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| Topic Started: Feb 4 2009, 11:13 AM (220 Views) | |
| Bobski | Feb 4 2009, 11:13 AM Post #1 |
Rachel
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Hi. We homed our Patterdale from a Shelter 3 weeks ago. He is about 8 months old and complete. We have had 3 weeks of sleepless nights and are at demented and at our wits end as we really don't want to take him back to the shelter. I just need some advice really on what to do (we were meant to be starting obedience classes on Monday night but it was cancelled because of the snow). He is very destructive and had chewed lots of things including, chewed the plug off the iron, my boyfriends treasured vinyl, Placemats, coasters, a gillet, etc etc. He barks at 4am for no reason and pulls on the lead and tries to go for other dogs when out walking. He gets 2 long walks a day, has loads of toys and chews including a Kong. We play with him a lot. Does anyone have any advice - I really don't know where to start. Thanks R |
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| Lu20 | Feb 4 2009, 11:20 AM Post #2 |
Total Gas Bag!
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I am sorry I don't have any suggestions but others here will have - be patient! One thing I will say is that most Terriers I know have extremely high energy levels so need stimulation - in whatever form that may take. I would guess his behaviour is a combination of many things. I am afraid perserverence with a terrier is a word that comes very high up in our dictionaries. Don't give up on him :no: I can imagine your frustrations, something will come up that will hit the spot :ok: |
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| zandd | Feb 4 2009, 01:22 PM Post #3 |
Moderator
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Welcome bobski and so sorry you start with your new dog hasn't been more peaceful.Patterdales are very high maintenance Terriers.Do you know anything at all about his background? And what did the shelter tell you about him? One thing I wonder is are you playing wth him too much and overstimulating him indoors.Do you have a crate,I've only used one once for a foster dog and they are an absolute godsend for both dog and owner.You have lots of different problems here but I'm hoping other owners will have experienced some (if not most ;) ) of these and be able to help. So first of all any history to begin with influence answers.Where does he sleep at night and what does appears to be his desired bribe - treats,squeaky toy,cuddly toy etc as bribery works very very well once it's established what works. |
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| piwoodhouse | Feb 4 2009, 03:33 PM Post #4 |
Total Gas Bag!
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Depending on how long he was in the shelter, he may be barking because if you think about it, that's what he would have heard most. He may be feeling insecure when the house is quiet and 'calling' to see if another dog answers. Equally, he may have heard something that you won't have, like a fox crossing your garden. First port of call is the rescue he came from for information and any advice they can offer. Next, I'd buy a crate and make it a treat for him to go inside it - put his favourite things in there and give him something nice he can chew on . What you're aiming for here is for him to be out in the crate without any conflict, otherwise the crate will have negative connotations and he might become more restless, distressed or vocal when he's in there. Terriers are a lot cleverer that you might believe and if he gets the idea that you're using the crate to make YOUR life easier rather than for his pleasure, he'll respond accordingly. You say you give him lots of chews and kongs - might be worth trying to find a different kind of toy he finds exciting and keeping it for "best". This doesn't mean not letting him have it, but rather using it to get his full attention as opposed to letting him have 100% free access to his toys. If you allow this then he's never getting a surprise. In a sense it's a bit like over indulging a child - when really, knowing you've had to work to get something makes the reward that much better. Trying to go for other dogs when on the lead is perfectly understandable. Your dog has no idea if a dog approaching him if friendly or vicious. So his basic survival depends on him making himself look as threatening as possible, mainly because on a lead he is trapped. Once you get recall sussed and can allow him to go off lead, you'll see a big difference. When two people get one dog, it helps if you're of one mind when it comes to discipline. Decide now if he's allowed on the sofa or in such and such a room and make sure the dog knows exactly where he stands. Try and be as committed as possible to prevent giving him mixed messages. Can I ask what the routine is for you and your boyfriend? Do you both work and if so how long is your terrier on his own? If you work where do you put your dog and what is the reaction from him when you come home? Where does the dog sleep? Are any rooms 'out of bounds' to him? What are you feeding him and is this the same as he was eating at the shelter? Are there any times in the day when he is calm? Does he have any separation anxiety? |
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| Laura | Feb 4 2009, 04:48 PM Post #5 |
One of the regulars
