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| Agression with entire males | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 17 2009, 10:45 AM (94 Views) | |
| lizzog | Jun 17 2009, 10:45 AM Post #1 |
Newbie
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Advice needed again please! I've got a two year old male rescue border/lakeland terrier cross called Pepe. We've had him about eight months now and feel relatively confident letting him off the lead at last after months of disappearing acts! The problem I've got now is that he's still agressive towards certain dogs both on and off the lead - he's far worse on the lead. I've now discovered that there seems to be a connection with the dogs he's agressive towards, and that is that they have usually not been castrated. Their owners have obviously had similar problems with other dogs being agressive because their dogs are more often than not on the lead - which makes Pepe even worse cause he can't get to them! At the moment I call him in to me with variable results (!) and put him on the lead and walk the other way - any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated! |
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| Tafia | Jun 17 2009, 12:17 PM Post #2 |
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Total Gas Bag!
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Is Pepe neutured? And if so when was he done? Basically it's a male ego type thing, dogs can smell testosterone from a good distance and some just go into what I call Saturday night mode. Normally the reasons obvious - they just want to stamp their right to any fruity girls in the vacinity - it's primevil so can be difficult to deal with. The more training you do on a daily basis the better; focus training, recall, all of it to the good, but you especially need to practise calming him down when he's stressing. Owners with entire males on a lead do so because their dog has a healthy ego so IMO recall, lead and casual avoidence seems the most sensible course of action. Those dogs aren't generally the one's from whom Pepe is going to learn positive reinforcement from anyway! Davey's an entire 6 year old male, was excellent around all dogs up until 2.5 years old culcumating in him feeling the need to exert his masculinity with big black entire male dogs - his autopilot reaction is to charge over, spar and unless the other dog immediate submits (pretty difficult for a dog 5 times Davey's size sometimes) - fight. My job is to block him going into autopilot. Do you take him to a training class, have a look into the one's locally and try and find one that uses positive reinforcement. |
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| lizzog | Jun 17 2009, 02:44 PM Post #3 |
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Newbie
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Yes Pepe was neutered by the rescue before we got him, but like you say I'm sure he can smell their testosterone!! We tried training classes, but he used to get over-excited and ended up just barking at everything. The thing that I have been doing is going out with a local dog walker and her dogs. He gets on with all of them apart from one - a black male entire collie.... I think that avoidance is probably my only solution. At least his recall is getting better! |
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| Linda & Fred | Jun 17 2009, 03:46 PM Post #4 |
Chatterbox
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Have you contacted the rescue to see if they have any advice? Some may have a free telephone consultations with behaviourists which aren't ideal but a good place to start. I'd agree to find a good class, with someone not only experienced with terriers, but with someone experienced at SUCCESSFULLY training terriers. My terrier was taught by terrier owners who tried to inflict the 'one size fits all' method on Fred that hadn't worked with their own dogs! I believe it's Rescue Remedies who say you can't train the terrier out of the terrier. Walking with a dog walker, I like that idea! Most dogs used to being walked in groups get lots of practise defusing situations, only problem is, do the owners appreciate their dogs being used to practice on? Not that I am saying you are doing this, but it is something to consider. |
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| Tafia | Jun 17 2009, 04:06 PM Post #5 |
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Total Gas Bag!
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Just come back from a walk and thought about male on male aggression a bit more. A really rock solid "leave it" is a fantastic thing to have and in some ways one of the easiest things to teach as well as long as you practise your timing and make a fun & rewarding game. Not allowing Pepe in a situation were he's going to fail is for the best - though don't do an all out, right angle turn avoidence; just a simple scoop around keeping a nice loose lead. Another question; what lead are you using? If it's a flexi bin it today. No use at all in these sort of situations. You need a nice, light but strong leather one, not too long. Much easier to keep loose but stay in control of. Most terrier owners understand about over-excitment but you do need to learn how to channel it positively. Linda was a fair amount of experience of that with an adult dog and she might be able to share with you and maybe try and find a smaller, quieter class where he's not going to become quiet so over stimulated. Hopefully with a trainer who recognises that this isn't necessarily a dog with a bad temperament, just a dog whose grown up as a sexualised male and needs to learn how to temper his impulses. Edited by Tafia, Jun 17 2009, 04:08 PM.
