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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 17 2007, 10:31 AM (172 Views) | |
| X3rb3rus | Apr 17 2007, 10:31 AM Post #1 |
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I AM THE GREAT AND POWERFUL BOB.-Mav
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BAN GUNS IN THE U.S.A dont fukkin tell me it wont solve anything, yes it frikken will. Look at the stats around the world, they speak for themselves. Death from guns in the US (if i recall correctly) upwards of 10k per year Death from guns in Australia 65. The difference? gun laws. That is all |
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| JoeMack | Apr 17 2007, 01:27 PM Post #2 |
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Master Debator
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X3r - Love you to death, bro...but you can take my guns from my cold, dead hand. People will get their hands on guns whether we like it or not. There are bad people in this world, who will do bad things to you, just because...and I intend to protect my family with every tool available to me. Gun crime may be rampant in the U.S., but there are factors at work other than simply the ownership of guns. Follow the money...criminals do. Wherever you find particularly good sources of income, and the ability to exploit it, you'll find bad people trying to exploit it. America is one of the richest countries in the world, and we have a history of corruption, and violence. As such, yes, there is violent crime. But don't take my ability to defend myself, and my family away because of that. Things like this will happen. The only way to defend against it is to prepare yourself mentally and physically to deal with any possible threat. People do this, or don't, as they choose. Pray for peace, but prepare for war. |
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| purp1ekush | Apr 17 2007, 03:09 PM Post #3 |
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Regimentally excellent
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it wont solve anything |
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| desi | Apr 17 2007, 06:05 PM Post #4 |
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veteran poster
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lmao purple anywayz i doubt prohibiting firearms will work to prevent crimes such as the Virginia Tech Massacre. Several reasons: largest difference between US and other countries is the population with huge culture differences. US has roughly 300 million people. At least 1000 different cultures. easily. and every little group isn't kool with sum other group. always been this way here, ever since the white guys took over native american land and brought in black slaves. trouble brews here like storms brew over an ocean. and ofcourse everyones worried abt their safety. America has the single largest immigration population in the world, with 197 out of every 200 people having originated (either born or having ancestors withing the last 10 generations, ~400 years, born) in a different country. Now u gotta look at y these people left their original country. safety will turn out to be in the top 5 reasons. and wat safer way then to own a gun? more population, the more problems. austalia has a population of 20 million. the US has 301 million. thus we would have a bigger amount of ppl getting killed by guns, since theres more of a chance. another reason would be because of human drive to desire the unattainable. if u believe in the bible, adam and eve were banned from the apple, but they basically broke the law and got it. same thing would happen if guns were banned overnight. ppl would see this as a new fad, and attain one illegally. and then they would go test out their new toy. crime rate jumps like crazy. i believe the gradual approach is better. here in new york, i learned the hard way that there is a 3 year prison sentence for people carrying a loaded gun without a lisence. now its not too hard to get one, but 3 years is harsh, especially in nyc jails. it deters many people, but lets face it, a really determined person would be able to get the gun and evade the police for a long time. this college guy just bought the gun two weeks ago, using a fake lisence. the police probably werent even notified he had a gun. a third reason banning guns is outrageous is because of the economic losses. i noe this is shallow. but lets face it. the gun industry would not support a bill to go into congress banning guns. after all, the US is the largest world provider of explosives and firearms. they make huge business out of this. why would they care if sum innocent kids got killed. its just another 33 names added to the 10k names in the last year alone. politics is obviously very big here in the US, and this is totally its own fault. thats on of my biggest arguments against the US being so great. feh its ruled by pig headed, goatbrained assholes that wanna stay in power. no offense to any1 who actually likes the administration ![]() i'll get back to u wen i think of more reasons. its a grim situation, but i dont think banning guns is gonna help the problem. infact it may escalate it instead. |
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| X3rb3rus | Apr 17 2007, 11:15 PM Post #5 |
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I AM THE GREAT AND POWERFUL BOB.-Mav
