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WarioWare D.I.Y. Discussion; Also WW D.I.Y. Showcase
Topic Started: Mar 31 2010, 10:57 PM (1,381 Views)
Project: Shadow
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Egg Robo
Heh, maybe. I haven't had much luck coming up with stuff to continue an original series of battles so I've been working on recreating robot master battles from the games to get the hang of it. I wanted to include as many different robot masters as possible to give each micro game more variety, but there's no way I could do four at a time. Three might be barely possible, but would require the game to be more simple than I wanted to make it. I made one with two with only Mega Man playable, but given this experience I think one robot master at a time is best.

I wanted you to be able to choose from several different robot master weapons to attack with, fire your Mega Buster, and jump (maybe slide) to dodge attacks. Well, I got that all in there (except slide) as touch screen controls like I intended, but the problem is there's no AI left for the robot masters to actually attack you with. So jumping serves no purpose (neither does the Mega Buster really, but I might can fix that later).

Here's what I did get to work, though (for those besides Bermuda who can't download the game). Mega Man starts on the left side of the stage with nothing else but an empty health bar visible in the top right corner and a large boulder behind him. When the game starts, the health bar fills up and the robot master (Cut Man or Bomb Man in this game) falls down to the stage from above. The robot master then stands idle while you choose what to do (Rolling Cutter, Super Arm, Hyper Bomb, Fire [Mega Buster], and Jump). If you attempt to use their weapon (Rolling Cutter against Cut Man) the stage shakes and makes a buzzing sound (there's no need to use their weapon against them as it's not effective plus there's not enough game objects to allow you to do so). If you jump, Mega Man jumps only once (still working on jumping mechanics) and if you fire he shoots three Mega Buster shots (which don't really do anything). Use Hyper Bomb against Cut Man and the bomb will explode on contact but not really do anything. Use Super Arm and Mega Man will toss the boulder that's behind him into Cut Man, it will crumble on contact, and Cut Man will take damage and the health bar will go to zero. Use Rolling Cutter to make Mega Man fire the cutter at Bomb Man for the same effect (Rolling Cutter is his weakness in Powered Up, and there's limited room for weapons here). Doing so wins the micro game.

Anyway, so I've learned a lot about the limits of what you can and can't do in making this game. I was pretty cheap with the background again, but that'll change when I start making my own palettes. I used the maestro feature again for Frenzied, 8-Bit music and got some great music that seriously sounds like a robot master battle theme (I'm still working on making my own music and making a little progress here and there). So far I've had no problems finding the sound effects I need when I need them either. Next I intend to start making micro games for singular battles with each of the six original robot masters (including Cut Man and Bomb Man separately). This will allow the robot masters to attack and jump to avoid Mega Man's attacks with Mega Man doing the same. I'd like for it to be possible, though difficult, to beat them with the Mega Buster too. Right now I'm just doing these to get used to making micro games. I want to do more original stuff eventually. Y'all need to get WarioWare D.I.Y.! It's awesome! (Sorry for the wall of text again. ^_^; )
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Super Bermuda
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RhinoBot
I just downloaded that game and it's pretty impressive. I still have to learn how to make a random character appear, like how you have either Cut Man or Bomb Man appear. I really like how the health bar fills up at the start. If there was room for more AI, I thought it might have been cool if Cut Man was jumping up and down, making him a harder target. Also it would have been cool if the robot masters exploded like they do in the Mega Man games after you beat them. Not exactly sure how you would go about animating that. Just get a little circle sprite and have maybe six of them fly outwards from the guy once he's hit? Might not be possible.

I was thinking of adding to my pokemon catching game. Right now, you just tap Charizard and a pokeball is thrown and you have won. I was thinking of changing it up so that you have to decrease Charizard's health before you catch it. Like tap on Charizard and your pokemon attacks, but tap too many times and it may faint, thus getting you the loss. I think I can manage that, but I have more complicated ideas that may or may not be possible.
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CHAOSGAMMA
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Leon
Wow, you're games sound awesome! I've gotta get my FC so I can try them out. Maybe I can tonight. I haven't gotten anywhere in making my own games yet, but I should have more time to work on it next week after I finish with my class. See, I've gotta finish our semester long group project that has to be presented on Monday, then I'll be done. Done... with... my undergrad degree!
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Project: Shadow
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Egg Robo
Thanks. Yeah, if it were just one robot master I'd probably be able to make them jump to dodge your attacks while dishing out a few of their own. I thought about the way they explode too. It's not impossible at all, but somewhat difficult and would probably require a lot of your own animating rather than having the circle sprite move by AI. You can do a lot of somewhat complicated animations by having an animation play after another animation finishes playing. That's what I was originally going to do with the health bar, but I opted for making it time-based instead.

