspective than a literary one, to me. Though, that's just my opinion, and I've RPed long enough under the mana system that it wouldn't make a difference to me.

In terms of how the magic is used, I think the Nasuverse's system of incantation is my favorite on that matter. That is, the power of using a spell comes from a mage's thoughts. Verbal incantation makes it much easier, but what really matters is that the mage is willing something to happen, rather than saying a word and getting an effect. You can cast spells without an incant, it just makes it harder, since the incantation is the most efficient vehicle for the effect. Casting multiple spells at the same time is also possible, but much, much more difficult. Theoretically, that would allow for incanting one spell, while casting another purely mentally, which would really catch someone off guard, assuming the incantations are the same for everyone rather than person-specific. Rituals for very powerful spells seems natural. And all of that was really just a longer explanation for what you already said. ;)

As for the division of schools, I see no issue with using the TES set. Though, I would prefer being able to use more than simple ice, fire, and shock for Destruction. Why not include the classical elements? Everything else should probably be the same, though some consideration should be given to what, exactly, you'd be summoning with Conjuration. As a personal opinion, I detest the term Alteration, since it seems far too broad a word to use for magic, but that's just me.

Some thought should be given on the limitations you want to impose, however. D&D, among others, has magic that can manipulate time, teleport people, polymorph individuals, and some mages become so powerful that they can cast spells equivalent to a nuke. A line should be drawn to insure that mages can't go all "lolfireball" and kill everything, which is a problem in a lot of fantasy RPs I've been in.
But mostly? The assorted plans at play here would be going very, very wrong due to the actions of a no-name, no-count, utterly talentless Magus by the name of Shirou Emiya. He had no magic worth mentioning, no combat experience of note, and no plan for or knowledge of the War he was about to enter. He did, however, have one trait that had derailed a countless number of such grand, far-reaching schemes throughout history.

You see, he really, really wanted to be a hero. -(Best description of the start of a Fate novel ever.)
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Darkom
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I'm a necromancy fan myself, but we don't want three people running around summoning undead, so that's all up to you if you choose that. Oblivion had some good necromancy mods though, so I'm sure Skyrim will also feature plenty.

I agree with most of what you're saying, Ambrose, I just don't like the idea of a mage having unlimited magic reserves. Mages are powerful enough without giving them that. And yeah, you can be as creative as you like in the spell department; not everything has to fit perfectly into a school. I don't like putting too much emphasis on classifying spells, so I wouldn't worry about calling it Alteration or what have you.

I think we all know what ubering is, especially with mages, so we should be okay in that respect. If you have a super spell like time control, that had better be your only spell like that, and it should have reasonable limits. I don't anticipate that being a huge problem here.


Anyway, hopefully we can begin the RP early next week, so go ahead and start thinking of character ideas. I'll put the first draft of the map up today (if I can get my scanner to work), along with some more detail on the basics of the world. Speaking of, at the moment, the elves are going to be kind of like jungle natives to the "civilized" humans. The only places of theirs humans see are their trading ports on the coast, which will be our first stop on our journey east. The only elves outside of the eastern jungles are the sea elves, which live on some of the nearby islands and do most of the trading. Some of these can be found in human port towns, so if you want an elf not born in a jungle, that's your ticket there. Thanks.
Don't say the old lady screamed. Bring her on and let her scream. ~Mark Twain
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quirk
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Well, technically the magic system in ES is actually a mixture of the two magic systems you both have proposed: Mana comes from the sun and fills the world from it. It's the source of magical potential that mages have in general, but they absorb the mana to use it. With that, those who are trained to be mages have two talents which must be maintained: the ability to absorb this mana (which some are simply more talented at due to the conditions of birth) and the ability to use it in the form of magical spells and actions. When a mage runs out of mana, what they need is to draw back in mana reserves from the world around them.

