Problem with bangs and Maggie!

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Problem with bangs and Maggie!
Topic Started: Mar 13 2009, 08:13 PM (82 Views)
Sky	Mar 13 2009, 08:13 PM Post #1
Chatterbox Posts: 1,513 Group: Full Members Member #136 Joined: November 23, 2005	Maggie has always been a problem with fireworks, guns etc but one of the walks I do regularly is really becoming a problem. I walk with a friend once a week near where she lives. It is a lovely walk and up until recently Maggie has loved it. However, there are now lots of bird scarers (lound bangs) going off in the farm fields around this walk and poor Maggie has got progressively worse with this over the last few weeks. I now have to keep her on a flexi lead to stop her running away and hiding and she spends the whole walk trying to escape into any ditches or holes available. It is so distressing seeing her so frightened and I have now decided that I will actually have to leave her at home when I do this walk. Pete is no problem. My friend and her dogs cannot travel to another walk so if I am to walk with this friend and her dogs which I personally really enjoy then the only alternative is to leave poor Maggie at home and walk her somewhere else later in the day :( I know that when the time comes and I have to leave her at home and take Pete then I will feel awful but I really can't put her through this any more. Am I doing the right thing and does anyone else have this problem?



piwoodhouse	Mar 13 2009, 08:25 PM Post #2
Total Gas Bag! Posts: 3,970 Group: Full Members Member #282 Joined: August 18, 2006	Jenny have you tried those desensitisation tapes? Obviously they won't work overnight but realistically, nothing will. I'm no psychologist but I'm guessing if you want her to go on these walks, she needs to be re-educated - and to associate the noises with something really good. Which I guess means keeping her on the flexi and every time the guns go off, she gets rewarded with something she sees as really high value. I'd also be inclined to scoop her up to reward otherwise she might et the idea she is getting a treat for panicking and attempting to run for it. That's my rather simplistic take on it at any rate. I'm sure someone with a more reasoned mind will be along shortly. Horrid problem and although on the one hand it can be remedied easily by, as you say, leaving her behind, I can well understand why you want her with you enjoying the experience.



Sky	Mar 13 2009, 08:35 PM Post #3
Chatterbox Posts: 1,513 Group: Full Members Member #136 Joined: November 23, 2005	Pam, thanks for your reply. I dd get the "Firework CD" a few years ago from The Company of Animals but as soon a I put it on poor Maggie went Hyper and I didn't feel that I had the experience to continue with it for fear of making her worse :( My old Lab had exactly the same problem but at that time the "bird scarers hadn't become popular so we never had the "out on a walk problem" just the yearly November thing!! I used to think that these sort of problems would pass on from dog to dog but luckily Pete does not seem to be at all affected by Maggie's fear which I guess is one good thing.



piwoodhouse	Mar 13 2009, 09:00 PM Post #4
Total Gas Bag! Posts: 3,970 Group: Full Members Member #282 Joined: August 18, 2006	Just had a look at a couple of websites offering advice and one was quite interesting in that it isn't a question of overcoming her fear, you need to overcome your perception of her response to gunfire. If this was Widget going berserk at the end of a flexi, I'd instinctively grab him, hold him tight and talk soothingly to calm him down. Yet according to this website, I would be causing more damage, reinforcing his fear as if he was thinking "Blimey I was right to be scared judging by Mum's reaction". What would be better is for the human to respond to noise as if it's a fun, good thing. You hear noise and you party basically! Maggie comes to learn that noise makes everyone feel good. I can see what they are getting at in a way.Years ago I did one of those anti-phobia courses at London Zoo as I was petrified of spiders. When prompted to say exactly how they made me feel I could have gone on all day. Most of the people on that course spoke of rising hysteria, nausea, mad panic, inability to breathe in some cases! The course leader told us our responses were 100% rational.....................IF WE WERE TALKING ABOUT A MURDERER! More often than not, phobias are started and fed by reactions of people close to us. Clearly watching my mother climbing on a chair and screaming for my dad when a house spider scuttled across her carpet meant I learned they were things to fear. Why? No British spider can kill or even hurt me. It makes no rational sense at all. Had my mother cooed over it and let it run over her hands, there would have bene an entirely different outcome for me. Meant to ask: how old is Maggie now and is this a recent phenomenon? Does she panic at other sights or sounds? Edited by piwoodhouse, Mar 13 2009, 09:02 PM.



zandd	Mar 13 2009, 09:25 PM Post #5
Moderator Posts: 22,620 Group: Moderators Member #48 Joined: February 5, 2005	I have problem with Duncan and fireworks,thankfully he doesn't run away but pulls like a steam train to get home.Worst with him is he won't pee if one goes off.I think with Maggie as this particular walk is distressing her and she's OK being left behind I'd probably do so and take her out later.She's obviously hating it and her reactions are making you unhappy.