As for making things random, it's one of those things you'd probably never figure out on your own. Luckily, it's the topic of two of the last challenges in the Assembly Dojo (you should definitely do all of those as they teach you by letting you figure it out with hints). Here's what you do. You make an object that's going to be your random switch. It can be a completely blank object off to the side or you can use the AI of any object you that doesn't have anything going on with it's switch. I used blank objects before, but on my latest game the health bar is actually the random switch. For the random switch AI, make two triggers. Both of them must be time triggers. The first one will be to start exactly at 1-1. The second one will be to start randomly between 1-1 and 1-2. The action they trigger will be to turn the switch on. It's kind of confusing, but basically you've made there be a 50% chance that the switch of the object will turn on when the game starts. Then the two objects you want to alternate between use that switch as a trigger. For example, when the health bar switch is off and the time is 1-3, Cut Man falls down to the stage, but if the health bar switch is on and the time is 1-3, Bomb Man falls down to the stage.

The random factor in the Yoshi game is actually even more complicated and took me a while to figure out. You would think you could just make the triggers to start exactly at 1-1 and randomly between 1-1 and 1-3 to give you more possibilities, but that's not how it works. Doing that would just lessen the chances of the switch turning on (making it a 33.3% chance I think). To make something random by alternating between three or more objects (like the different fruit in my Feed Yoshi game), you need more objects (another blank object or another object not using it's switch for something). You set the triggers the same for each object (start exactly at 1-1 and start randomly between 1-1 and 1-2), but the objects they affect must take both switches into consideration. So if Blank Object A switch is on and Blank Object B switch is off, an apple will appear, if Blank Object A switch is off and Blank Object B switch is on, a peach will appear, if Blank Object A switch is off and Blank Object B switch is off, grapes will appear, and if Blank Object A switch is on and Blank Object B switch is on, cherries will appear. Make any sense? That's basically how the whole random thing works and you can use it to do anything. I might even make it so you don't whether a robot master is going to jump or attack because it'll be random. In short, don't doubt what WarioWare D.I.Y. can do. It's awesome. XD

The three of us gotta get together in chat to further discuss making micro games soon! Also, we'll have to get online simultaneously to finalize our friend registration, Gamma. Let me know when you can do so. I shouldn't have to work too long tomorrow, so I'll be from the afternoon to whenever at night. Also, instructional wall of text is awesome so I don't feel guilty making a long read. LoL
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Project: Shadow
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Egg Robo
I see you're registered with me now, Gamma. That's cool. Makes some games! XD Not to mention music and comics.

I reuploaded Metall Attack (new name) and my new game, Cut Man Duel. I feel like I've just about got the Mega Man boss micro games down now with this one. There's only a few things RobotMaster1A has that this one doesn't. Cut Man doesn't fall to the arena from above because I had to make more room in his AI for other actions and the only touch screen controls are jump, fire, and Super Arm. That's not that big a deal, though. Those are the only touch screen controls you would use, anyway. The others would be dummy buttons to throw you off like in RobotMaster1A where you couldn't use the weapon of the Robot Master you're fighting and the weapon of the Robot Master he's most effective on doesn't affect him. So now you only have controls that help you win, but that doesn't mean it's easy.

Cut Man will throw his Rolling Cutter off his head to attack you (after which it will be stuck in the wall behind you) at a random point during the micro game. He'll also jump at a random point during it, thus making their actions impossible to predict. The health bar filling up at the beginning is still there, and will be for every Robot Master battle micro game. Mega Man's jump works similar to Metall Attack, but pressing the fire button will cause him to stop jumping repeatedly so we don't have the endless hopping Mega Man. I tried something different with the Mega Buster this time. Each shot will travel at a different speed with the initial shot being the fastest and the third shot being the slowest. This doesn't exactly match the mechanics in the actual game, but is an easy fix allowing you to be able to shoot every time you press the fire button and helps other objects to have better AI. The Super Arm and boulder pretty much work the same as in RobotMaster1A. The music is also similar, but slightly remixed.

Two of the biggest improvements are the background which I drew to match the actual room where Cut Man is fought in the original Mega Man game (though it doesn't match perfectly, neither do my sprites) and that you have not only hit Cut Man with the boulder, but also a minimum of three Buster shots. The boulders impact will shake the screen and Cut Man will flinch when hit with it (not the Mega Buster) and the health bar will go down to about 2/5 or 1/3. After he's been hit with the boulder and three Buster shots, the health bar will go to zero and Cut Man will explode (which also causes the screen to flash). I couldn't manage to replicate the way Mega Man and Robot Masters explode in the games (this time, anyway), but it's a decent explosion anyway which looks pretty good in combination with the screen flash. As with the other games, if Mega Man receives damage he will flinch and the game will end in a loss. Finally, if Mega Man successfully defeats Cut Man without taking damage, he will to his trademark :mega: and the game is won.

I'm still not locking these (why would I when only people on my friend roster can use them, anyway), so y'all can feel free to import them into your Game MakerMatic and edit them to make different boss battles (maybe not even Mega Man battles) or just use the objects or whatever. RobotMaster1A ain't in my warehouse anymore, but Cut Man, Bomb Man, and my new Elec Man sprites are available in the objects of Metall Attack.

Anyway, I guess y'all just have to expect me to write a book every time I post in this thread because there's just so much to talk about. XD
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Super Bermuda
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RhinoBot
Downloaded your Cut Man game and I really like it. The new background fits the boss fight scene much better and the game itself is kind of challenging when trying to hit and dodge attacks. Kinda like a real Mega Man boss fight in a micro game form.