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I'd take all the advice above, it's all great. I just wanted to add that you should remember he is only 8 months old - he's a baby! Everything is new and strange and he want's to learn about everything, dogs learn a lot about objects by chewing them. If you don't want things to be chewed, you will have to be careful where you leave things untill he understands what is allowed - he doesn't know the difference. Depending on his background, he might be pulling because he hasn't been trained how to walk on a lead. Also remember he's only known you for 3 weeks, when you have built a bond with him training will be easier and more enjoyable for both of you. Just make the most of him and admire his terrierness! They are only puppies once. |
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| Bobski | Feb 4 2009, 05:42 PM Post #6 |
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Rachel
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Hi all, Thank so much for your replies - you've already started to put my mind at rest! Just to give you some background on Bob: me and my fella had been discussing for a while about getting a dog (I previously have had 2 ex-racing greyhounds), and we decided that we would like a terrier of some sort, so we went to the local shelter to see if any of dogs took our fancy or if we took their fancy! And there was Bob the Patterdale. We were told he was 8 months old, and all they said was that he had all his jabs and had been re-homed from the shelter once, but then brought back after a week "Because he kept trying to get away". That's it really. So I suppose we took a gamble, we took Bob round the grass area at the shelter and spent at least 2 hours with him, he kept being sick as he was pulling on the lead and choking himself, but we couldn't resist and took him home. We quickly noticed that pulling on the lead and making himself sick was making him poorly, so we bought a harness and he was delight on it for the first week. He has 2 leads: one short chain one, and one extendable one. I wanted to use the short one at all times until he was used to it, but the other half has been using the extendable one sometimes, which I think gives him too much slack, making him too confident, hence the pulling. Bob's bed is in the kitchen - it's a large cushion type dog bed and it's a den type space in the corner under the unit. To be honest we have been rather soft at first and let him in the bedroom, where he has been on the bed for quite a few nights, so he must be used to that. Last night we closed the bedroom door so he had the run of the house but not our room, and that is when he was destructive and barked, obviously rebelling at our change of mind! One thing I have thought of is to put his bed in our room and gradually, night by night, inch by inch move it out to downstairs. I think also we have made the mistake of allowing all his toys to be accessable at all times, he likes best his chewy bone and squeaky toys. We both work full time, but I come home at lunchtimes, so he is on his own 4 hours max occasionally he will be able to go to work with my boyfriend. We spend all evenings and weekends with him. When I come back at lunchtimes I try to be calm and not fuss him too much, he is usually calm too but sometimes is a jumping bean! We feed him on complete dried food - same as shelter, and he is a good eater, isn't greedy but just eats when he needs to. I think he barks if he hears the slightest noise, there are dogs all around us (all terriers) and I think he may just be smelling them - it always seems to be 4am though! We have managed to train him to sit and give a paw for a treat, so he is receptable for certain things. A lot of friends recommended a crate, I can see what they mean now! I think we had just decided to see how he got on as we wanted to get to know Bob first. I felt really sad this morning, not knowing which way to turn, but I can see a flicker of light at the end of the tunnel now! Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks |
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| Tafia | Feb 4 2009, 06:30 PM Post #7 |
Total Gas Bag!
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I just wanted to say that at 8 months he could very well be cutting his back teeth and that hurts badly. His mouth would be incredibly sensitive and looking for relief poor mite. Best teething tool I've ever come across is a wet flannel knotted and put in the freezer, once solid give it to him so he can have a good chomp down, make up a couple and keep them coming. Chewing also releases endorphines helping him reducing his stress levels, an anxious dog can quickly become addicted to their self medication. Have a look at the TTouch thread, he sounds as though he could seriously do with some help chilling out and just calming down and TTouch can certainly do that and is often recommended for rescue dogs. There are many different ways of teaching your dog not to pull on a lead and you're spot on, flexi leads aren't one of them! I've no experience of haltis etc, I always put a nice light but strong leather collar and use a nice, light but strong leather lead. There's a totally different feeling of control. Practice in the house, in the garden, walking to the corner and back, he pulls you stop and walk in the opposite direction - choose somewhere quiet and non exciting and put the flexi in the draw and forget about it for the time being. You will not be the first person that a terrier has bought to tears, one of mine literally had me banging my head against the wall! Today she's 8 years old and I can't imagine life without her. Life is never boring, she makes me laugh more than any other dog ever has and she's the best friend anyone could ever have so don't give up hope! Edited by Tafia, Feb 4 2009, 06:42 PM.