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20million in AUS and 300mill in US is a ratio 1:15 The deathrate of guns is 1:150 Obviously population isnt a factor We in Australia are not that different to u guyz in the U.S. We pretty much hav the same values and are just as multicultural as u guyz. Yeah there are conflicts between them but so what? They have that problem in every multicultural society. @Joemack - Who said defending ur families means u need 2 own a gun? U can defend ur family in other ways (1 way is to rally against gun usage i think that is the best way 2 defend ur family and others). Ppl keep saying i need a gun to protect myself from other ppl with guns, but if the "other" ppl dont hav guns in the first place u wouldnt need that gunI admit banning guns over night isnt a solution but a gradual phase out, i strongly beleev is. Of course if sum1 REALLY wanted one they could probably get their hands on one but the likelihood of the average person killing some1 would drastically decrease. Lemme give u an example. If u REALLY wanted to steal a ferrari u could probably find a way 2 steal it (not getting caught is a diff matter). BUT if the ferrari had its window open and its keys in the ignition any1 could jump in and steal it. Just like gun laws, if its banned only the really determined would get one and kill sum1, but bcos gun laws are so lax almost any1 can get 1 and kill sum1. @mo, ur comment on how crime would jump if gun laws were tightened, made me laugh so hard. Ur right that there would be ppl that would WANT it more if it were taken away, but if ur law enforcement is doing its job GETTING it wouldnt be easy. But in conclusion i think i reckon it may be impossible for the US to change. Their mindsets are already set in concrete and are unwilling to change. Not until they see a loved one being killed by a gun will they see the see the light (as shown by witnesses of the columbine incident). And even then, they think that "if i had my gun i could hav stopped it". Come to Australia, u will see the world is a safer place without guns. If it can work here it can work there. Its up to the people to think outside the closed box that they are refusing to look outside of. Im sorry if i offend any1 this is something i strongly feel about and u hav every right to disagree with me. I understand ur positions on the issue but things dont have to be that way |
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| purp1ekush | Apr 17 2007, 11:38 PM Post #6 |
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Regimentally excellent
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I think that alot of these murders take place in ghettos or the projects (government housing projects), or whatever you'd like to call them. In these places conditions are horrible and places I wouldnt want to go to, even for 5 minutes... These places are 99.9% non-white people, most with broken families. Public schools in the big cities are shit and thats a fact, everyone knows schools in the burbs are way nicer. Also these kids have little hope because of their socioeconomic status of a good future of going to college and having a career.. Alot of these kids dont have fathers around being a role model and the kids then turn to selling crack, basketball or musical talent as a way to get out. All Im saying is that there isnt alot of hope in these places where alot of this killing occurs. Maybe its these conditions and not soley our gunlaws eh x3r?? Gunlaws dont need to change in my opinion but these conditions do. Its our 2nd amendment to be able to have firearms so thats not going anywhere... Oh yea BET and the "hardcore rap" culture and the people who alot of these kids look up to are shit influences as well. |
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| X3rb3rus | Apr 18 2007, 02:58 AM Post #7 |
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I AM THE GREAT AND POWERFUL BOB.-Mav
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ic ur point, these are factors that may lead to murders and they do need 2 be fixed no doubt about that but as i said these kinds of places exist in Australia aswell. And i know a lot of people that idolise american rappers and so called extremist musicians (keep in mind american music is a huge influence on aussies) but despite this fact the numbers still astound me. |
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| JoeMack | Apr 18 2007, 08:42 AM Post #8 |
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Master Debator
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Purple - that was an excellent point about the socio-economic conditions in the ghetto. Now, see what parallels can be drawn between the ghetto, and third world countries. Anyone seen Blood Diamond? X3r - Yes, americans mindsets are somewhat different. Our right to own a gun is built into our constitution, and by defending my family does not entail standing with a picket in a line chanting. It means being physically and mentally prepared to stand against threats to our well being, and responding as necessary to ensure the survival of everyone I can. I'm pretty conservative on this issue, so perhaps we should agree to disagree. However, remember that the founding fathers of this country wrote this amendment specifically into the Bill of Rights. Think of it this way. The government/nobles of a country will think twice about treating the citizens badly if they know that the citizens can shoot them off of their horses, from a distance... Respectfully, JoeMack |
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| desi | Apr 18 2007, 07:45 PM Post #9 |
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veteran poster
