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Roleplaying Discussion; General RPing Topics
Topic Started: Oct 5 2011, 07:27 PM (376 Views)
Darkom
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Philosophizer

We have a place for random discussions, book discussions, and even video game discussions, but as of yet, we have no RPing discussions. You would think that a place that has devolved into an essentially roleplaying forum would at leasy have that, wouldn't you? :P

As such, here is a thread to talk about all things roleplaying: the characters, stories, worlds, etc. Anything is fair game as long as it has to do with RPing. :)

Now then, onto the purpose for making such a thread: to find out what you all think makes for a successful roleplay. I have seen many RPs get sick and die- too many, in fact- but I have only seen a few that go on and prosper. Never, in all my years of doing this, have I ever participated in an RP that actually ran to its planned conclusion. The monster is never slain, the magical gem never recovered; they all die before the heroes get a chance to defeat the evil mage. The reasons RPs die are obvious, a lack of interest or getting hung up on waiting for someone to post, but the reasons for them being a smashing success aren't quite as clear cut. So, since most of you have much more experience in this thatn I, what do you all think it takes to make a truly glorious RP?

Thanks. ;)
Don't say the old lady screamed. Bring her on and let her scream. ~Mark Twain
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Evilpigeon
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Apprentice
I think the biggest issue is the delay caused whilst waiting for other people to post, many of the rps I've seen succeed have been things like war rps where there're always actions to be taken or plans to be made, irrespective of what everyone else is doing. They also have the advantage of being somewhat competitive so you aren't so reliant on coming up with an intriguing plot to entertain people. In the same way, for more story driven roleplays, the thing that really makes them succeed is an extremely active Game Master, again because it allows people much more flexibility and opportunity to go off on their own or in small groups. Big clusters of people together quickly become unwieldy and congested because you often can't post when you have the time due to waiting on someone else.
Edited by Evilpigeon, Oct 6 2011, 05:32 AM.
Whoever said nothing was impossible never tried to slam a revolving door
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Ambrose51
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The Resident Horror Enthusiast

Indeed, I've found it mostly comes down to what EvilPigeon suggests. Granted, I've seen plenty of private RPs succeed just fine, but by nature, those are far more likely to reach a conclusion. Of course, I've seen a handful of regular RPs finish, and I've even been in two, but both of those RPs went short and fast, and didn't last long enough to reach the point where most people would drop from boredom.
But mostly? The assorted plans at play here would be going very, very wrong due to the actions of a no-name, no-count, utterly talentless Magus by the name of Shirou Emiya. He had no magic worth mentioning, no combat experience of note, and no plan for or knowledge of the War he was about to enter. He did, however, have one trait that had derailed a countless number of such grand, far-reaching schemes throughout history.

You see, he really, really wanted to be a hero. -(Best description of the start of a Fate novel ever.)
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Half Tooth
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Painter
I've only ever been in one that got to the end, it started with about 20 people and ended with just 4, the last 4 of us though were completely dedicated to the RP and our characters, the last half of it was done by 4 people. We had multiple characters so we could bounce our own characters off one another if no one else was around to post.

Generally speaking though I think the maker needs to be active, needs to keep throwing things at the rest of the players. I think the players themselves need to be active.
Basically the level of enthusiasm shouldn't drop too much, and there should always be something new. It does help when the players outside of their characters get on. The story does kind of matter, but if you have good RPers they can make anything itneresting.

The main problem I think with the beginning of RPs is learning everyone elses character, assosciating the player with that character name, working out what they look like and such.... because you don't just have to do it 2 or three times, you have to do it several times and personally I find it inturupts my flow when I'm posting. But that's just how I work. Maybe some more discussion about characters before the RP begins would help this... I don't know.

To sum up, I think:
Small number of players
Active players + Active maker
Lots of enthusiasm :D
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Colonel Mustard
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Lord of Facial Hair
To add onto Toothy's little equation, I'd also add well structured, coherent idea for the story from the start. People being confused about what's going on when you actually start out is bad for general motivation, but if you have a clear idea of what you're doing and one that people are engaged with and enthusiastic about then it's much better that way.
"Pillage, then burn."-Rule 1 of Habits of Highly Effective Pirates
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Duke Smugleaf
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Celestial Princess
Darkom
Oct 5 2011, 07:27 PM
Never, in all my years of doing this, have I ever participated in an RP that actually ran to its planned conclusion.
I have, just recently, even. Well, I suppose that depends on your perception of goals. I participated in one RP called "Elfen High," which did, indeed, get finished. Then, there was a sequel which was also completed. At that point, it was planned for there to ultimately be five arcs to the RP, but the third one died.

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The reasons RPs die are obvious, a lack of interest or getting hung up on waiting for someone to post, ...