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| Marean | Feb 4 2009, 06:36 PM Post #8 |
Total Gas Bag!
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Thanks for filling us in with more details and good on you for seeking advice and not just returning him :flower: I agree that getting a crate would be a good start. Dogs tend to feel more secure in small areas rather than having the run of the house. He will probably resist initially if he's not been used to one. This should cut down on the destruction. Maybe having it in your room at night with his bed inside and a toy he's familair with would help and as you said gradually move him out. Your training classes will be able to advise on the lead walking, sounds like he's not been trained yet to walk on lead. Personally I wouldn't use the extendable lead, I have found them a real nuisance and infact Harvey snapped the two I had (from pulling). As already mentioned Patterdales are VERY determined terriers and will need to know that you and your partner are in charge so being consistant is vital. Restricting his toy times on your terms, so that he has a game and then you remove his toys out of his reach so that again it is you calling the shots. As for his barking at the slightest noise this could be due to his new surroundings. I remember when we first moved here Harvey was a pain barking at what we thought was nothing but it soon stopped and I'm sure it was because it was all unfamiliar to him. Its all a very slow process but I'm sure you'll make it through. Just a thought might be worth you reading Cesar Millans book (review in books section here)or catching his Dog Whisperer programs that are on TV. Good luck and keep us posted. |
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| Wells07 | Feb 4 2009, 06:56 PM Post #9 |
One of the regulars
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I am doing TTouch with my border and he is responding so well to it. It may be worth getting some further literature on it or attending a Ttouch course which I have found so beneficial. Firstly, your dog is still possibly adjusting to his surroundings and from the sound of it, sounds quite a stressed little chap (not your doing, just perhaps elements of his past are coming into play). Who knows what his history might have been, but you sound as if you really care for your dog and want to make things nice for him. I think allowing him on your bed for quite a few nights and then shutting him in kitchen may have upset him a little. I don't think he was rebelling not being allowed entry, he was probably just confused... but you have the right idea, perhaps put his crate in your room and gradually move it towards the door. The destructive behaviour sounds like a dog who is anxious and I would suggest getting some Kong Toys (terrier proof!) which can be filled with tasty treats. This will keep him stimulated and will relieve his boredom when you are not there. Training classes would also be great, brilliant that you've enrolled for some as you will find these great and you'll enjoy learning new things together. He'll start bonding with you more too. Good luck to you both :ok: , it sounds like you both have a great future ahead of you, you are doing all the right things so try not to despair too much, it just takes time but you will get there in the end. Would love to see some pictures! :flower: :flower: Edited by Wells07, Feb 4 2009, 06:59 PM.
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| zandd | Feb 4 2009, 06:58 PM Post #10 |
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Moderator
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Thanks for the extra info,it really helps. First thing get rid of the extending lead,it's making pulling much worse.I'd also consider changing the chain lead for a lighter nylon one,chain could be quite heavy for a young pup. Presume you're aware of the stop/start method to train out of pulling.It's incredibly tedious and you feel a right prat walking 2 steps and stopping if the dog pulls but it does work IF you are prepared to be 100% consistent with it - so no rushed round the block walks before an appointment will be possible. Sleeping in your room is a personal choice if,you're happy for him to be there the rest of his life then fine,let him move in there.However if you don't want this now is the time to decide where he can sleep but I wouldn't allow a teething pup run of the house,too dangerous for him - and your home. Think what's coming through already from the others is the fact that Terriers are different dogs :P They will take advantage of any weaknesses shown them,and Patterdales are right up the top when it comes to that.You and your partner must be in agreement re training etc,it's vital that he's isn't allowed to get away with behaviour when with one and not the other. The frozen flannels are a great ease for teething so go for those although watch he doesn't chew them when thawed. Take away some of his toys and make playtimes fun but not too boisterous,I tend to make my walks very energetic for my Duncan,lots of throwing of balls - chukkit is a godsend,then games indoors are quieter - hide the treat or just leave him playing on his own.It's good to let your pup amuse himself,sometimes working owners think they need to spend every minute indoors playing with their dogs as compensation for leaving them - not necessary. He sounds a great little character who will probably test you to the limit but you've alrady made a big step in realising his behaviour is different from what you've experienced before and asked for help so I'm sure you'll end up with a superb companion in the future. Oh and please post in introductions section as well and lots ofphotos are obligatory :D |
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| piwoodhouse | Feb 4 2009, 07:17 PM Post #11 |
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Total Gas Bag!