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| lizzog | Jun 17 2009, 07:25 PM Post #6 |
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Newbie
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I have tried saying a firm "leave it" when he is approaching a dog that I know he dosn't like, and always praise him with a treat when he hasn't barked or lunged - in fact he waits for a treat now so he knows when he's being good!! Yes I do use a flexi lead but always have it pulled in if I am in a situation where he is likely to be agressive. Will think about the shorter strong lead though. Am still trying to find a behaviourist/trainer that understands the "terrier mind"!! also one that understands that as a rescue dog I don't really know Pepe's background. |
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| Tafia | Jun 17 2009, 07:52 PM Post #7 |
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Total Gas Bag!
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I know that they're hugely convenient but it's impossible to control a dog using a flexi, even when it's on the short option. Edited by Tafia, Jun 17 2009, 07:53 PM.
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| Linda & Fred | Jun 17 2009, 08:17 PM Post #8 |
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Chatterbox
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Fred used to like jumping up at people (so happy to be able to say 'Fred used to'!!) and a few times did it to toddlers and knocked them over. Worse, when mum picked them up, he'd jump up and nip. Still haven't been able to stop him wanting to bite living things I pick up, but we manage that. SoI found a toy he loved, that he absolutely had to have, and would do anything for. I only let him play with it when he's out on a walk, and I control it, I carry it, but when he has it, boy, do we have fun. It came out when we approached 'danger' ie kids. I'd wave it around, tease him a bit (not too much), then, as danger passed, his attention tightly on the toy, I'd throw it for him to chase, which is what he loves. Secondary to that he loves carrying it around and making it go 'squeak squeak squeak'. Now, we don't need it to keep his attention from danger as he's calmed down, plus, the appearance of 'kids' tels Fred it's time to play with SQUEAKY!!' And thank you Tafia for your kind words, sometimes I think I didn't help Fred to calm down as much as put up with him until he calmed down! |
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| Laura | Aug 25 2009, 11:55 AM Post #9 |
One of the regulars
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Ooh, just reading thread's I've missed and saw this, Sally did this once, she followed my toddler cousin around, never took her eyes off him, let him stroke her and even lean on her when he got a bit wobbly (under VERY close supervision, and only because her 'leave' command is faultless) then when his dad picked him up she tried to grab the toddlers clothes. Anyone know why they do this? Meg gets over excited and pounces on Sally if I've been carrying Sal and then put her down. (But Meg does a lot of things which can't be explained!) |
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| Tafia | Aug 25 2009, 02:31 PM Post #10 |
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Total Gas Bag!
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It's an ego thing according to some theories, picking the toddler/other dog up elevates them in status which might not suit the original dogs world view. Theories aren't scientific fact so their value depends whether or not they fit into your own world view - this explanation fits mine - others might feel differently! |
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| Linda & Fred | Aug 25 2009, 04:10 PM Post #11 |
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Chatterbox
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I think it's the chase/prey instinct. I can pick something up and move it sideways so it's not even above his head and he'll want to bite it. I don't think it's ego with Fred, as he'll bite a dog if it jumps up even to a level below him. Life is just sooooo exciting when you're a Fred. |
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| Tafia | Aug 25 2009, 07:34 PM Post #12 |
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Total Gas Bag!
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Quite funny that this thread should pop up again today. This afternoon I bumped into a dog walking friend who mentioned that this weekend he's got someone's dogs staying with him this coming weekend, one of the dogs is an entire male. He's had them to stay before but Matthew mentioned how much more interested other dogs (male/females -entire/not) were in this dog. Because he's always had spayed/neutured dogs it had come as a bit of a shock to him. |
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