This one died because one of the players was a complete dickwad and ruined it for everyone. He just bitched about everything that didn't go his way, and nothing went his way. What's more is that he was so unbelievably arrogant that he proclaims that it was everyone but him who ruined the RP. :/

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... but the reasons for them being a smashing success aren't quite as clear cut.

The first two arcs were a complete success for two reasons: enthusiasm and a character-driven plot. Plus, people posted quite frequently, like 80 posts per day frequently. That way, the RP was finished in only a couple of weeks, tops, before the enthusiasm dried up.

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So, since most of you have much more experience in this thatn I, what do you all think it takes to make a truly glorious RP?

Post. A lot. And don't railroad people.


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In the same way, for more story driven roleplays, the thing that really makes them succeed is an extremely active Game Master, ...

That really applies to all RPs. Elfen High was very action-heavy with little story, and when the story did pop up, no one cared about it. However, the GM was very active and posted all the time, and I think that is one of the things that ensured it was a success.


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We had multiple characters so we could bounce our own characters off one another if no one else was around to post.

Yes, that helps, too. It really opens the doors for more character interaction. It also ensures that almost everyone can have something going on with almost everyone else, so that it doesn't matter who is on, there are always at least two characters who can post.
For example, at my height in the second arc of Elfen High, I had seven different characters all going around doing stuff.

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The story does kind of matter, but if you have good RPers they can make anything itneresting.

Nah, the story doesn't really matter in the least. This is an RP, not a book. In an RP, the story is only of secondary concern, if not tertiary. The most important part of an RP is the characters and their interactions. If you can set up different relationships between all the characters, you can just play off of them and continue on indefinitely. That's why so many of the long TV series are slice-of-life. There is no overarching story, and the show is completely episodic. However, they are still successful and still continue on into the double digit seasons. That's because they build up the characters, and then simply throw those characters into different situations and let it all play out. Even in a book, characters are ultimately far more important than the story.

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Small number of players

More players is better because some will inevitably drop out for one reason or another. Sure, it'll start out chaotic, but when the ancillary players are stripped away, you'll have plenty of characters left to form your dedicated base. If you start with only nine players, and two thirds of them drop out, you won't have enough to continue on. If, however, you start with eighteen players and two thirds of them drop out, you'll still have plenty. Yes, the first ten or so pages will be a big clusterfuck, but it's ultimately worth it. It's better to have ten pages of insanity followed by forty pages of quality material and a conclusion than five pages of quality material and a dead RP.


Quote:
 
To add onto Toothy's little equation, I'd also add well structured, coherent idea for the story from the start. People being confused about what's going on when you actually start out is bad for general motivation, but if you have a clear idea of what you're doing and one that people are engaged with and enthusiastic about then it's much better that way.

Not at all. A structured story leads to railroading, and railroading leads to pissed off players. The more flexible and undefined the story is, the more the players will enjoy it. Like I said earlier, this isn't a book. It's not story-driven. RPs are, by their very nature, inherently character-driven, and the more control over the RP the characters have, the more the players will enjoy it. Players want the freedom to do whatever they want, and if you take away that freedom with railroading, they get upset. If the players are walking down a path to the next town to meet with the king for whatever reason, they don't want invisible walls constructed on the sides of that path. Maybe they'll see a cave off in the distance and want to go see if it has any treasure in it. If you prevent them from going to that cave, you'll only get them upset and build up hostility between them and the GM, and that hostility will inevitably leak out and infect the rest of the RP. In an RP setting, the GM may have ultimate authority, but the one power that the players have, the power to leave, is the most devastating of them all. Thus, the GM must take every precaution to placate the players, and the best way to do this is to give them freedom. No one likes tyranny, and that extends to the game.
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Vanir
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I've only ever been in one RP that followed through to the end, and I joined it when it was 90% over when I joined anyway.
<insert witty comment here>
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Duke Smugleaf
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Celestial Princess
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Oct 7 2011, 10:52 PM
... and I joined it when it was 90% over when I joined anyway.
Welcome to the Department of Redundancy Department. You may place your coat over there on the coat rack designed to hang coats and then join me in my office that I work in.
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Vanir
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How clever.
<insert witty comment here>
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Colonel Mustard
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Quote:
 

Not at all. A structured story leads to railroading, and railroading leads to pissed off players. The more flexible and undefined the story is, the more the players will enjoy it. Like I said earlier, this isn't a book. It's not story-driven. RPs are, by their very nature, inherently character-driven, and the more control over the RP the characters have, the more the players will enjoy it. Players want the freedom to do whatever they want, and if you take away that freedom with railroading, they get upset. If the players are walking down a path to the next town to meet with the king for whatever reason, they don't want invisible walls constructed on the sides of that path. Maybe they'll see a cave off in the distance and want to go see if it has any treasure in it. If you prevent them from going to that cave, you'll only get them upset and build up hostility between them and the GM, and that hostility will inevitably leak out and infect the rest of the RP. In an RP setting, the GM may have ultimate authority, but the one power that the players have, the power to leave, is the most devastating of them all. Thus, the GM must take every precaution to placate the players, and the best way to do this is to give them freedom. No one likes tyranny, and that extends to the game.