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Don't know what the others think about this, but I feel terriers are dogs who really benefit when they know boundaries. This is only a suggestion - and I'm quite prepared to be shot down in flames! - but giving him the run of the house, allowing his toys to be accessible whenever he wants and allowing free feeding means he's learning he can do anything he wants whenever he wants to. Like dealing with small children, it's sometimes easier to be a bit stricter because it's always easier to let the reins slacken than it is to tighten them later. I don't want you to get weighed down here because once you go to training classes it will all start to make sense, but it might help to reinforce his position in the family, ie he comes third! You and your boyfriend should see to each other before turning to your dog, so when the b/f comes home he must greet you, take off his coat, sit down in a chair etc before he acknowledges the dog. Try and remember to go through a door first, always making the dog follw you. These things sound trivial but you're giving the dog the idea that YOU are in control of HIM. So you should dole out his toys, you choose when to give him attention etc. I know feeding is a hugely personal issue but rather than letting him help himself, if he learns that you are his source of food, I think he'll start to be more responsive. But don't beat yourself up. You've done a wonderful thing in adopting him and with consistent training and a good sense of humour, not to mention your new friends at Terrier Talk, everything will fall into place I am sure. |
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| Linda & Fred | Feb 4 2009, 07:47 PM Post #12 |
Chatterbox
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Congratulations on your new pup! It must be a shock after two greyhounds - I've got an ex-racing Greyhound and a Patterdale x JRT and they are very different. My Fred pulled on the lead really badly when I got him at 11 months. It took some time and training, but he does know walk without pulling most of the time. I used a halti harness to use in between training sessions so he didn't choke himself. It does strike me he may be getting too much stimulation. It's true they do not thrive well on boredom, but my Fred used to be very badly behaved after walks, so I had to cut them down quite a lot, and if you are playing with him a lot as well, I'm wondering when does he get a chance for his adrenalin levels to normalise? If they stay high too long (and I'm not sure of the science, but was told this by a realiable source so forgive me if I say it wrong) then it can become another hormone which stays in the system for a lot longer. Make sure that he gets time to rest - you may need to 'force' the issue with a crate, as others have mentioned. Fred still, even at 3 years old, gets crated at certain times to make sure he lies down and gets some sleep. Please, please, please, make sure your training club is a good one and only use kind methods, and the trainers have an understanding of behaviour as well as training. If you can find a class that will let you use a clicker, ask them to teach you how to use it. Good luck! You may think I'm mad, but I'm envious of you. PS Please post photos? |
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| zandd | Feb 4 2009, 08:31 PM Post #13 |
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Moderator
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piwoodhouse what a very sensible post :D Agree 100% with you re both Terriers and children,both need to know their boundaries,both will always push to test those boundaries as well but well behaved youngsters human and canine are an absolute joy to have around. |
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| Sky | Feb 4 2009, 08:45 PM Post #14 |
Chatterbox
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Just have to say :welcome: to TT and what wonderful advice has been given so far :yay: :yay: Good luck to you both, well done for taking on a "rescue" and hang on in there I am sure that things will turn out right in the end :ok: |
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| Wells07 | Feb 4 2009, 10:54 PM Post #15 |
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One of the regulars
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Yes, good luck, let us know how you get on with him, its always great to hear updates on how people are getting on. :ok: |
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12:13 PM Nov 27