Of course, I'm not making a suggestion of a magic system. I'm just mentioning that the magic system, lorewise, in the Elder Scrolls is quite conveniently right between both systems you two proposed. :P
Edited by quirk, Jul 12 2011, 11:36 AM.
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Duke Smugleaf
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First: Hello everyone. I'm new here (if you couldn't tell). Darkom recruited me elsewhere.


Second: As for the magic system, I have never liked TES magic, personally. It was designed with the sole purpose of letting one character do everything, as is the norm with TES. I'd much rather go with D&D organization (though not specific spells, for obvious reasons). First off, there are multiple branches of magic, the main ones being Arcane and Divine. As the others, like Eldritch, Shadow, and Wild magic, are just too complicated for a simple RP, so we'll ignore them.

Arcane magic is drawn from the mana weave which could, realistically, either be a natural phenomenon or, like with D&D, created and maintained by a god. Though, you don't need to be religious to use it. It is composed of a balance of offensive, defensive, status, summoning, and necromancy spells, with the offensive spells being mainly elemental in nature, with the occasional sonic spell. It is split into eight schools: Abjuration for all your defensive needs; Conjuration for summoning monsters and other things; Divination for if you want to be entirely useless; Enchantment for various mind-affecting effects, like charms and compulsions; Evocation for if you just want to blow shit up; Illusion for, well, illusions; Necromancy for the undead raising and the nifty death-effects; and Transmutation for all that lovely body mutations, like polymorphing or buffs. The tricky part is that you have to specialize in one, giving you extra powers with that school, while prohibiting two others. The only exception is with Divination. If you specialize in that, you can only prohibit one school. You may also never prohibit Divination, I guess because then everyone would prohibit Divination, otherwise.

Divine magic, as its name suggests, is magic granted by a deity. The difference it has over Arcane magic is that while it's not as useful offensively, it has better defensive and status spells, in addition to being the only magic that can heal. It is further split into two distinct forms: clerical and druidic magic. The former has better healing, defensive, status, and, oddly enough, necromancy spells, than even what Arcane magic has, while the latter is more jack-of-all-trades, with better offensive spells than clerical magic, though still not as good as Arcane magic, and the best summoning spells. Clerical magic is much more pure, being directly granted by a deity, while druidic magic is given in a round-a-bout manner by serving and protecting nature.

Honestly, I think it's just better. That way, even if we have, like, four spellcasters, they can still be very different from one another.

Third: I think we should stick with incantations as being necessary for magic and spellcasting. That way I can use my much beloved psionics without it being outclassed by magic in almost every way. One of the key features of psionics is that since it's a power from the mind while magic is channeled and formed from outside, it's quicker and easier to use. Though, it's not as versatile and doesn't have as many potential options, like not having any Illusion or Necromancy parallel and a greatly reduced Conjuration parallel.
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Ambrose51
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@Darkom That's fair enough, regarding mana. I have no issue with it. Regarding ubering, well, you would hope so, but I've DMed a few RPs over the years that have been ruined by people that were otherwise trustworthy, thinking they found a way to be awesome with magic, so I tend to be paranoid about that.

@DukeSmugleaf I would support D&D organization, except I absolutely loathe divine magic. That aside, I don't think it would work in this case anyway, since there appears to be only one, perhaps two gods in this setting, one of which has "abandoned" the people. It seems far more like Dragon Age than TES or D&D. That said, if you were to lump divine magic in with arcane in some manner, it would probably be more feasible. In all honesty, however, since most people here are likely TES fans, most of them would probably want to use the TES system of magic over D&D. EDIT: Also, welcome to the forums!

In terms of incantation, again, my favorite form is from the Nasuverse. That is, a magus uses an incantation to achieve an effect, however, no incantation is the same for each person. The way it works is that there are four basic types of spell incants. Instant effect, with no words required, merely thought. Single line, for basic spells that require more concentration. Five-line, for intermediate to advanced spells. And ten-line, for the most advanced spells you can possibly use. A ten-line spell is right on the border of requiring a ritual. The words of the spells aren't really significant, what's important is what the incantation means to you. The incant has to have significance to each person. It should represent what the person is like, essentially, since using magic in the Nasuverse is basically forcing your view of reality onto the world.