Tafia	Mar 13 2009, 09:31 PM Post #6
Total Gas Bag! Posts: 5,816 Group: Full Members Member #134 Joined: November 17, 2005	On part of one of our walks we have to cross over a narrow passenger bridge which is attached to the railway. The first couple of times we used the bridge it was fine but the time came when we where in the middle, with two trains crossing right next to us and the dogs hated it. The next couple of times they refused to even approach the bridge willingly. So I now put them back on their normal leather lead, kept it nicely slack and just carried on across like normal. Samething with the trains passing us, keep the leather lead nice and loose and just keep on walking. Wednesday Boo who was the worse of the two, just carried on walking with a train flying 10 feet away , whilst Davey stopped to have a look round before he continued. You don't have the same sort of communication with a flexi as you do with a nice leather lead. I struggle to give any guidance with them, actually I struggle to control with them, but I know I'd not be able to get them to cross that bridge with any semblence of acceptance. It might be worth trying with a normal lead and see how you got on?



Red Rascal	Mar 14 2009, 01:14 AM Post #7
Chatterbox Posts: 860 Group: Full Members Member #646 Joined: April 15, 2008	Sky sorry to hear Maggie is getting anxious on her walk, would maybe giving her something like Rescue Remedy help? Or maybe wearing a DAP collar. I was recently at a T-touch demo and they recommended the T-touch wraps or Doggy T-shirts to help with anxiety. Recently when getting Rascal a coat saw that Equa Fleece were selling them for exactly this. When Rascal was getting T-touched Sarah did say that his padded harness could be acting a bit like a wrap so that might be another idea with a double ended lead, attaching to the harness and collar, it would give you maximum control, which might be comforting for her. :flower:



Tafia	Mar 14 2009, 01:26 AM Post #8
Total Gas Bag! Posts: 5,816 Group: Full Members Member #134 Joined: November 17, 2005	Red Rascal Mar 14 2009, 01:14 AM Sky sorry to hear Maggie is getting anxious on her walk, would maybe giving her something like Rescue Remedy help? Or maybe wearing a DAP collar. I was recently at a T-touch demo and they recommended the T-touch wraps or Doggy T-shirts to help with anxiety. Recently when getting Rascal a coat saw that Equa Fleece were selling them for exactly this. When Rascal was getting T-touched Sarah did say that his padded harness could be acting a bit like a wrap so that might be another idea with a double ended lead, attaching to the harness and collar, it would give you maximum control, which might be comforting for her. :flower: Great call.



Sky	Mar 14 2009, 07:57 AM Post #9
Chatterbox Posts: 1,513 Group: Full Members Member #136 Joined: November 23, 2005	piwoodhouse Mar 13 2009, 09:00 PM Meant to ask: how old is Maggie now and is this a recent phenomenon? Does she panic at other sights or sounds? Pam, she is 7 in July. She first started her problem with fireworks when Millie our lab was alive. Millie was dreadful with bangs and I was of the opion that it rubbed off on Maggie which is why I am so pleased that Pete hasn't inherited the same problem. We had one awful experience with her about 2 years ago when just after Millie had died I was walking Maggie on her own, she heard a gun shot and just went. It took a search party and six hours later before she was found hiding in a wood having crossed a road :yikes: Ever since then I have made sure that I watch her for signs during walks and we always catch her if there are any bangs going off. It does only seem to be bangs i.e. anything which sounds like a firework even if it is on the TV! On the whole our walks are ok it is just this particular one which has progressively been getting worse and worse. Great replies from everyone thanks so much. I totally agree about the flexi lead, it does seem to make things harder to control, will go back to her lead and harness again.



Linda & Fred	Mar 14 2009, 09:39 AM Post #10
Chatterbox Posts: 703 Group: Full Members Member #571 Joined: November 28, 2007	My dad's dog Megan is like this around bird scarers and clapping! She tries to run back to the car if we are out and about, and has run off on numerous occasions - my parents searched for her for two hours once, only to find her waiting at the car! With the clapping it has got better simply because usually it's unexpected and she's on a lead and she's simply got used to it, although she will still try to hide she's much better. With the bird scarers I was out with her one time and she happened to be off lead when a bang when off. I always have treats and I managed to get her to come back to me although she wouldn't eat the treat, and I tried to 'condition' her that the bang meant 'go to aunty good things happen' and she was much better, still scared but she didn't run off. I wonder if you could get someone else to walk her? I am sure this only worked because she had no prior associations with 'scary bang + being outside + being with aunty' while she had loads of being with her owners. Just that one thing different can often make a big difference. Either ask your friend to hold her lead and you ignore her, or get someone else to take her to that area without you to see if there is any difference?



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