I've been trying some changes for my Pokemon catch game and I seem to have hit a bit of a snag. The original game had you tapping the Charizard which would have a pokeball thrown to catch it. Simply by tapping Charizard, you would win the game. I have changed it so now I have an "Attack" and a "Throw!" button at the bottom. Pressing Attack will launch a bubblebeam attack from your slowpoke, and also decrease the health bar of the charizard. Tapping the Throw button now throws the pokeball. My goal was to make it in order to win, you would need to tap the Attack button to decrease Char's health and then the Throw button to catch, in that order. However, I can't get that to be the win condition. Right now you can just tap the buttons in any order and you can win, which doesn't make any sense. You're not supposed to catch the pokemon and then attack. I'm sure there's a way to do it with some clever reprograming of other objects and their switches, I just need to really sit down with this and experiment. And I really need to work on the background. It's so boring looking.
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Egg Robo
Well, without seeing your AI I have a possible solution. Focus on the things coming in contact with Charizard. When BubbleBeam touches or overlaps Charizard, his health bar should change to another cell where he's missing some health and maybe turn on the health bar's switch. When the Pokeball comes in touches or overlaps Charizard he should be caught and the game won, but only if the health bar switch is on. If the Pokeball comes touches or overlaps Charizard when the health bar switch is off, he should escape from the Pokeball and the game end in a loss. Basically, you've got to add additional triggers and actions when necessary to each AI so that they do multiple things when all the right conditions are met. Switches are your friend as they're the only thing besides direct contact that can make one object make another object do something. Most, if not all, of the switches in the games I've made lately do something. Most of the AI has two or three triggers and perform three or four actions and several objects have no more room for additional AI, not to mention I've been pushing the limit where graphics are concerned too and had to make several revisions during the creation process for both AI and graphics. I feel I've been learning a lot from doing this, though.

And yeah, I have been trying to make my games pretty hard (mostly for the same reason you noted that Mega Man games are undeniably hard). Once I've finally made enough games to fill an entire collection I look forward to y'all downloading them and seeing how high you can score and likewise for your games. :) Speaking of which, how have y'all done as far as that goes for Mona and everybody else's games? I unlocked all the Diamond Software micro games a long time ago (same goes for Wario Man's games on WW DIY Showcase) and the last series of comics just today. I still have a good ways to go on the records, but I'm over halfway there. I've been downloading all the NinSoft games off Wi-Fi, too. I especially like Sakamoto's Metroid game, even though his Zero Suit Samus is ugly. LoL

Update to my Wi-Fi Warehouse Crates: Metall Attack now has the sprites for Elec Man, Bomb Man, Ice Man, and Fire Man hidden in it's graphics. All I have left to make now as far as the original six Robot Masters are concerned are Guts Man, Thunder Beam, Ice Slasher, Fire Storm, and the flame on Fire Man's torch head, all from scratch though. Cut Man Duel has also received a minor update. Looking at the AI of Wario's Job Game #4 "Crazy Car" and several of 9-Volt's games, I've figured out how the jumping AI works now. :mega:
Edited by Project: Shadow, Apr 25 2010, 06:16 AM.
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Super Bermuda
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RhinoBot
Hey that's a pretty good idea. I think doing that would actually work.

And I actually haven't been playing the main game at all. I played Mona's games the first day I got it, then I started with creating games and that's all I've been doing. I downloaded a few Ninsoft games and many of them are quite good. There was one called "1-up" that I liked. It was in the weekly games. It just seems so complicated for timing the jumps of Mario. You have to hop onto moving platforms, then hit an item box which produces the 1-up, then hit another item box as the 1-up passes over it so you can make it hop over a brick blocking its path. It was pretty crazy.

Edit: Put up an updated version of the Catch game. What I need to do now is change that horrible background and maybe work on the art for a few pieces. Other than that, I think the gameplay works fine. I set it so you will lose if you tap the throw button first. Also Charizard will fly away if you lose.
Edited by Super Bermuda, Apr 25 2010, 12:44 PM.
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CHAOSGAMMA
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Leon
I downloaded your games and tried them out a couple days ago. They're great! Awesome job guys! When I can I'll try out the new Cut man game and the improved Charizard catch. Haven't had time to make my own stuff yet, but I should finally have some time soon! :) (after presenting our project tomorrow night)
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Egg Robo
Thanks, I look forward to talking with ya. I downloaded your updated Catch game, Bermuda. It was already awesome due to the accurately detailed sprites and well chosen music, but it's majorly improved now. Using that eraser tool for Charizard's catch animation was genius and suits it perfectly. I've been working on Bomb Man Duel while straying off to some other micro game projects. I've got some cool ideas for a Metroid game (like one where you have to tap the right beam icon to defeat Fission Metroids) as well as Sparkster and Darkwing Duck. I successfully made one Darkwing Duck sprite that I'm pretty satisfied with along with his gas gun, so hopefully I can make some more animations and make some cool DW micro games. The practice I get from using these will soon be applied to making some cool Sonic micro games and some featuring my characters. ;)
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