The ten-line aria is used for all spells, but if you're casting a single-line spell, then you'd only speak the first line of the ten-line aria. This allows for highly personalized spell incants that don't use the horribly cliche spell names like "fireball" or "lightning bolt" that just sound absolutely ridiculous to say out loud. At the same time, it doesn't require that much work, since you're only coming up with ten lines at maximum, and probably not even that, since most mages don't reach that level. It should be noted that it doesn't have to be one, five, and ten-line arias. Those are simply the rankings. You can have a nine-line aria, and it would be classified the same as a ten-line. Basically, whichever of the three it's closest to.

An example of a spell, just to help (This one is from a battle-priest.):

Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by Ambrose51, Jul 12 2011, 01:10 PM.
But mostly? The assorted plans at play here would be going very, very wrong due to the actions of a no-name, no-count, utterly talentless Magus by the name of Shirou Emiya. He had no magic worth mentioning, no combat experience of note, and no plan for or knowledge of the War he was about to enter. He did, however, have one trait that had derailed a countless number of such grand, far-reaching schemes throughout history.

You see, he really, really wanted to be a hero. -(Best description of the start of a Fate novel ever.)
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Duke Smugleaf
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That aside, I don't think it would work in this case anyway, since there appears to be only one, perhaps two gods in this setting, one of which has "abandoned" the people.
Riiiiight. Forgot that point. :P

This "aria" thing just seems like a lot of unnecessary padding to me. It doesn't really add anything other than fluff the post out to make it look bigger and grander than it actually is. All spells should be no more than a few words for convenience sake that's just repeated if necessary for longer spells.
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Ambrose51
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Duke Smugleaf
Jul 12 2011, 01:17 PM
This "aria" thing just seems like a lot of unnecessary padding to me. It doesn't really add anything other than fluff the post out to make it look bigger and grander than it actually is. All spells should be no more than a few words for convenience sake that's just repeated if necessary for longer spells.
Well, that quote also has some abnormally long lines. Most spells are one-count, and the incant is usually no more than five words. That character just likes being dramatic. For an aria, the person determines what their own incant is like. It can be long, or short, it really depends on the personality of the person.
But mostly? The assorted plans at play here would be going very, very wrong due to the actions of a no-name, no-count, utterly talentless Magus by the name of Shirou Emiya. He had no magic worth mentioning, no combat experience of note, and no plan for or knowledge of the War he was about to enter. He did, however, have one trait that had derailed a countless number of such grand, far-reaching schemes throughout history.

You see, he really, really wanted to be a hero. -(Best description of the start of a Fate novel ever.)
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Darkom
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Yes, Quirk, that's what I meant to say. :P

That sounds cool, Duke, but like Ambrose said, it'd be difficult to implement here. The whole point of creating such a generic universe is so not everyone has to know the setting to play. If we just did Tes, or just did DnD, you'd almost have to play those in order to understand some of the things. I'd rather just keep things generic enough that people can use their own ideas. I just based it on Tes because it's pretty simple, doesn't require much explanation or research. The DnD system sounds cool, but I don't want to force people to learn it. Hopefully we won't have enough spellcasters to make that a problem. If everyone tries to be a mage, some people may have to reconsider, because a band of mages never solved anything (they usually end up making it worse, by summoning a demon or something).

I was thinking something along those lines for incantations, Ambrose. Once again, however, I don't want to force people to make up poems whenever they want to cast a spell. If you want to play a mage, feel free to use that system, but for others I'm going to say you can decide on your own incantation system. Like you said, it's what it means to the mage that matters.


In other news, the basic geography map is done. It's not pretty, only made worse by my scanner, but it should work for our purposes. I've got the cities map on my desk as well, and I'll make a purely political one as well.

Geographical Map of All World

A quick key: Brown is hilly or elevated terrain, the gray shaded triangles are mountains, light green is arable land, dark green is fertile land or (in the southeast) jungle. Blue is obviously water, and the yellow is desert. I hope that map is good for everyone.