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heyz good point steve. i live in a ghetto. my dads still around. i like rap music. i dress kinda darker. im not white. i own a gun. i'v been on the other side of bars in a jail a couple of times. the only thing broken abt my family is my dad and his sister had a huge fight, ending with him threatening to shoot her and her family if they didnt return sumthing valuable to him. my schools from grades kindergarten to 12 were failing schools, where above 50% of the students scored failing marks on the state tests. gun laws here matter for nothing. the police never come here. wen called they come two hours late, if at all. they just dont care. crime here breeds like crazy. many teens are involved in gangs. gangs function as an internal police, getting revenge for its members. of course theres a price to gangs. lets just say there are no commander changes, unless u or sum1 else takes him out of the picture permanently. its not that im against gun laws. i just don't see how they would be enforced in areas of high crime. And its these areas that make the numbers jump. i mean virginia tech was international news because it was not in the hood. wat abt the 10 other ppl that died in the slums of new york city from bullets last week? not even mentioned on cnn. if gun laws could be enforced, i'd b the first one signing up. if no1 had guns, it'd b alot easier to keep ur self and ur family safe joe. but if it cant be enforced, then theres no point in giving up ur best form of protection. australia sumhow mangaes to enforce it and mad props to u guys for that. but americans are much less coordinated lol. |
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| X3rb3rus | Apr 19 2007, 06:49 AM Post #10 |
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I AM THE GREAT AND POWERFUL BOB.-Mav
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u know wot mo? sumhow ur response just put everything in perspective for me and sumhow i can empathise from ur point of view. Maybe cos it sounded really calm, from experience and from the heart Ur totally correct, if it cant be enforced thers really no point. I hear about ur police and how they're biased towards ppl (it happens here aswell although its at a lower scale).And yeah no1 even hears about deaths in areas that it happens frequently. And yeah mah dad gets worked up aswell altho its more threats of phys violence rather than shooting but if gun culture was like in the states it might be different. |
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| JoeMack | Apr 19 2007, 07:05 AM Post #11 |
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Master Debator
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Wow...I got nothing on that. Well said, Mo. Interesting perspective, also. |
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| desi | Apr 19 2007, 05:30 PM Post #12 |
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veteran poster
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*bow* lol ty it was sincere. i'd luv to have gun laws, but here threats arent physical violence, theyr "if u dont listen, imma put a cap in yo ass" (well i brushed out shum of the curses and ! points in there. cap refers to bullet lol). and sumtimes the best idea is to fight fire with fire. *shrug* |
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| desi | Apr 20 2007, 12:41 AM Post #13 |
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veteran poster
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heh sorry for double posting, had to be due. heres a newspaper article talking abt gun control in america, including surveys dun after the virginia Tech shooting. surprising fact. or not. 80 Million US residents own personal guns. http://men.msn.com/articlepollgc.aspx?cp-d...732850>1=9311 When madmen go on killing sprees in America, they use guns. Inevitably, in the aftermath, the arguments about gun control begin. But a poll conducted in the days after the Virginia Tech massacre found that the majority of Americans don't fully align themselves with either the pro- or anti-gun arguments. The MSN-Zogby poll found that 59 percent of Americans do not believe stricter gun control policies would have prevented Cho Seung-Hui from killing 32 people and then himself in the worst mass murder in America's history. The poll found that only 36 percent of those polled believe stronger gun control could have prevented the shootings. However, arming more Americans with guns is not the answer either, most people say. Slightly more than half of those polled—54 percent—say that more guns would not stop killing sprees. Thirty-eight percent believe a better-armed populace could help prevent such mayhem. (The interactive survey of 1,336 adults nationwide was conducted April 17-18, 2007, and carries a margin of error of +/- 2.7 percentage points.) Despite the noisy debate that is likely to occur in the coming weeks and months about gun rights, only a minority of Americans believes the massacre in Virginia will lead to more gun control. Nearly half—45 percent—do not think the deaths will result in stricter gun laws, and another 40 percent are unsure whether changes would occur. The most vocal and powerful opponent of gun restrictions, the National Rifle Association, so far has been quiet on the issue, offering only a brief statement on its Web site of condolence to those who lost loved ones on the Blacksburg, Va., campus. But others groups, from both sides of the gun control issue, are speaking out: "We're all in a state of shock and very sad at what happened," says Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. "Now is not the time to be raising political questions, but soon our country will have to ask why do we make it so easy for dangerous people to get access to these high firepower