Perhaps I should have rephrased that as a good 'loose' structure to the RP, as in an idea of starting point 'A' and ending point 'Z' with perhaps a few points like 'H' and 'M' but then plenty of room left for variation, freedom to piddle around and ideas for 'Z' to suddenly become 'lambda' according to how the players have messed up the GM's plans this time. Railroading sucks, I'll agree, but you need a rough idea of what is going to be happening in the RP at certain points, even if it is just the beginning and the end.
Edited by Colonel Mustard, Oct 8 2011, 06:37 PM.
"Pillage, then burn."-Rule 1 of Habits of Highly Effective Pirates
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Darkom
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Philosophizer

I actually find I prefer RPs with a smaller number of characters. Most RPs I've been in have been huge in character number, with so much posting and interaction people get lost very easily unless they are incredibly active. Then, as people drop out, other characters get stuck as the person they are waiting on dropped off already, and they in turn leave. Then the whole RP crumbles apart.

Smaller RPs, on the other hand, are usually much more intimate and manageable paced. Most people know each other, at least in part, and can usually be depended upon to stick it out no matter what. Even if it doesn't go quite as quickly, it ends up being a richer experience than a bunch of one liner posts by hopeless newbs.

Of course, in the end, I think a halfway point is best. A balance between an RP crowded with the inexperienced and a understaffed cast of veterans has the best chance of succeeding, at least in my opinion.
Don't say the old lady screamed. Bring her on and let her scream. ~Mark Twain
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Duke Smugleaf
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Celestial Princess
Darkom
Oct 16 2011, 03:39 PM
I actually find I prefer RPs with a smaller number of characters. Most RPs I've been in have been huge in character number, with so much posting and interaction people get lost very easily unless they are incredibly active. Then, as people drop out, other characters get stuck as the person they are waiting on dropped off already, and they in turn leave. Then the whole RP crumbles apart.

Smaller RPs, on the other hand, are usually much more intimate and manageable paced. Most people know each other, at least in part, and can usually be depended upon to stick it out no matter what. Even if it doesn't go quite as quickly, it ends up being a richer experience than a bunch of one liner posts by hopeless newbs.

Of course, in the end, I think a halfway point is best. A balance between an RP crowded with the inexperienced and a understaffed cast of veterans has the best chance of succeeding, at least in my opinion.
The elitism! It burns! :ohshi:
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Vanir
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>promoting balance
>elitism

Pray tell, how is that elitism? He's not saying "this is the only way to do an RP and anyone who does something else should be shot."
<insert witty comment here>
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Duke Smugleaf
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Celestial Princess
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Oct 17 2011, 03:54 PM
>promoting balance
>elitism

Pray tell, how is that elitism? He's not saying "this is the only way to do an RP and anyone who does something else should be shot."
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... it ends up being a richer experience than a bunch of one liner posts by hopeless newbs.

>Implying that people who participate in smaller RPs are better and more skilled than the people who participate in large RPs.
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Darkom
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Philosophizer

I suppose that is true for most of the ones I've been in. At this point, I usually only RP with people that have been doing it for several years. Between here and BGSF, I don't think I've RPed with a "newb" in quite some time. :P

You can have a large RP with skilled people, just like you can have a small RP with god awful writers. What I do not like, though, is huge RPs filled with people that don't know what they're doing, and drop out unexpectedly. I suppose I don't mind people that don't have skill, as long as they're willing to learn and actually put effort into it. The only thing that bothers me is when people quit, or don't care. I suppose not all new RPers are like that, but most of the ones I've seen are.

I'd rather RP with mature people than good writers any day, though being a skilled RPer always helps. :)
Don't say the old lady screamed. Bring her on and let her scream. ~Mark Twain
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Vanir
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Duke Smugleaf
Oct 17 2011, 04:57 PM
Vanir
Oct 17 2011, 03:54 PM
>promoting balance
>elitism

Pray tell, how is that elitism? He's not saying "this is the only way to do an RP and anyone who does something else should be shot."
Quote:
 
... it ends up being a richer experience than a bunch of one liner posts by hopeless newbs.

>Implying that people who participate in smaller RPs are better and more skilled than the people who participate in large RPs.
You must be one sorry, cynical bastard if that's what you got from what he said.
<insert witty comment here>
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