Keep in mind, our starting point is going to be on the southern coast there, either in Sunkeep itself, or on the island of Wellay. I'll lable both in a later map. Our destination is that eastern coast with all the little islands, and the Unknown Lands are beyond that, off the border of the map. That eastern coast is also home to the elves, with the Sea Elves living on the islands there, and the Jungle Elves on the mainland. They'll still be Tolkien style in appearance, the distinction is more economical than anything.
Edited by Darkom, Jul 12 2011, 01:28 PM.
Don't say the old lady screamed. Bring her on and let her scream. ~Mark Twain
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Duke Smugleaf
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Eh, whatever. I'm going with psionics, anyways. Fuck yeah! Psionics!


That map looks remarkably like Europe. Or Middle-earth. Which is pretty much just a Europe clone... :/
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Darkom
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Duke Smugleaf
Jul 12 2011, 01:32 PM
Eh, whatever. I'm going with psionics, anyways. Fuck yeah! Psionics!


That map looks remarkably like Europe. Or Middle-earth. Which is pretty much just a Europe clone... :/
Do whatever you'd like, I just hope we don't end up with a bunch of mages when there are so many other oppurtunities. Knights, assassins, pirates, kings, tailors, rangers, the list goes on and on.

Well, it's meant to be a generic fantasy map for our generic fantasy world. If I'd wanted to make it look like Europe, it would have, but I figured this was different enough. I really see only a vague resemblance to parts of Europe. I think it looks more like the Wheel of Time map than anything.


Anyway, does anyone have anything else to say about the base magic system? If not, we'll move on to time period.

Keeping with the stereotypical fantasy theme, I was going to go with Medieval European technology levels. Feudalism, manorialism, knights, castles, galleys, moldboard plows, an economy based on bartering, etc. The Church of the Light is similar to the Papacy, but without as much real authority. There are no crusades, in other words.

That also means guilds for trade goods and shipping, urbanization is low compared to rural populations, and lords rule over manorial estates but answer to the king of their country. Mostly feudal monarchs, perhaps with some absolute rulers for smaller states, and maybe a rare oligarchical council. There are vassal states, and the whole kingdom works on the lord-vassal relationship of feudalism.

The Sea Elves dominate long distance ocean trade, using superior, deeper drafted, triangular sailed ships (similar to Arabian Dhows). While some human states hold maritime empires, most ships cannot go too far out from the coast, with rivers being the major mode of transportation within states.

Speaking of elves, I meant for them to have more of a loose tribal nation overseen by spiritual elders in a council.

The greatest of the High Kings (which are the kings of various countries) is the ruler of Sunkeep, who also holds power over the Church of Light, which is also based from that city.


Any other suggestions, or things that I said that you disagree with?
Don't say the old lady screamed. Bring her on and let her scream. ~Mark Twain
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Duke Smugleaf
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Do whatever you'd like, I just hope we don't end up with a bunch of mages ...
Psions aren't mages. They don't possess magic.
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Ambrose51
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That sounds good to me. I'm all for keeping it medieval in terms of technology level.

How many kingdoms are we talking about here? Has there been a long history of warfare between the different kingdoms (Which would probably create grudges between people from different areas.), or are things mostly peaceful? That's really the only thing I'm curious about.
But mostly? The assorted plans at play here would be going very, very wrong due to the actions of a no-name, no-count, utterly talentless Magus by the name of Shirou Emiya. He had no magic worth mentioning, no combat experience of note, and no plan for or knowledge of the War he was about to enter. He did, however, have one trait that had derailed a countless number of such grand, far-reaching schemes throughout history.

You see, he really, really wanted to be a hero. -(Best description of the start of a Fate novel ever.)
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Duke Smugleaf
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The OP pretty much answers that, except for the number of kingdoms:
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The High Kings have forgotten old rivalries, forgiven ancient grudges to meet in the white castle of Sunkeep.
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