weapons. … What we're doing now certainly is not working. We have very weak gun laws, and 32 people plus the gunman were killed in this shooting. But 30 people are killed in gun homicides every day." Meanwhile, a gun advocacy group, the Second Amendment Foundation, issued this statement: "80 million law-abiding gun owners in this country did not go to Virginia Tech or some other college campus yesterday to unleash carnage. They have harmed no one, and their civil rights should not be erased in response." According to 2004 statistics, the most recent available, of all the deaths in the U.S. more than 11,500 were from gun-related homicides, and 16,750 people committed suicide by firearm. There's no official count of the number of guns in America, but one survey estimates that the number is 192 million. Delving Into the Numbers The MSN-Zogby poll found that younger adults are slightly more likely than older adults to see stricter gun policies as a means of prevention—among those 18 to 29, 39 percent say more stringent gun control could avert tragic shootings, compared to 26 percent of those age 65 and older. Still, more than half (53 percent) of the younger adults say increased gun control won't help, an opinion that becomes increasingly popular as adults get older. Nearly three in four (72 percent) of those age 65 and older didn't think tighter gun control policies will prevent shootings. Those who live in large cities are more closely divided on the issue than those who live in less populated areas—49 percent in large cities believe stricter gun control won't help, but nearly as many (47 percent) believe it could prevent shootings. On the question of arming more Americans, political affiliation led to a stark contrast in opinions. Eighty-nine percent of Democrats do not think more guns would avert tragedies like at Virginia Tech, while only 24 percent of Republicans share that view. Independents are evenly split on that issue. Men are more likely than women to believe that more armed Americans is a viable deterrent. The divide between urban and rural America is large: 62 percent of city dwellers say that arming more Americans would not help prevent such tragedies, while nearly half of rural Americans, 49 percent, believe it would. More men than women believe that gun control laws will not change in the aftermath of Monday's murders. Political positions did not make much of a difference on this point: 47 percent of Democrats and 46 percent of Republicans say they do not believe the laws will change. Ladd Everitt, director of communications for the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, a gun-control advocacy group, wonders when the country's political leaders will seriously discuss gun control. "Looking back on the Amish school shooting, we really hoped there would be a serious debate about gun policy in this country at that point, the proliferation of guns," Everitt says. "President Bush held a conference on school violence and never mentioned the word 'gun.' A lot of the reaction we're hearing is, ‘When are we going to talk about this?' " Charles Carl Roberts IV killed five girls before killing himself in an Amish schoolhouse in Nickel Mines, Pa., last October. The gun lobbying groups have been very successful in "stymieing debate," says Everitt. "If you support any moderate gun control policy you're an enemy of freedom. That just dumbs down what really needs to be a serious and thoughtful debate." |
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| VaticanInFlames | Apr 21 2007, 08:07 AM Post #14 |
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Soldier of the Order
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LOL purp1eI hoenstly dont think it would solve anything either, people are gonna do it whether its legal or not, maybe cut down a fair bit but not as long as Aussie.. Too many fucked up areas of america in comparisson to Aus, plus in most cases police are shit scared of the "gangs" so barely gonna do anything anyway
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| OskDarrek | Apr 21 2007, 03:16 PM Post #15 |
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pink is the new black!!!!
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abt belgium ( yes, it still excists )10 mil ppl kills by gun? dunno , but a few months ago 20 ppl were killed by 1 man , in 5 minutes and more accidents still happen |
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| X3rb3rus | Apr 22 2007, 04:14 AM Post #16 |
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I AM THE GREAT AND POWERFUL BOB.-Mav
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let me put up a point for brainstorming. If we put up your basic principle of "defending oneself through ownership of weapons" on to a larger scale, why then does america try to stop countries from owning weapons of mass destruction? |
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| OskDarrek | Apr 22 2007, 05:22 AM Post #17 |
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pink is the new black!!!!
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i dunno but they have mass destruc. weaps. rite? btw, i've got my knife always with my anywhere, anytime y? dunno , but i use it for everything |
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3:46 AM Jul 11
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edge created by tiptopolive of ifsz







Thanks for the fun while it lasted


Ur totally correct, if it cant be enforced thers really no point. I hear about ur police and how they're biased towards ppl (it happens here aswell although its at a lower scale).
LOL purp1e




3:46 AM Jul 11